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First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

TheGrandWazoo

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Highway authorities don't like giving extra space to bus stops as all the local residents and businesses complain. And you need the stops ready before the vehicles, people rapidly get annoyed if they are told to sometimes use the middle doors and sometimes not, and even if they are told to use the middle doors then find they're being turfed out in the middle of the road because the stop is obstructed. It's got to be a simple message!

All those problems and more. It would take years and many millions to get sorted.

However, it would be interesting to see if they might be able to be something on the A4. I've long advocated that the bus priority should be better on the Bath Road and it is (allegedly) destined to become an metrobus route.

Whilst on that subject, wonder what the future holds for Abus? The need to have euro VI compliant fleet against an ageing and increasingly dog-eared set of Spectras (and an ageing proprietor) makes me wonder if First may take this on in the next year.
 
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CD

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Highway authorities don't like giving extra space to bus stops as all the local residents and businesses complain. And you need the stops ready before the vehicles, people rapidly get annoyed if they are told to sometimes use the middle doors and sometimes not, and even if they are told to use the middle doors then find they're being turfed out in the middle of the road because the stop is obstructed. It's got to be a simple message!
When the Scanias were on Y1 and T1 some drivers used the middle door some didn't. Quite annoying.
 

Tommy Walters

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Ottery St Mary
All those problems and more. It would take years and many millions to get sorted.

However, it would be interesting to see if they might be able to be something on the A4. I've long advocated that the bus priority should be better on the Bath Road and it is (allegedly) destined to become an metrobus route.

Whilst on that subject, wonder what the future holds for Abus? The need to have euro VI compliant fleet against an ageing and increasingly dog-eared set of Spectras (and an ageing proprietor) makes me wonder if First may take this on in the next year.

I can't honestly see Abus carrying on. They benefited from some extra work in the Autumn this year, providing a Spectra or two as backup on the Bath uni services, but since then it's all been downhill with the loss of their work on the X9 & subsequent sale (?) of the 3 Citaros & presumably the Tempo. With none of their vehicles out at the present moment it's hard to see them ever returning! Shame, as in my experience many of their drivers were very pleasant!

It's also turned out to be a potential blow that 2 (possibly 3) vehicles that could've been converted to Euro 6 were lost in that fire in 2018. That's where their downhill spiral really started!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I can't honestly see Abus carrying on. They benefited from some extra work in the Autumn this year, providing a Spectra or two as backup on the Bath uni services, but since then it's all been downhill with the loss of their work on the X9 & subsequent sale (?) of the 3 Citaros & presumably the Tempo. With none of their vehicles out at the present moment it's hard to see them ever returning! Shame, as in my experience many of their drivers were very pleasant!

It's also turned out to be a potential blow that 2 (possibly 3) vehicles that could've been converted to Euro 6 were lost in that fire in 2018. That's where their downhill spiral really started!

The Tempo went to Mounts Bay Coaches some months ago https://www.flickr.com/photos/peagr...-nBXU8r-nSp5kW-9VmaNu-229bxTR-26giUaL-TQRfCf/
 

freetoview33

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All those problems and more. It would take years and many millions to get sorted.

However, it would be interesting to see if they might be able to be something on the A4. I've long advocated that the bus priority should be better on the Bath Road and it is (allegedly) destined to become an metrobus route.

Whilst on that subject, wonder what the future holds for Abus? The need to have euro VI compliant fleet against an ageing and increasingly dog-eared set of Spectras (and an ageing proprietor) makes me wonder if First may take this on in the next year.
Thing is the A4 thing would tie into a new park and ride at hicks gate and the callington road link. So still not quite as straight forward as it sounds.
 

Tommy Walters

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Ottery St Mary

Thanks for clarifying, a sale I never knew about!

I believe the Citaros and 09 plate Solos are with Cotswold Green now.

I’ve not seen FD02 UKR out in a while which leaves the 5 Spectras in the fleet.

The lowlander last tracked on bustimes in January. Shame if that's gone as it was a surprisingly tidy machine inside! Never realised it was actually donated by Reading Buses following the fire in 2018.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I make it 6 Spectras (YG02FWA-C/YE52FHF/AP53BUS/AP04BUS). Some of these were looking increasingly knackered the last time I saw them (particularly the AP53 one with its bench seating upstairs!).

There's also ex-Lothian/Big Yellow Sightseeing Scania, SN04CPE. This was last seen in warm store at North Somerset Coaches in Nailsea, so I'd presume it's withdrawn & maybe preserved? Doubt any other OpCos would buy it given its non-standard & rather primitive seating layout (bench seats again!), plus the fact that the roof had been reconstructed on it!
 
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swifty

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Thanks for clarifying, a sale I never knew about!



The lowlander last tracked on bustimes in January. Shame if that's gone as it was a surprisingly tidy machine inside! Never realised it was actually donated by Reading Buses following the fire in 2018.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I make it 6 Spectras (YG02FWA-C/YE52FHF/AP53BUS/AP04BUS). Some of these were looking increasingly knackered the last time I saw them (particularly the AP53 one with its bench seating upstairs!).

There's also ex-Lothian/Big Yellow Sightseeing Scania, SN04CPE. This was last seen in warm store at North Somerset Coaches in Nailsea, so I'd presume it's withdrawn & maybe preserved? Doubt any other OpCos would buy it given its non-standard & rather primitive seating layout (bench seats again!), plus the fact that the roof had been reconstructed on it!

You are right it is 6 - I forgot about the 52 plate Spectra!

SN04 CPE could be a good purchase, being a high capacity convertable open top. Abus fitted the Lothian bench seats, they replaced the horrid plastic yellow seats that were fitted when it was converted to open top by SBC. It had been new in full Lothian spec.
 

Buses in Bath

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16 Feb 2020
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246
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Weston, Bath
Thanks for clarifying, a sale I never knew about!



The lowlander last tracked on bustimes in January. Shame if that's gone as it was a surprisingly tidy machine inside! Never realised it was actually donated by Reading Buses following the fire in 2018.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I make it 6 Spectras (YG02FWA-C/YE52FHF/AP53BUS/AP04BUS). Some of these were looking increasingly knackered the last time I saw them (particularly the AP53 one with its bench seating upstairs!).

There's also ex-Lothian/Big Yellow Sightseeing Scania, SN04CPE. This was last seen in warm store at North Somerset Coaches in Nailsea, so I'd presume it's withdrawn & maybe preserved? Doubt any other OpCos would buy it given its non-standard & rather primitive seating layout (bench seats again!), plus the fact that the roof had been reconstructed on it!
What about M645RCP
 

AB93

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13 Apr 2015
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309
I know they tested 39401 << on the bridge and that was fine
Yes, it fit (just) during the testing, but the final signed bridge height is set at 14'1".

As others have said, the rear axle on the gas buses is wider and so they don't fit properly down the guideway.
 
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AB93

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13 Apr 2015
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With the gas buses being higher than the diesel Scanias, what will Marlborough Street use on the 37 school trips as they are too tall? B9s can’t be used either unless a couple of diesel Scanias will be retained to use on the T2 where the Scania used to be pinched from.
The bridge at Willsbridge Station is a mandatory observance of 14'3 - that means B9s should NOT be being used. However, the gas buses would be fine.
I don’t know what Bath use on the 37A, I haven’t seen it.
Whilst a diversion around the bridge may be possible, there may not be the time to do it in both directions. If the bus is pinched off of a South Glos Lynx service, the bus has to be back in time for it to go back on the running board it came off of and swapped back to a B7RLE, Dart or Streetlite for the 178.
37A is a purple U1 E400MMC.

Yes although taller than the diesel Scanias, the gas buses are 14'2" so can still legally go under the bridge. Same height as the E400MMCs which as others have said, Bath use on the 37A trip that goes under it.

I suspect we won't need to see a double decker on the 37 until at least September, now though...!
 

AB93

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The biggest clue is that they were all delivered with metrobus spec interiors!!
Do you mean all as in 36801-7? Aren't the rest in grey eLeather?
I was meaning all to be honest, appreciate most had grey e-leather but that's deliberately so.

It's the same as new 39491/92 have been delivered in metrobus spec so that they can stand in as spares.
Grey e-leather (so effectively just missing the little "m"s off the seats) but everything else is exactly the same as the metrobus ones, red handrails, the pattern of the wooden floor, etc.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Thing is the A4 thing would tie into a new park and ride at hicks gate and the callington road link. So still not quite as straight forward as it sounds.

Callington Road link is probably 10 years away if it ever will happen. I’m talking about changes more immediately that will cover some of the other parts of the route - nothing to stop a bus lane being introduced on the Upper Bristol Road from Newbridge P&R or past the Paintworks or change those stops to accommodate dual door vehicles?
 

martyjon

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19 Feb 2020
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Bristol Area
I've been on a dual door bus and when I needed to alight at a metrobus stop (Hambrooke) and duly standing by the rear door the bus stopped, the driver opened the front doors, I called 'doors please driver' to which the driver replied, 'this in not a metrobus service'.!!!!
 
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freetoview33

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Callington Road link is probably 10 years away if it ever will happen. I’m talking about changes more immediately that will cover some of the other parts of the route - nothing to stop a bus lane being introduced on the Upper Bristol Road from Newbridge P&R or past the Paintworks or change those stops to accommodate dual door vehicles?
I agree and the original plans I don't see were ever workable and even less now, with other developments at Temple Quay. But there is still the lack of plans of how to serve the Temple Quay area with buses, other than increasing the frequency of the 506 and a new service from East Bristol, and maybe a shuttle from Bristol Uni, problem is all the plans I have seen would force the use of single decked buses, which seems to go against the whole Bristol idea of all services being doubles eventually.
 
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Hello, I have recently seen a few photos of the upper decks of the gas buses and I have noticed that they have no handrails! This I find is quite strange and I am wondering why they don’t have them? I’m pretty sure it’s a legal requirement to have handrails on both decks?
 

vicbury

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I agree and the original plans I don't see were ever workable and even less now, with other developments at Temple Quay. But there is still the lack of plans of how to serve the Temple Quay area with buses, other than increasing the frequency of the 506 and a new service from East Bristol, and maybe a shuttle from Bristol Uni, problem is all the plans I have seen would force the use of single decked buses, which seems to go against the whole Bristol idea of all services being doubles eventually.
If only there was such a thing as a high-capacity single decker bus, perhaps one with a bend in the middle... ;)
 

vicbury

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Hello, I have recently seen a few photos of the upper decks of the gas buses and I have noticed that they have no handrails! This I find is quite strange and I am wondering why they don’t have them? I’m pretty sure it’s a legal requirement to have handrails on both decks?
They have grab handles on the seats, which are only really usable if you are walking from the rear towards the front, and not in the other direction! I suspect style has triumphed above practicality and I would not be in the slightest bit surprised if handrails were retrofitted in the future.
 

freetoview33

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If only there was such a thing as a high-capacity single decker bus, perhaps one with a bend in the middle... ;)
The plans are a bit odd to be honest. Considering there are three separate plans, Bristol Uni, Silverthorne Lane, Metrobus and the Joint Spacial plan anyway.

The Uni transport plans (The updated ones as of this January) state they have moved the proposed Temple Quarter stops to allow for "Full size" double deckers but then it directly contradicts it by saying low height double deckers "will easily be able to serve the site" but from what I gather other than the access from either Bath Road or Feeder Road (Which would allow full size buses to be used) they would have to use Avon Street and Gas Lane and use buses that clear 13ft 3! So a bit odd there, but again it mentions they are in advanced discussions with First about how to serve the site.

Another few things there are of interest are planned new bus stops on The Friary, which could be linked to other plans.

I will post the other bit when I read through it, but certainly in years to come the Temple Meads area will change a lot more bus wise
 

freetoview33

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The plans are a bit odd to be honest. Considering there are three separate plans, Bristol Uni, Silverthorne Lane, Metrobus and the Joint Spacial plan anyway.

The Uni transport plans (The updated ones as of this January) state they have moved the proposed Temple Quarter stops to allow for "Full size" double deckers but then it directly contradicts it by saying low height double deckers "will easily be able to serve the site" but from what I gather other than the access from either Bath Road or Feeder Road (Which would allow full size buses to be used) they would have to use Avon Street and Gas Lane and use buses that clear 13ft 3! So a bit odd there, but again it mentions they are in advanced discussions with First about how to serve the site.

Another few things there are of interest are planned new bus stops on The Friary, which could be linked to other plans.

I will post the other bit when I read through it, but certainly in years to come the Temple Meads area will change a lot more bus wise
I know cattle market is 14ft clearance but it does state only single deckers along cattle market.
 

-Colly405-

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Catching up on the dual door discussion, my experience is that often on the m1, the 2nd door isn't properly used, which negates having it.

By this I mean that, particularly at busy stops, there are some drivers who won't open the front door for boarders until everyone who wants to has alighted. So having two doors in those circumstances becomes unnecessary.
 

Tommy Walters

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Catching up on the dual door discussion, my experience is that often on the m1, the 2nd door isn't properly used, which negates having it.

By this I mean that, particularly at busy stops, there are some drivers who won't open the front door for boarders until everyone who wants to has alighted. So having two doors in those circumstances becomes unnecessary.

The same can be said from my experiences on the Bath uni services. On the regular ADL examples, the typical passenger behaviour is to alight from the rear doors only if you're sat downstairs at the back, the front doors usually being used by everyone lighting from upstairs. This can add somewhat to the dwell times, especially at the stops in Oldfield Park. In some cases, the drivers either shut the rear doors after everyone downstairs has got off, or even don't bother using them at all!

However, when Scanias are used, I find that many more people use the rear doors, particularly coming down from the upper deck. This is down to a combination of the rear doors being one window further forward & the metrobus signage instructing passengers to alight through them still being in place.

Lastly, the rear doors are more frequently used on the artics, for obvious reasons. There have still been countless occasions where drivers forget to open the rear door, even though a quick glance at the CCTV would reveal someone standing by them. One occasion even saw a driver not only fail to open the rear door, but also subsequently ignore the frantic bell pushes from the back and drive on, then giving the passengers in question a bunch of excuses and no apology when confronted! Rather unacceptable..
 

CD

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Similar thing happens in Central Bristol on both Brislington and Portway Park & Rides. Instead of people exiting the middle door and passengers joining by the front door at the same time. They exit by both doors causing delay to often an already late running service.
 

freetoview33

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Looking more in depth at metrobus plans for the A4, the proposed route is actually City Centre to Keynsham (not to Bath). So an upgrade of the 349! So yes GW an upgrade of stops along Bath Road, to be fair I think this route should be done soon, as it's not really any major works just an upgrade of existing stops and maybe one or 2 new bus lanes. (And it would benefit more routes)
 

Tommy Walters

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Similar thing happens in Central Bristol on both Brislington and Portway Park & Rides. Instead of people exiting the middle door and passengers joining by the front door at the same time. They exit by both doors causing delay to often an already late running service.

Again, I think this is down to the rear door being too far back from where the stairs are on those ones. Does seem odd how ADL didn't put the rear doors in the same place as on their London examples!
 

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