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Tommy Walters

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I’ve given up predicting what may appear on the X39. For a flagship route, the 2009 B9s are showing their age.

On the artics, thought 10175/9 were treated, hence losing some seats?
10175/6/8/9 have all lost 4 seats, but this was a long while ago (maybe 2-3 years), I personally don't think anything has been done to any of them given that a) they are still as unreliable as before & b) the aforementioned pollution issues that were listed above!! I reckon the loss of 4 seats in that particular area (opposite the rear door) was more likely to be capacity related than anything else!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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10175/6/8/9 have all lost 4 seats, but this was a long while ago (maybe 2-3 years), I personally don't think anything has been done to any of them given that a) they are still as unreliable as before & b) the aforementioned pollution issues that were listed above!! I reckon the loss of 4 seats in that particular area (opposite the rear door) was more likely to be capacity related than anything else!
Steve White reported 10175/9 being downseated in February.
 

Tommy Walters

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Steve White reported 10175/9 being downseated in February.
I've come across a Flickr photo of 10179, taken in 2016. The 4 seats have already been taken out in that photo, so I'm wondering whether they were removed when the 4 buses in question briefly worked for Kernow at the Eden Project?? I think no one seemed to properly notice that the seats had gone until February of this year!!
 

lx12ddo

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Adding my tuppence to the Scanias on the U routes in Bath.....
I say bring them back! What a treat they'd be, compared with the MMCs. Take off like lightning compared to the ADLs, and man could they climb Bathwick! Still remember the likes of 36813-816 appearing on the route once or twice as late evening subs, in their A1 Airport livery.

It would be really sad to see 10175 go. Petrol guzzler, and spewer, but what an engine. Excluding perhaps 10162/174/183 with a particularly heavy footed driver, it's easily the most consistent for a good journey with plenty of thrash on an artic. Leaky roof 10036/037, as historic as they are, must go before the next torrential rain. They're a bane for so many students, they're going on 20 years old.
 

Whiteway215

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I've often wondered what was the result of the trial with First York Mercedes artic 11111 on Bath Uni services around May this year. Some commentators have said some will be coming to Bath to replace the Volvo artics. Other reliable sources have denied this will ever happen so we are still wondering. Unless someone knows more........?
 

carlberry

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It would be really sad to see 10175 go. Petrol guzzler, and spewer, but what an engine. Excluding perhaps 10162/174/183 with a particularly heavy footed driver, it's easily the most consistent for a good journey with plenty of thrash on an artic.
To be fair if somebody is putting petrol in I'm not surprised the exhaust is dirty!
 

Tommy Walters

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Adding my tuppence to the Scanias on the U routes in Bath.....
I say bring them back! What a treat they'd be, compared with the MMCs. Take off like lightning compared to the ADLs, and man could they climb Bathwick! Still remember the likes of 36813-816 appearing on the route once or twice as late evening subs, in their A1 Airport livery.

It would be really sad to see 10175 go. Petrol guzzler, and spewer, but what an engine. Excluding perhaps 10162/174/183 with a particularly heavy footed driver, it's easily the most consistent for a good journey with plenty of thrash on an artic. Leaky roof 10036/037, as historic as they are, must go before the next torrential rain. They're a bane for so many students, they're going on 20 years old.
I'm pretty certain that they were more popular with the drivers too - might explain those evening subs!!

Interesting your reckoning on the artic fleet, I had 10183 down from uni late yesterday & would agree it is pretty fast in a straight line!! 10162 seems to have caught 10174's ticking disease now unfortunately. I've always stuck by the fact that 10179 is the best machine though, closely followed by 10037 (still the best at getting up Bathwick Hill while on a light load!!). 10175 has a leaking problem as well I'm afraid to say!!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I've come across a Flickr photo of 10179, taken in 2016. The 4 seats have already been taken out in that photo, so I'm wondering whether they were removed when the 4 buses in question briefly worked for Kernow at the Eden Project?? I think no one seemed to properly notice that the seats had gone until February of this year!!
Care to share?

I've often wondered what was the result of the trial with First York Mercedes artic 11111 on Bath Uni services around May this year. Some commentators have said some will be coming to Bath to replace the Volvo artics. Other reliable sources have denied this will ever happen so we are still wondering. Unless someone knows more........?
I'm sure that there must have been something in it. It would seem odd in the extreme to bring a Merc Artic down especially when loadings are beginning to decrease anyway. However, it's a leap from having a trial to it actually happening. However, most will be redundant when the new Optare deckers arrive in York and with a good few years depreciation to get rid of, it would make sense.

Adding my tuppence to the Scanias on the U routes in Bath.....
I say bring them back! What a treat they'd be, compared with the MMCs.
In place of the ADLs could happen but it would be unlikely. However, acting as U1 extras.... some nearly new vehicles that need to earn their corn allocated to workings that operate for a few hours each day, have 16 weeks off and barely work Saturdays? Not when there are other routes that really do need newer deckers.

FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised to see the York Mercs come down and replace the two W regs and the ex Aberdeen kit. 32003 et al will almost certainly go by the summer (but they seem like cockroaches in the apocalypse). Not unknown to see B7TL Geminis on the U2 so they may be the choice for that given that it doesn't enter the CAZ.

Don't know about the Blue Uni vehicles - they might have another year in them but then I wondered if they might get some late model B7TLs (32686) for U5/U6 replacement but with the CAZ, I wonder if B9TLs might ultimately be drafted in?
 

Tommy Walters

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Care to share?


FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised to see the York Mercs come down and replace the two W regs and the ex Aberdeen kit. 32003 et al will almost certainly go by the summer (but they seem like cockroaches in the apocalypse). Not unknown to see B7TL Geminis on the U2 so they may be the choice for that given that it doesn't enter the CAZ.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13310...a-DpZn5J-VyhCSx-WJc79y-WA9ipt-2bjXUM3-2gCpvxy

Very long link, but there it is!!

I reckon the Aberdeen kit will stay, given how significantly nicer they are inside & that most of them are mechanically in better shape. The native batch, especially the ones still with cloth seats are in desperate need of some TLC. I agree with your choice on the B7 Geminis, they seem to end up on the U2 much more often than the 03/53 plate ALX400s. I reckon certainly 32636-8 would be good candidates for that role, along with either 32329/30/38/43 or more likely 32543-5/51/53.

One thing I noted this morning - the Abus DAF was the only agency bus I saw running on the Bath uni routes, anyone know why Faresaver/Arleen/Bath Bus Company have suddenly disappeared?
 

Whiteway215

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I agree 32003 etc are past their sell by date but the rate at which Bath are bashing hell out of the upper decks of their deckers these old ones are certainly needed at the present time! Meanwhile yesterday 30877 was on 37A early morning then spent the rest of the day on U1.
 

Tommy Walters

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I agree 32003 etc are past their sell by date but the rate at which Bath are bashing hell out of the upper decks of their deckers these old ones are certainly needed at the present time! Meanwhile yesterday 30877 was on 37A early morning then spent the rest of the day on U1.
I think the 37A bus is scheduled to go onto the U1 - I've seen on bus times that it's the case (when the 37A bothers to track),and may explain why there is often an older decker on the same U1 duty each day!!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/13310...a-DpZn5J-VyhCSx-WJc79y-WA9ipt-2bjXUM3-2gCpvxy

Very long link, but there it is!!

I reckon the Aberdeen kit will stay, given how significantly nicer they are inside & that most of them are mechanically in better shape. The native batch, especially the ones still with cloth seats are in desperate need of some TLC. I agree with your choice on the B7 Geminis, they seem to end up on the U2 much more often than the 03/53 plate ALX400s. I reckon certainly 32636-8 would be good candidates for that role, along with either 32329/30/38/43 or more likely 32543-5/51/53.

One thing I noted this morning - the Abus DAF was the only agency bus I saw running on the Bath uni routes, anyone know why Faresaver/Arleen/Bath Bus Company have suddenly disappeared?
Thanks for that. Think you're probably right in that the loss of seats is perhaps more to do with increasing capacity.

Should the York ones come down, then most of the current artics will buy the farm.
 

Westonian

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There may be some truth in Whiteway 215's rumour about 3 Scanias transferring from Westbury to Weston ( Post 23441) as rumoured that some or all of Service 126 will transfer from Wells to Weston in January. This would be to provide extra work to Weston depot consequent on likely cuts to Excel services leading to reduction in PVR. This in turn would mean more E400's going from WM to Wells depot and IF all of 126 is transferred to Weston, Wells depot could become all Double Deck in due course. We will know soon enough.
 

TheLastMinute

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There may be some truth in Whiteway 215's rumour about 3 Scanias transferring from Westbury to Weston ( Post 23441) as rumoured that some or all of Service 126 will transfer from Wells to Weston in January. This would be to provide extra work to Weston depot consequent on likely cuts to Excel services leading to reduction in PVR. This in turn would mean more E400's going from WM to Wells depot and IF all of 126 is transferred to Weston, Wells depot could become all Double Deck in due course. We will know soon enough.
Sounds like the cuts to the Excel network could be significant. Are there any rumors about which routes will be hit?
 

Tommy Walters

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Thanks for that. Think you're probably right in that the loss of seats is perhaps more to do with increasing capacity.

Should the York ones come down, then most of the current artics will buy the farm.
Agreed, there are 14 artics currently (when they are all available) & am I right in thinking there are 14 Citaros?? If so then that would make complete sense. The only issue which may have been discussed here before was capacity - is it significantly lower on the Citaros??
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Agreed, there are 14 artics currently (when they are all available) & am I right in thinking there are 14 Citaros?? If so then that would make complete sense. The only issue which may have been discussed here before was capacity - is it significantly lower on the Citaros??
IIRC, there are 15 artics in York but 6 are to remain in the city. The other nine (plus 15/16 Eclipses) will be replaced by the deckers, and will be available for transfer. Hence the rumoured plan that they will head to Bath but only replace the oldest/worst of the B7LAs. The Citaro are 49 seaters as opposed to 52 or 56 in the B7LAs but to be honest, it's more about the standing capacity!
 

Private Baxter

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There may be some truth in Whiteway 215's rumour about 3 Scanias transferring from Westbury to Weston ( Post 23441) as rumoured that some or all of Service 126 will transfer from Wells to Weston in January. This would be to provide extra work to Weston depot consequent on likely cuts to Excel services leading to reduction in PVR. This in turn would mean more E400's going from WM to Wells depot and IF all of 126 is transferred to Weston, Wells depot could become all Double Deck in due course. We will know soon enough.
The suggestion was that one board of 126 would transfer to Weston, as it was a couple of years ago, with the remaining two staying in Wells. Losing the 126 would be disastrous for Wells, leaving them with just Bristol and Bath services
 

TheGrandWazoo

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There may be some truth in Whiteway 215's rumour about 3 Scanias transferring from Westbury to Weston ( Post 23441) as rumoured that some or all of Service 126 will transfer from Wells to Weston in January. This would be to provide extra work to Weston depot consequent on likely cuts to Excel services leading to reduction in PVR. This in turn would mean more E400's going from WM to Wells depot and IF all of 126 is transferred to Weston, Wells depot could become all Double Deck in due course. We will know soon enough.
If that is the case (and we should wait for the confirmation of any plans for the Excel network), it would be extremely disappointing. We've seen a slightly disparate set of services in the Nailsea and Portishead services simplified and improved. In the case of Portishead, overcrowding was apparently the reason for introducing deckers, so it seemed to be a positive move, even with the X7 being truncated.

It's not easy in the industry, as I think most of us recognise. Whilst you hear of 52% rises in patronage in 5 years, it seems some time since there was really positive news. In the last few months, frequency cuts have come on the Discover, Bristol 3/4, 24, Bath 3/3A/4, m1 whilst the X5, 7XP, 179 have all been withdrawn.
 

D2007wsm

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There may be some truth in Whiteway 215's rumour about 3 Scanias transferring from Westbury to Weston ( Post 23441) as rumoured that some or all of Service 126 will transfer from Wells to Weston in January. This would be to provide extra work to Weston depot consequent on likely cuts to Excel services leading to reduction in PVR. This in turn would mean more E400's going from WM to Wells depot and IF all of 126 is transferred to Weston, Wells depot could become all Double Deck in due course. We will know soon enough.
Weston will only be operating some of the 126’s. Some will remain in Wells. So Wells will retain some single decks.

I don’t know if the supposed move of the Scania single decks will be split between Weston and Wells to operate the 126, of course once repainted from Discover to Mendip Explorer. Either some of these, B7RLEs or long Streetlites will need to go to Weston as the short Streetlites will not be big enough.

As far as I am aware, no more E400s will be heading from Weston to Wells. The PVR of the excel network should not be dropping, there may actually be an increase of a couple of vehicles. Weston needs all of the E400s they have, it isn’t uncommon again to see a Streetlite subbing on the X1/X3/X4 to cover an E400. I am yet though to see a Streetlite on an X1x.

Sounds like the cuts to the Excel network could be significant. Are there any rumors about which routes will be hit?
There will be no major cuts to the excel network. It is mainly timetable changes, with a few lightly used journeys withdrawn or terminating at slightly different locations.
 

carlberry

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Weston will only be operating some of the 126’s. Some will remain in Wells. So Wells will retain some single decks.

I don’t know if the supposed move of the Scania single decks will be split between Weston and Wells to operate the 126, of course once repainted from Discover to Mendip Explorer. Either some of these, B7RLEs or long Streetlites will need to go to Weston as the short Streetlites will not be big enough.

As far as I am aware, no more E400s will be heading from Weston to Wells. The PVR of the excel network should not be dropping, there may actually be an increase of a couple of vehicles. Weston needs all of the E400s they have, it isn’t uncommon again to see a Streetlite subbing on the X1/X3/X4 to cover an E400. I am yet though to see a Streetlite on an X1x.


There will be no major cuts to the excel network. It is mainly timetable changes, with a few lightly used journeys withdrawn or terminating at slightly different locations.
Thank you for bringing some sanity to the wild speculation!
 

Tommy Walters

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IIRC, there are 15 artics in York but 6 are to remain in the city. The other nine (plus 15/16 Eclipses) will be replaced by the deckers, and will be available for transfer. Hence the rumoured plan that they will head to Bath but only replace the oldest/worst of the B7LAs. The Citaro are 49 seaters as opposed to 52 or 56 in the B7LAs but to be honest, it's more about the standing capacity!
Would the Citaros be eligible for modification to comply with the Bath CEZ? I'm assuming they're currently Euro 4?
 

lx12ddo

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IIRC, there are 15 artics in York but 6 are to remain in the city. The other nine (plus 15/16 Eclipses) will be replaced by the deckers, and will be available for transfer. Hence the rumoured plan that they will head to Bath but only replace the oldest/worst of the B7LAs. The Citaro are 49 seaters as opposed to 52 or 56 in the B7LAs but to be honest, it's more about the standing capacity!
Well if citaros are due, will be welcome too I'm sure! The last stagecoach (non-artics) ones in London (my main stomping ground) left at the start of the summer - best batch of Citaros to have set foot in London. Absolute tanks. They've been exported somewhere (23101-23113) far and mysterious....
 

Tommy Walters

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Well if citaros are due, will be welcome too I'm sure! The last stagecoach (non-artics) ones in London (my main stomping ground) left at the start of the summer - best batch of Citaros to have set foot in London. Absolute tanks. They've been exported somewhere (23101-23113) far and mysterious....
Funnily enough, the 227 is my local route in south-east London!! I used to regularly catch those Citaros home from school!! We're now stuck with some awful Streetlites (although we still have the 65 plate Citaros on 358). I've heard rumours that 23101-13 were to be converted to left-hand drive and sent back to Germany, which would be a real shame!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Weston will only be operating some of the 126’s. Some will remain in Wells. So Wells will retain some single decks.

I don’t know if the supposed move of the Scania single decks will be split between Weston and Wells to operate the 126, of course once repainted from Discover to Mendip Explorer. Either some of these, B7RLEs or long Streetlites will need to go to Weston as the short Streetlites will not be big enough.

As far as I am aware, no more E400s will be heading from Weston to Wells. The PVR of the excel network should not be dropping, there may actually be an increase of a couple of vehicles. Weston needs all of the E400s they have, it isn’t uncommon again to see a Streetlite subbing on the X1/X3/X4 to cover an E400. I am yet though to see a Streetlite on an X1x.

There will be no major cuts to the excel network. It is mainly timetable changes, with a few lightly used journeys withdrawn or terminating at slightly different locations.
Thank you for that information. It would have been disappointing had any significant reductions to the Excel network.
 

sk688

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This might sound a bit stupid , but what exactly is the history of all the arctics operating on the U1 ?

Are they all 20 years old or are some newer

And also why doesnt the U2 see Arctics ?
 

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