First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[Private Baxter]

Thought the scanias were going on 903

 

[D2007wsm]

Thought the scanias were going on 903

That's what drivers were saying the other week. It was in The Word today there being used on the 172-174 temporarily

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well.... you can't turn your back for a second and it all begins to change.

I confess I was a little sceptical on the idea of deckers going onto the 172-4, given that it was only a year or so that the Eclipses were refurbished and repainted. The re-route of the 173 did add more credence to it. It's a busy corridor but I never thought I'd see the day when Wells was largely a decker depot!!

However, the bigger surprise is the D1-D3 and especially the increase of the (267/272) to half hourly. That's going to be interesting how that interworks, given that there's only two buses per hour from Trowbridge/Westbury but four buses from Bath to Frome and Melksham. However, it is quite surprising given that the 267 has seemed quite vulnerable. I had half expected that the 267 could get chopped, allowing the 272 to get doubled using the same resources. Melksham is experiencing some substantial growth so thought that might happen but both services getting doubled..... stunned.

Given that they've seen off Wessex (largely), agreed a mutually acceptable arrangement with RATP and Abus, and Crosville and Webberbus have imploded, perhaps thoughts have turned to Faresaver? Perhaps a hope that they'll retreat onto the X31/X34, happy with a decent business on those?

The future of Streetdecks at Wells, Scania deckers on trial.... it becomes more intriguing by the day!

ps Tom - the former Westbury Eclipses now at MH might look rather shabby (esp those in Barbie) but I've been on a few recently (66937/8/9, 66885, 66731) and whilst cosmetically they're tired, they've very few rattles and seem to go well.

 

[freetoview33]

Well.... you can't turn your back for a second and it all begins to change.

I confess I was a little sceptical on the idea of deckers going onto the 172-4, given that it was only a year or so that the Eclipses were refurbished and repainted. The re-route of the 173 did add more credence to it. It's a busy corridor but I never thought I'd see the day when Wells was largely a decker depot!!

However, the bigger surprise is the D1-D3 and especially the increase of the (267/272) to half hourly. That's going to be interesting how that interworks, given that there's only two buses per hour from Trowbridge/Westbury but four buses from Bath to Frome and Melksham. However, it is quite surprising given that the 267 has seemed quite vulnerable. I had half expected that the 267 could get chopped, allowing the 272 to get doubled using the same resources. Melksham is experiencing some substantial growth so thought that might happen but both services getting doubled..... stunned.

Given that they've seen off Wessex (largely), agreed a mutually acceptable arrangement with RATP and Abus, and Crosville and Webberbus have imploded, perhaps thoughts have turned to Faresaver? Perhaps a hope that they'll retreat onto the X31/X34, happy with a decent business on those?

The future of Streetdecks at Wells, Scania deckers on trial.... it becomes more intriguing by the day!

ps Tom - the former Westbury Eclipses now at MH might look rather shabby (esp those in Barbie) but I've been on a few recently (66937/8/9, 66885, 66731) and whilst cosmetically they're tired, they've very few rattles and seem to go well.

You have suggested for a while that if any service would be increased it would have been the (272). But I agree the 267 is an odd one as we were thinking that First might have dropped that route.

 

[Private Baxter]

Well.... you can't turn your back for a second and it all begins to change.

I confess I was a little sceptical on the idea of deckers going onto the 172-4, given that it was only a year or so that the Eclipses were refurbished and repainted. The re-route of the 173 did add more credence to it. It's a busy corridor but I never thought I'd see the day when Wells was largely a decker depot!!

However, the bigger surprise is the D1-D3 and especially the increase of the (267/272) to half hourly. That's going to be interesting how that interworks, given that there's only two buses per hour from Trowbridge/Westbury but four buses from Bath to Frome and Melksham. However, it is quite surprising given that the 267 has seemed quite vulnerable. I had half expected that the 267 could get chopped, allowing the 272 to get doubled using the same resources. Melksham is experiencing some substantial growth so thought that might happen but both services getting doubled..... stunned.

Given that they've seen off Wessex (largely), agreed a mutually acceptable arrangement with RATP and Abus, and Crosville and Webberbus have imploded, perhaps thoughts have turned to Faresaver? Perhaps a hope that they'll retreat onto the X31/X34, happy with a decent business on those?

The future of Streetdecks at Wells, Scania deckers on trial.... it becomes more intriguing by the day!

ps Tom - the former Westbury Eclipses now at MH might look rather shabby (esp those in Barbie) but I've been on a few recently (66937/8/9, 66885, 66731) and whilst cosmetically they're tired, they've very few rattles and seem to go well.

It is certainly a surprising turn of events, and certainly didn't expect to see deckers on 172/3/4 so soon. As you say Wells will be virtually a Decker depot, with just a few held back for 126, and as I suggested perhaps a few single boards within the 172/3/4 loop. But are Bath (Westbury) definitely getting a selection of 69437-48/57-8 or is that just speculation at this stage? It was of course long hoped they would work 265 though As we know streetlite maxes were ultimately the preferred vehicle. But if so they would work well alongside 69500-11.
After several years of decline in Wiltshire, and speculation as to the future of its bus services, it is good to see these improvements alongside a little investment. I hope it proves successful.
So with Bath B9s heading to Wells, and the spare e400s working there in the interim, could those buses eventually find a permanent home on X39 perhaps?

 

[Private Baxter]

It will be interesting to see how 36813 (or whatever it is) compares to streetdecks on 376 as I don't think they have been as successul as First will have liked. Certainly they lose time on route so curious to see whether an e400 can make any of that time up.

 

[Private Baxter]

One more thing... (for now)
Dinder might be fun on a B9.

 

[D2007wsm]

The B9s for Wells may not be from Bath, the X39 B9s are supposed to be having work done as part of a grant or reengined are they not. Perhaps they may come from LH? As mentioned on earlier posts, HG ex London B7s have transferred across all ready.

Westbury are getting the ex A1 B7s, perhaps with some of Wells newer 69*** to make up the numbers. Might some of the ex Wells B7RLEs find there way to Marlborough Street to replace older ones?

And which ones will be kept for the 126?

 

[Private Baxter]

The B9s for Wells may not be from Bath, the X39 B9s are supposed to be having work done as part of a grant or reengined are they not. Perhaps they may come from LH? As mentioned on earlier posts, HG ex London B7s have transferred across all ready.

Westbury are getting the ex A1 B7s, perhaps with some of Wells newer 69*** to make up the numbers. Might some of the ex Wells B7RLEs find there way to Marlborough Street to replace older ones?

And which ones will be kept for the 126?

All reasonable questions, and true enough they might not be the Bath B9s, partly for the reason you give. As for what stays for 126, who knows whether 66720/6 will stay, or if all boards will become the newer versions, thus sending the 54 plates away. So many possibilities it is really hard to say either way. One thing did strike me though; as much as I love the route branding and the diverse range of liveries across the region, it really does cause a fair bit of hassle doesn't it!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The B9s for Wells may not be from Bath, the X39 B9s are supposed to be having work done as part of a grant or reengined are they not. Perhaps they may come from LH? As mentioned on earlier posts, HG ex London B7s have transferred across all ready.

Westbury are getting the ex A1 B7s, perhaps with some of Wells newer 69*** to make up the numbers. Might some of the ex Wells B7RLEs find there way to Marlborough Street to replace older ones?

And which ones will be kept for the 126?

Fair points and ones that sprang to mind.

Perhaps three of Wells 2009 ones can stay for 126 and three more to MH for the 178 (and retain ME identity?). I was wondering if we may see all the older Eclipses bar the Bath 5 examples head elsewhere.

Surely the 903 B9s might be in line for a refurb, so possible ME candidates. They need it.

 

[Private Baxter]

Fair points and ones that sprang to mind.

Perhaps three of Wells 2009 ones can stay for 126 and three more to MH for the 178 (and retain ME identity?). I was wondering if we may see all the older Eclipses bar the Bath 5 examples head elsewhere.

Surely the 903 B9s might be in line for a refurb, so possible ME candidates. They need it.

They are actually very good suggestions. Those 903 B9s must surely be coming off soon and looking for a home.
And 178 for a few WS B7s good shout also. I can't imagine repainting these buses is particularly cheap, so if some can be redeployed in the same livery then that's a good thing.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Ive just checked the Allocation board in Lawrence Hill and today former Hengrove B7s 32336/7/43/4/7 are working on LH/MH routes

On Wednesday I saw 32334, 32336 and 32338 all on 3/4s.

Oddly the 78/79 was all deckers too. I had 37019 on the 79, and in the opposite direction heading into Bristol by Filton College was 32288 on the 78. 32690 was also out on the 78 earlier on in the day.

Other interesting workings from Wednesday include ex-Glasgow 32545 on the 36, along with ex-Weston 47570, 37348 on the 70 (how deckers don't topple over turning right into Chesterfield Road from Ashley Hill is beyond me!) and 37336 on the 82.

Also, nothing out of the ordinary but 37600 was on a northbound 75 at the Haymarket at around 15.30, absolutely rammed to the rafters. Not sure if there had been a delay somewhere but it just shows how important the 75/76 is!

PS: apologies for the no show from me of late; must admit I've been lurking in the background reading the latest re Wells/Bath/Westbury!

 

[vicbury]

Fair points and ones that sprang to mind.

Perhaps three of Wells 2009 ones can stay for 126 and three more to MH for the 178 (and retain ME identity?). I was wondering if we may see all the older Eclipses bar the Bath 5 examples head elsewhere.

Surely the 903 B9s might be in line for a refurb, so possible ME candidates. They need it.

Moving the B9s from the 903 to the Wells routes would make sense. However, as I cynically suggested earlier in the month, maybe First will take the grant to re-engine the B9s on the X39 and then move them onto the Wells routes, allowing Scanias to come onto the X39. To me, it would not seem right that these two corridors have similar aged buses because the Bristol-Bath corridor must surely be more profitable??

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Moving the B9s from the 903 to the Wells routes would make sense. However, as I cynically suggested earlier in the month, maybe First will take the grant to re-engine the B9s on the X39 and then move them onto the Wells routes, allowing Scanias to come onto the X39. To me, it would not seem right that these two corridors have similar aged buses because the Bristol-Bath corridor must surely be more profitable??

I had thought that the Scanias would end up on the X39 but then the re-engine announcement came!

Thinking of it, I guess DDs on the Norton corridor does allow for further growth and it makes a change from a few years ago when it was only every 20 mins.

Even at every 15 mins, we had short Darts (42552 etc) on the 184 and short Streetlites on the 178/379. Now we need deckers!!!

 

[vicbury]

I had thought that the Scanias would end up on the X39 but then the re-engine announcement came!

Thinking of it, I guess DDs on the Norton corridor does allow for further growth and it makes a change from a few years ago when it was only every 20 mins.

Even at every 15 mins, we had short Darts (42552 etc) on the 184 and short Streetlites on the 178/379. Now we need deckers!!!

It's great to see that First is growing on the Norton corridor, which should be happening given all the housing growth in the local area. I am surprised that none of the bus companies seem to be exploiting housing growth in Keynsham, which is the other focus of house building in BANES (outside of Bath).

I have to say I am very pleased to see B9s heading to Norton / Wells and I look forward to a trip on one (hopefully on a 173).

 

[D2007wsm]

All reasonable questions, and true enough they might not be the Bath B9s, partly for the reason you give. As for what stays for 126, who knows whether 66720/6 will stay, or if all boards will become the newer versions, thus sending the 54 plates away. So many possibilities it is really hard to say either way. One thing did strike me though; as much as I love the route branding and the diverse range of liveries across the region, it really does cause a fair bit of hassle doesn't it!

Whatever B7RLEs are left in Wells would of course remain in Mendip Explorer or in the case of 66726 Badgerline.

If they were moved on mass to somewhere else and used on the same set of services the base purple could be kept. Just strip off the gold Mendip Explorer vinys and replace with new branding. A cheaper solution to adding a brand, than a complete rebrand.


The ex Severn Express B7 has been running round in unbranded purple for long enough, it could be tried using this vehicle.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Whatever B7RLEs are left in Wells would of course remain in Mendip Explorer or in the case of 66726 Badgerline.

If they were moved on mass to somewhere else and used on the same set of services the base purple could be kept. Just strip off the gold Mendip Explorer vinys and replace with new branding. A cheaper solution to adding a brand, than a complete rebrand.


The ex Severn Express B7 has been running round in unbranded purple for long enough, it could be tried using this vehicle.

Purple? I thought it was blue! I just thought 32688 was running around waiting for repaint or pastures new though could be a spare for Wells?

It's great to see that First is growing on the Norton corridor, which should be happening given all the housing growth in the local area. I am surprised that none of the bus companies seem to be exploiting housing growth in Keynsham, which is the other focus of house building in BANES (outside of Bath).

I have to say I am very pleased to see B9s heading to Norton / Wells and I look forward to a trip on one (hopefully on a 173).

Oddly, Keynsham has proved to be a difficult market. The 42 was withdrawn as was the 38. The 17 was reduced. The 349 is poorly marketed with increasingly shabby Spectras.

 

[Private Baxter]

Oddly the 78/79 was all deckers too. I had 37019 on the 79, and in the opposite direction heading into Bristol by Filton College was 32288 on the 78. 32690 was also out on the 78 earlier on in the day.
!

Though hardly uncommon to see deckers on 78, it does appear that, along with 79 it has become the latest route to be converted following the recent transfers of 66719/28/30/885/938, and the arrival of ex London B7s from Hengrove.

 

[Private Baxter]

Purple? I thought it was blue! I just thought 32688 was running around waiting for repaint or pastures new though could be a spare for Wells?

All perception of course but I would have definitely have said blue as well. Again, good suggestion for 32688.

 

[baza585]

Well.... you can't turn your back for a second and it all begins to change.

I confess I was a little sceptical on the idea of deckers going onto the 172-4, given that it was only a year or so that the Eclipses were refurbished and repainted. The re-route of the 173 did add more credence to it. It's a busy corridor but I never thought I'd see the day when Wells was largely a decker depot!!

However, the bigger surprise is the D1-D3 and especially the increase of the (267/272) to half hourly. That's going to be interesting how that interworks, given that there's only two buses per hour from Trowbridge/Westbury but four buses from Bath to Frome and Melksham. However, it is quite surprising given that the 267 has seemed quite vulnerable. I had half expected that the 267 could get chopped, allowing the 272 to get doubled using the same resources. Melksham is experiencing some substantial growth so thought that might happen but both services getting doubled..... stunned.

Given that they've seen off Wessex (largely), agreed a mutually acceptable arrangement with RATP and Abus, and Crosville and Webberbus have imploded, perhaps thoughts have turned to Faresaver? Perhaps a hope that they'll retreat onto the X31/X34, happy with a decent business on those?

I share the surprise of you and others at this development. I just wonder if the problem is concentrated on certain journeys in and out of Bath, so it may be a partial replacement of the B7RLEs with deckers rather than a complete replacement. Having B9TLs on the 376 would also make sense in giving WS a consistent decker fleet and the WS Streetdecks could then go back to city work which they are frankly more suited to. I don't get to Bath all that often but I haven't noticed the Norton corridor getting overloaded, though I accept that I'm rarely there at peak times. They appeared to have been route testing 36813 down to Glastonbury which suggests use on the 376 as well.

To back that up, WS having enough saloons to run all the evening services on the 172-4 at least would also seem sensible. We all seem to be assuming no change to timetables; if the 172-4 is going all decker, maybe the 172 might then get cut back to hourly, making a 20 minute frequency out of Bath (a bit like FWoE did on the 376 which was going to be increased in frequency to 3bph with Streetlites until the Streetdecks appeared instead). Just a thought!

Given FSA's lack of profitability as per the latest statutory accounts, I'm a tad surprised by the Wiltshire expansion as well, but those routes have certainly been neglected in the past and it is good to see First on the front foot.

If FWoE has any more spare deckers, could Hoeford have some to replace the 3270x EL bodied Tridents (V &W reg.), which are non-DDA and were absolute sheds when they arrived from Bristol back in 2012, and unlike a good wine, have not improved with age. They are frankly an embarrassment.

 

[g4mby]

Purple? I thought it was blue!

Two pictures of 32688 after it was debranded:

Blue - https://flic.kr/p/UkQQs8
Purple - https://flic.kr/p/ZnUsqK

I guess it depends on who's taking the photo.

 

[freetoview33]

Just seen 66940 on the 6 totally rammed.

 

[father_jack]

Just seen 66940 on the 6 totally rammed.

Your problem there is a lot of passengers will only be going to Lawrence Hill or even Church Road where they'll get off on Whitehall Road and cut through on foot. They get the first bus that comes along. The biggest "victims" of this practice are the 44 and 45- which will leave genuine Hanham /Longwell Green passengers at the Horsefair, Old Market and Lawfords Gate but have seats empty by the Wetherspoons in Church Road.

 

[freetoview33]

Your problem there is a lot of passengers will only be going to Lawrence Hill or even Church Road where they'll get off on Whitehall Road and cut through on foot. They get the first bus that comes along. The biggest "victims" of this practice are the 44 and 45- which will leave genuine Hanham /Longwell Green passengers at the Horsefair, Old Market and Lawfords Gate but have seats empty by the Wetherspoons in Church Road.

This was up near speedwell. Heading to Kingswood

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This was up near speedwell. Heading to Kingswood

It is rare for an Eclipse on there (though it was, of course, home to Lynxes, Verdes and B10BLEs a few years ago). 66937 was working the 42 the other day though!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I share the surprise of you and others at this development. I just wonder if the problem is concentrated on certain journeys in and out of Bath, so it may be a partial replacement of the B7RLEs with deckers rather than a complete replacement. Having B9TLs on the 376 would also make sense in giving WS a consistent decker fleet and the WS Streetdecks could then go back to city work which they are frankly more suited to. I don't get to Bath all that often but I haven't noticed the Norton corridor getting overloaded, though I accept that I'm rarely there at peak times. They appeared to have been route testing 36813 down to Glastonbury which suggests use on the 376 as well.

To back that up, WS having enough saloons to run all the evening services on the 172-4 at least would also seem sensible. We all seem to be assuming no change to timetables; if the 172-4 is going all decker, maybe the 172 might then get cut back to hourly, making a 20 minute frequency out of Bath (a bit like FWoE did on the 376 which was going to be increased in frequency to 3bph with Streetlites until the Streetdecks appeared instead). Just a thought!

Given FSA's lack of profitability as per the latest statutory accounts, I'm a tad surprised by the Wiltshire expansion as well, but those routes have certainly been neglected in the past and it is good to see First on the front foot.

If FWoE has any more spare deckers, could Hoeford have some to replace the 3270x EL bodied Tridents (V &W reg.), which are non-DDA and were absolute sheds when they arrived from Bristol back in 2012, and unlike a good wine, have not improved with age. They are frankly an embarrassment.

People do seem to have a complaint about the Streetdecks. Granted, they don't have the performance of a B7RLE but having compared the ones in Bristol, there's not much performance wise in it between them and an ADL e400. The ADL body is better though. However, I wonder if ultimately JF will want to ship out the Streetdecks to other opcos and just have e400s of both Scania and ADL origin?

I can't see the 172 being cut back to hourly; the 15 min headway has been one of the positive moves to generate growth on the corridor, and you will have a rather poor service for Paulton (where much of the new development is), plus trying to maintain the even half hourly headway from Wells, though I appreciate that is less of a consideration. The peak journeys are pretty full and there is the odd bit of standing though only from Odd Down. However, thinking a bit more on it, perhaps the continued growth means that they are looking to create capacity in advance of problems being experienced so perhaps it is a sensible move.

FSA's lack of profitability is surprising but perhaps some of that was the Crosville issue and I wonder how much was inter Opco or central recharges - think it's difficult to really ascertain the true picture purely on the published results. Certainly, it does look like they've turned their attention eastwards now that Wessex have been largely neutered and Webberbus/Crosville put out of the picture.

The old FHD Tridents are perhaps due for the chop though perhaps it will depend on what stays/goes when the Brock College stuff winds down?

 

[Private Baxter]

I share the surprise of you and others at this development. I just wonder if the problem is concentrated on certain journeys in and out of Bath, so it may be a partial replacement of the B7RLEs with deckers rather than a complete replacement. Having B9TLs on the 376 would also make sense in giving WS a consistent decker fleet and the WS Streetdecks could then go back to city work which they are frankly more suited to. I don't get to Bath all that often but I haven't noticed the Norton corridor getting overloaded, though I accept that I'm rarely there at peak times. They appeared to have been route testing 36813 down to Glastonbury which suggests use on the 376 as well.

To back that up, WS having enough saloons to run all the evening services on the 172-4 at least would also seem sensible. We all seem to be assuming no change to timetables; if the 172-4 is going all decker, maybe the 172 might then get cut back to hourly, making a 20 minute frequency out of Bath (a bit like FWoE did on the 376 which was going to be increased in frequency to 3bph with Streetlites until the Streetdecks appeared instead). Just a thought!

Given FSA's lack of profitability as per the latest statutory accounts, I'm a tad surprised by the Wiltshire expansion as well, but those routes have certainly been neglected in the past and it is good to see First on the front foot.

If FWoE has any more spare deckers, could Hoeford have some to replace the 3270x EL bodied Tridents (V &W reg.), which are non-DDA and were absolute sheds when they arrived from Bristol back in 2012, and unlike a good wine, have not improved with age. They are frankly an embarrassment.

I do also wonder whether it will be a full or partial conversion on 172/3/4 But thinking about the complex way it works, a full conversion would be far simpler.
And though it has only been two years, could the Wells streetdecks really be on the move so soon? Agree that e400s would probably be better just can' believe virtually the entire Wells fleet might be replaced during the next few months. Where could the streetdecks go?
Seeing development in Wiltshire is certainly encouraging and a doubling of 272 could be needed - I have never done the route beyond the boundaries of Bath so don' know but I'll take people's word for it. But I do question as to how long the enhanced 267 will last.

 

[freetoview33]

It is rare for an Eclipse on there (though it was, of course, home to Lynxes, Verdes and B10BLEs a few years ago). 66937 was working the 42 the other day though!

And they just about managed at a 20 min frequency.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I do also wonder whether it will be a full or partial conversion on 172/3/4 But thinking about the complex way it works, a full conversion would be far simpler.
And though it has only been two years, could the Wells streetdecks really be on the move so soon? Agree that e400s would probably be better just can' believe virtually the entire Wells fleet might be replaced during the next few months. Where could the streetdecks go?
Seeing development in Wiltshire is certainly encouraging and a doubling of 272 could be needed - I have never done the route beyond the boundaries of Bath so don' know but I'll take people's word for it. But I do question as to how long the enhanced 267 will last.

The fact that they're trialling an e400 makes interesting reading. Streetdecks seem reasonably popular in Norwich and West Yorkshire but it's a off the cuff remark!!

Melksham is growing massively with new housing on the site of the old school on the Atworth road and also on the Bowerhill side of town too.

 

[Private Baxter]

The fact that they're trialling an e400 makes interesting reading. Streetdecks seem reasonably popular in Norwich and West Yorkshire but it's a off the cuff remark!!

Melksham is growing massively with new housing on the site of the old school on the Atworth road and also on the Bowerhill side of town too.

Good to know. When I lived in Bath the 272 was an hourly service in the hands of darts so good to see bigger buses operating and increased frequency. Maybe that's next to go Decker!!!

As for streetdecks who knows. Norwich did cross my mind too!