First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[ryson357]

Changes aren’t good for BoS...

https://www.firstgroup.com/somerset...es-somerset-announce-february-service-changes

 

[CD]

Changes aren’t good for BoS...

https://www.firstgroup.com/somerset...es-somerset-announce-february-service-changes

Think you mean not good for BoS passengers?

Especially for Yeovil. I knew about the withdrawal of the 57 and 59 and about reductions to frequencies of late afternoon services. But the cuts from hourly to 90 minutes on 54 and 77 came as a very unpleasant surprise.

 

[ryson357]

*from BoS

 

[NorthernSpirit]

60914 was on the same service today but only saw the o/s. Full repaint including Halifax fleetnames

Saw another one in Morley on Saturday, which still had the West Of England branding appiled alongside of the Leeds branding. The FWoE branding is/was visible on the offside which has since had advertising frames fitted to obscure the previous branding.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Think you mean not good for BoS passengers?

Especially for Yeovil. I knew about the withdrawal of the 57 and 59 and about reductions to frequencies of late afternoon services. But the cuts from hourly to 90 minutes on 54 and 77 came as a very unpleasant surprise.

Quite a depressing picture and perhaps not entirely unexpected. The drop in passenger figures on a Saturday pm has been noticeable though the 54/77 changes are more surprising.

Wouldn’t be entirely surprised if more of the ex Kernow Eclipses head away.

 

[THarris123]

Quite a depressing picture and perhaps not entirely unexpected. The drop in passenger figures on a Saturday pm has been noticeable though the 54/77 changes are more surprising.

Wouldn’t be entirely surprised if more of the ex Kernow Eclipses head away.

What will operate 54 and 77 then? From my count they'll be reducing the fleet by 5. I'd probably say that the leased vehicles will go and maybe the darts (not Yeovil ones though)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What will operate 54 and 77 then? From my count they'll be reducing the fleet by 5. I'd probably say that the leased vehicles will go and maybe the darts (not Yeovil ones though)

The 54/77 could be operated by Darts or e200s - cheaper to run and not unknown on either route.

 

[freetoview33]

This is where we are seeing the impacts of DDA, in years gone by Somerset would have got a cascaded fleet from elsewhere. But due to the massive fleet replacement that has gone on due to DDA, there aren't any to cascade, which leaves two options, cut routes or buy more buses (Which is too expensive, for a weak operation like Somerset, which has pushed some marginal routes into the red. Unfortunately it is a vicious circle, that because of reduced services, less people will get what buses are left pushing them down too. What with councils cutting most subsides too, making the cost of routes more expensive again, it has been a difficult mix.

What is the answer? I don't know, it is so difficult in Somerset, I'd love to say yeah have loads of buses but lets face it without some major shift and some major investment it won't happen. Even if it did I doubt it could be profitable.

The situation might improve once we have hit a low point, in the next few years, once there are a bigger influx of "Used" buses around.

 

[90sWereBetter]

The latest Dart to head to Essex is 42968, being prepped for repaint at Mardens in Benfleet. Seems to be a pretty random selection of Darts, like the ones that went to Lowestoft a couple of years ago.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The latest Dart to head to Essex is 42968, being prepped for repaint at Mardens in Benfleet. Seems to be a pretty random selection of Darts, like the ones that went to Lowestoft a couple of years ago.

Better described as a seemingly random selection of Darts - however, they will often look at things like.... MOT dates due, recent capital expenditure, etc rather than a nice numerical sequence. After all, when all is said and done, they're getting X number of 2005/6 Darts - the individual fleet numbers are not really important.

Wonder if the ones recently withdrawn in Bristol are also heading that way?

 

[vicbury]

As I mentioned last week, Bath seem to be sending their worst Darts. If you look through the other photos of 42968 on Flickr you can see the trails of smoke around the exhaust from where it has a dodgy engine.

 

[carlberry]

This is where we are seeing the impacts of DDA, in years gone by Somerset would have got a cascaded fleet from elsewhere. But due to the massive fleet replacement that has gone on due to DDA, there aren't any to cascade, which leaves two options, cut routes or buy more buses (Which is too expensive, for a weak operation like Somerset, which has pushed some marginal routes into the red. Unfortunately it is a vicious circle, that because of reduced services, less people will get what buses are left pushing them down too. What with councils cutting most subsides too, making the cost of routes more expensive again, it has been a difficult mix.

What is the answer? I don't know, it is so difficult in Somerset, I'd love to say yeah have loads of buses but lets face it without some major shift and some major investment it won't happen. Even if it did I doubt it could be profitable.

The situation might improve once we have hit a low point, in the next few years, once there are a bigger influx of "Used" buses around.

The impact from DDA has already happened, any cuts (or business sells) for DDA would have happened by last December. We've had a year of more purchases since then (possibly not enough and certainly less than the previous two years) which will have created spare vehicles that are either passed around or written off. If the group dosent have enough then Ensign is always a phone call away however an old bus isn't going to suddenly make a route profitable (especially with the big groups), or produce more bus drivers.

 

[Whiteway215]

I haven't seen 42959 or 42968 in the last couple of weeks so wonder if they are on their way as well?

So 42968 has gone and I still haven't seen 959. The departure of Bath Darts has resulted in at least a couple of deckers on the 4. Have heard a few intending passengers sounding very confused that their 4 isn't a single. Today 32283 (looking very tatty in Barbie) and Unibus off the U2 32006 doing the honours on the 4.

 

[freetoview33]

Just saying there are still quite a lot of buses from the early 2000's which are DDA compliant but are getting too old and need to be removed from service. But there are not enough for cascades and First don't want to shell out over and above after a fair few years of investment. Which leaves a lack of buses around. It is still a factor,

 

[Private Baxter]

Quite a depressing picture and perhaps not entirely unexpected. The drop in passenger figures on a Saturday pm has been noticeable though the 54/77 changes are more surprising.

Wouldn’t be entirely surprised if more of the ex Kernow Eclipses head away.

It's disappointing to see that development that took place within BoS earlier in the year hasn't all together paid off and that service levels are again to be cut. Can't blame them for not trying, just a shame it didn't all work out. Must say I am surprised to see long standing service 77 reduced to every 90 mins. I always thought that was stronger and generally survived such cuts. Times have changed I guess. That, and it is no longer run in conjunction with Bristol services.

The latest Dart to head to Essex is 42968, being prepped for repaint at Mardens in Benfleet. Seems to be a pretty random selection of Darts, like the ones that went to Lowestoft a couple of years ago.

These buses have to leave for them to finally be repainted! Wonder what is coming in their place.

 

[Lezlee]

The latest Dart to head to Essex is 42968, being prepped for repaint at Mardens in Benfleet. Seems to be a pretty random selection of Darts, like the ones that went to Lowestoft a couple of years ago.

Just the 4 darts (42895, 42900, 42939, 42968) for now, some of the elderly '02 Solos will be replaced soon. I expect with other cascades. 42895 and 42900 are out on service work already.

 

[freetoview33]

A bit of metrobus related news, the Stoke Gifford Transport Link is now open! Looks like it had a soft opening today.

 

[D2007wsm]

Wonder what is coming in their place.

Probably Streetlite Maxs freed up in Westbury when the rumoured transfer of the A1 B7RLE happens.

 

[THarris123]

The latest Dart to head to Essex is 42968, being prepped for repaint at Mardens in Benfleet. Seems to be a pretty random selection of Darts, like the ones that went to Lowestoft a couple of years ago.

Not really random. 42968 is the only Barbie vehicle in that range. 42939 is a random fleet number to have in Bath so it makes sense to move it to the rest of the batch in Essex. Then 42895 and 42900 are the first darts off the list in Bath (that haven't been repainted). Slightly more sensible in terms of numbering that the Lowestoft transfer. I suspect though this might be the beginning of transfers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's disappointing to see that development that took place within BoS earlier in the year hasn't all together paid off and that service levels are again to be cut. Can't blame them for not trying, just a shame it didn't all work out. Must say I am surprised to see long standing service 77 reduced to every 90 mins. I always thought that was stronger and generally survived such cuts. Times have changed I guess. That, and it is no longer run in conjunction with Bristol services.

These buses have to leave for them to finally be repainted! Wonder what is coming in their place.

I’m always dubious about the impact of the (3)77 not running through to Bristol, as if there were many going from Pensford to Somerton.

Remember that it was traditionally every TWO hours during the 80s and 90s. The real impact of splitting the routes up is that the section from Wells to Street is overbussed because of need to run through to Wells whilst the 376 needs to run to Street.

 

[Private Baxter]

Probably Streetlite Maxs freed up in Westbury when the rumoured transfer of the A1 B7RLE happens.

Besides the 4, I'm trying to figure out what other routes they are allocated to now. They seem to work most 37 boards, but that's about it. They were regulars on the 38 as well, but with that gone, many appear to be spare, so expendable.

I’m always dubious about the impact of the (3)77 not running through to Bristol, as if there were many going from Pensford to Somerton.

Remember that it was traditionally every TWO hours during the 80s and 90s. The real impact of splitting the routes up is that the section from Wells to Street is overbussed because of need to run through to Wells whilst the 376 needs to run to Street.

I'm afraid I don't remember it being every two hours in the 80s and 90s!!
But yes I absolutely agree that finding the balance for Wells to Street services whilst maintaining other connections has not always been easy. And whilst the number of people travelling between Pensford and Somerton no doubt was minimal, (and indeed people doing end to end travel in those days, though I'm sure people did), the Bristol connection certainly strengthened the service. After all, the 377 benefited from the newest, and often state of the art buses, late night services, and even its Sunday service survived long after Bridgwater and Taunton routes had disappeared.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Not really random. 42968 is the only Barbie vehicle in that range. 42939 is a random fleet number to have in Bath so it makes sense to move it to the rest of the batch in Essex. Then 42895 and 42900 are the first darts off the list in Bath (that haven't been repainted). Slightly more sensible in terms of numbering that the Lowestoft transfer. I suspect though this might be the beginning of transfers.

]

...but 42939 was also in Barbie, I posted a Flickr image of it fresh out of Mardens' paintshop earlier in this thread.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

]

...but 42939 was also in Barbie, I posted a Flickr image of it fresh out of Mardens' paintshop earlier in this thread.

I'd be surprised if the livery was a major consideration - four sent - two in urban, two in barbie. There are more important considerations and worrying about consecutive numbers etc doesn't seem to be an issue either (except for those with OCD)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Besides the 4, I'm trying to figure out what other routes they are allocated to now. They seem to work most 37 boards, but that's about it. They were regulars on the 38 as well, but with that gone, many appear to be spare, so expendable.

I'm afraid I don't remember it being every two hours in the 80s and 90s!!
But yes I absolutely agree that finding the balance for Wells to Street services whilst maintaining other connections has not always been easy. And whilst the number of people travelling between Pensford and Somerton no doubt was minimal, (and indeed people doing end to end travel in those days, though I'm sure people did), the Bristol connection certainly strengthened the service. After all, the 377 benefited from the newest, and often state of the art buses, late night services, and even its Sunday service survived long after Bridgwater and Taunton routes had disappeared.

You can find one of the 3 boards may be a Dart if there's an e200 or two missing.

The 376 consisted of an hourly Bristol to Street service with every other one running through to Yeovil; it had state of the art Lynxes 3610-6 though I suggest that it only did so because the Bristol to Street bit was so strong. There was the two hourly 163 (plus a two hourly short 376 Wells to Street to make the 30 min headway. The 377 evening and Sunday services were supported by SCC. When they withdrew the funding, the Sunday service was maintained but ultimately failed. Mind you, they did try the 375 on Sundays a few years ago.....

I suspect that the 377 only ever had state of the art vehicles because it ran through to Bristol and would never have supported that level of investment (and neither would the 375 for that matter). Once split, it had the lovely yet venerable 66106-8 in later years! I know that Webberbus 37/38 may have clouded the issue a bit but the 375/7 would never have justified the modern fleet it enjoyed (essentially cross subsidised by the good bit of the 376) and probably not the hourly service either. There would be more passengers than those days (courtesy of ENCTS) but the remuneration level is so poor, they probably can't justify the resources employed.

 

[D2007wsm]

Besides the 4, I'm trying to figure out what other routes they are allocated to now. They seem to work most 37 boards, but that's about it. They were regulars on the 38 as well, but with that gone, many appear to be spare, so expendable.

The Maxs could be swapped for regular Streetlites from another depot? To run on other Bath services such as the 1? I'm sure they could be useful for HG to use on something which requires extra capacity which is Streetlite operated.

 

[Private Baxter]

You can find one of the 3 boards may be a Dart if there's an e200 or two missing.

The 376 consisted of an hourly Bristol to Street service with every other one running through to Yeovil; it had state of the art Lynxes 3610-6 though I suggest that it only did so because the Bristol to Street bit was so strong. There was the two hourly 163 (plus a two hourly short 376 Wells to Street to make the 30 min headway. The 377 evening and Sunday services were supported by SCC. When they withdrew the funding, the Sunday service was maintained but ultimately failed. Mind you, they did try the 375 on Sundays a few years ago.....

I suspect that the 377 only ever had state of the art vehicles because it ran through to Bristol and would never have supported that level of investment (and neither would the 375 for that matter). Once split, it had the lovely yet venerable 66106-8 in later years! I know that Webberbus 37/38 may have clouded the issue a bit but the 375/7 would never have justified the modern fleet it enjoyed (essentially cross subsidised by the good bit of the 376) and probably not the hourly service either. There would be more passengers than those days (courtesy of ENCTS) but the remuneration level is so poor, they probably can't justify the resources employed.

That was pretty much the point I was trying to make, apologies for not making it clear enough! However I will point out that of the three south bound services (29, 75, 77), from my observation, the Yeovil one has always seemed the strongest, regardless of northbound connections.
To continue your history into the 00s, the 376 between Bristol and Wells became a half hourly service in 2004, continuing to Yeovil as 377 every hour much as it had always done, whilst the other terminated at Wells, though interworked with the 163 to Bridgwater though was not an official through service. B10BLEs continued to be used on 376/377, whilst older vehicles were initially used to cover the additional boards, those which continued to Bridgwater. The B7RLEs (66716-26) arrived late 2004 and so took over all services including 163, until mid 2005 when the three services became two long through services. 376 Bristol to Yeovil (as it had been in the 90s) and 375 Bristol to Bridgwater. As a result customers at the southern ends of each route enjoyed better buses, but with the eventual splitting of both services a few years ago, older buses once again took over.

 

[Whiteway215]

You can find one of the 3 boards may be a Dart if there's an e200 or two missing.
.

There is nearly always one Dart on the 3 and of course they run the 171 although not for much longer of course.

 

[swifty]

Besides the 4, I'm trying to figure out what other routes they are allocated to now. They seem to work most 37 boards, but that's about it. They were regulars on the 38 as well, but with that gone, many appear to be spare, so expendable.

I only tend to see the ALX400s on the 37 these days, I didn’t realise Darts still
Put in an appearance?

On the subject of the 37 does anyone know how long the ~7.45 journey from Hanham to Bath has been duplicated?

I’ve been seeing various Westbury based buses heading out of Keynsham not in service since early October to pick up service in Hanham but lately it’s been deckers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I only tend to see the ALX400s on the 37 these days, I didn’t realise Darts still
Put in an appearance?

On the subject of the 37 does anyone know how long the ~7.45 journey from Hanham to Bath has been duplicated?

I’ve been seeing various Westbury based buses heading out of Keynsham not in service since early October to pick up service in Hanham but lately it’s been deckers.

Saw 42925 on the 37 in Bristol about two weeks ago.

That morning run has been duplicated for a while? Think it takes a lot for Oldfield School

 

[vicbury]

The Maxs could be swapped for regular Streetlites from another depot? To run on other Bath services such as the 1? I'm sure they could be useful for HG to use on something which requires extra capacity which is Streetlite operated.

Streetlite Maxes to Bristol for the 8/9 or 24 and shorter Streetlites to Bath for the 4?