First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

This perhaps confirms that should Spa uni return in the Autumn & the U5/6 with it, then a new fleet for that may be on the cards. Can't see any of those KP51s returning now.

I don't know about that; they've moved the 2010/1 Eclipses to Bath so something needs to be moved out and as they're sorning the least fuel efficient, those ones have gone.

The Clean Air Zone has been put back to no earlier than Feb 2021 so that takes part of the pressure off. However, who knows what will come back and at what frequencies. Have to say that whoever (was it you?) suggested that Wells' B9s might end up on the U5/U6 might have a good point.

 

[matt_splat]

This perhaps confirms that should Spa uni return in the Autumn & the U5/6 with it, then a new fleet for that may be on the cards. Can't see any of those KP51s returning now.

I'd expect b9s from somewhere for the u5/6

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd expect b9s from somewhere for the u5/6

The Mendip ones with their refurb and USBs are a good call for that

 

[Tommy Walters]

I don't know about that; they've moved the 2010/1 Eclipses to Bath so something needs to be moved out and as they're sorning the least fuel efficient, those ones have gone.

The Clean Air Zone has been put back to no earlier than Feb 2021 so that takes part of the pressure off. However, who knows what will come back and at what frequencies. Have to say that whoever (was it you?) suggested that Wells' B9s might end up on the U5/U6 might have a good point.

Feb 2021 is still not that helpful in terms of Uni term times. It would mean a new fleet would be needed for the 2nd Semester at least. Then there's also the case of replacing all the older vehicles lurking on the U1/2/3!

I do still maintain that the ex-Wells machines would be useful for the U5/6, as you say, the internal spec suits Students to no end! Two more would be needed for a full PVR though. Perhaps a refurb/repaint programme could be on the cards for the MX58 ones, two gaining Spa livery & the rest going into BathCity blue! This is all complete speculation of course..

I am still a little puzzled as to why the 14-plate E400s haven't been moved to Wells as of yet. They're still in operation in Bath, and being longer than those loaned Bristol MMCs, they'd be a little easier to enforce Social Distancing on the Wells routes. Of course, it could be the used of MMCs is fuel related, which is slightly more understandable.

 

[spw24]

Believe several of the Bolton 400s have left Bath possibly for repaint.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Feb 2021 is still not that helpful in terms of Uni term times. It would mean a new fleet would be needed for the 2nd Semester at least. Then there's also the case of replacing all the older vehicles lurking on the U1/2/3!

I do still maintain that the ex-Wells machines would be useful for the U5/6, as you say, the internal spec suits Students to no end! Two more would be needed for a full PVR though. Perhaps a refurb/repaint programme could be on the cards for the MX58 ones, two gaining Spa livery & the rest going into BathCity blue! This is all complete speculation of course..

I am still a little puzzled as to why the 14-plate E400s haven't been moved to Wells as of yet. They're still in operation in Bath, and being longer than those loaned Bristol MMCs, they'd be a little easier to enforce Social Distancing on the Wells routes. Of course, it could be the used of MMCs is fuel related, which is slightly more understandable.

Note that I said that the CAZ would be no earlier than Feb 2021 - it could still be later in 2021 especially as emissions targets are probably now being met!!!

The 14 plate e400s for Wells aren't much different length wise to the mmcs so doubt it makes much difference. Might also be time to get them painted. Don't know if they're euro 5 or 6 so may need mods.

 

[Whiteway215]

About the Bath CAZ, we know it has been put back to Jan/Feb 2021 at the earliest. However it still depends on about £18 million of Government funding so given the state of the economy at the present time I just wonder how long it will be delayed or even cancelled.

 

[Tommy Walters]

Note that I said that the CAZ would be no earlier than Feb 2021 - it could still be later in 2021 especially as emissions targets are probably now being met!!!

The 14 plate e400s for Wells aren't much different length wise to the mmcs so doubt it makes much difference. Might also be time to get them painted. Don't know if they're euro 5 or 6 so may need mods.

Clearly I jumped the gun too quickly there. They are it seems in the paint shop now!

About the Bath CAZ, we know it has been put back to Jan/Feb 2021 at the earliest. However it still depends on about £18 million of Government funding so given the state of the economy at the present time I just w

I'm very sceptical about that happening then! And even if it did, I can see First and Faresaver complaining that they lack the funds from lost revenue to convert their vehicles!

 

[freetoview33]

We have to remember than as things stand for the next year the capacity of buses will be much lower so even if demand returns above 50% then more services will he needed than before. So I wouldn't bet on old buses going anywhere yet

 

[Streamr_MXP]

Clearly I jumped the gun too quickly there. They are it seems in the paint shop now!

Ahh great, more unreliable Enviros with a lack of charging ports & unbearable suspension coming to Wells. A lot of those ex-Bolton Enviros are in awful states if i'm honest. But I suppose that's First West of England for you. Buy the new stuff with charging ports and all for the cities, and chuck the s*** to Wells. Farewell Volvo's.

 

[D2007wsm]

Ahh great, more unreliable Enviros with a lack of charging ports & unbearable suspension coming to Wells. A lot of those ex-Bolton Enviros are in awful states if i'm honest. But I suppose that's First West of England for you. Buy the new stuff with charging ports and all for the cities, and chuck the s*** to Wells. Farewell Volvo's.

At least they’re better than the Streetwrecks! and are 5/6 years newer than the B9s. Hardly a backwards step! Suspension can be fixed, interiors can be tidied up and USBs can be installed. Wells is no different to Weston receiving hand me downs from all over the place. In recent years, Wells has received far more new vehicles than Weston with the 54 & 59 plate B7RLEs, plus the Streetdecks. All Weston has had is 33825-33830 E400s in 2013 and 67107/8 E200MMCs in 2017 for the A3.

I think the intention where possible, is to try and group vehicle types at a depot to have a common fleet and cut down on spare parts having to be kept.

If the suspension is fixed, most of the time they are fine. I usually travel on the excel E400s a lot and they are fine. The main issue is with the 335** which are London spec. These are shorter and have the same amount of seats in less space, meaning there is less leg room. The 334/6/7/8** are better. The only other issue with all the E400s is the heating or lack of in the winter.

Last year I caught a 376 from Wells to Bristol and a B9 turned up. I found these suffered from lack of leg room, not good on a longer journey and the lack of headrests didn’t make them as comfy. I would much rather an E400 had turned up. The only saving grace was the USB as my phone was dying and I had forgotten my battery pack I usually carry.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Ahh great, more unreliable Enviros with a lack of charging ports & unbearable suspension coming to Wells. A lot of those ex-Bolton Enviros are in awful states if i'm honest. But I suppose that's First West of England for you. Buy the new stuff with charging ports and all for the cities, and chuck the s*** to Wells. Farewell Volvo's.

The Enviro 400s are much more reliable than the Streetdecks!

Also I was on 33831, 33835, 33839 and 33840 before lockdown and all four of those were in perfect condition to me. 33839 had a couple of tears in the eLeather seating, but mechanically they're fine!

 

[CD]

The FWOE tracker is back up and running today.

Fleet list – First Bristol, Bath & the West – bustimes.org

Although don`t think 32075 is likely to be on the 376

 

[Whiteway215]

The FWOE tracker is back up and running today.

Fleet list – First Bristol, Bath & the West – bustimes.org

Although don`t think 32075 is likely to be on the 376

Unless someone has pinched it from store at Westbury depot over the last couple of days!

 

[freetoview33]

What is the score with the M1 I thought first were operating it with first buses?

 

[Marcus Fryer]

What is the score with the M1 I thought first were operating it with first buses?

Bustimes has two separate timetables- one up to 15:00 from each terminal and one for 16:00 onwards. It would seem BCT buses work the early shift and FWOE buses work the late shift. This corresponds with my (limited) observations and what is (from yesterday) tracking on Bustimes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ahh great, more unreliable Enviros with a lack of charging ports & unbearable suspension coming to Wells. A lot of those ex-Bolton Enviros are in awful states if i'm honest. But I suppose that's First West of England for you. Buy the new stuff with charging ports and all for the cities, and chuck the s*** to Wells. Farewell Volvo's.

Got to remember that the Eclipses and Geminis were refurbished and had USBs retrofitted so not quite a fair comparison. I guess they may look to do the same with these. Granted, they Bolton ones have a few scuffs but that's the same as any vehicle that age but they're not bad. However, the Streetdecks simply couldn't take the mix of hills and high speed running so they'll definitely be an improvement there.

Also, if you look at how Wells depot will look after this.... you'll have the 376 with 2014 deckers (rather than 2015 deckers) and the 172-4 with 2012 deckers rather than a mix of 2008/9 deckers and 2009 singles (plus whatever for the 126).

As @D2007wsm says, there are many places a lot worse off. Weston has had 8 new vehicles in how long? What is now the Discover services got Eclipses (66937 etc as part of the Bath allocation) in 2005.... it lost most of them with Melksham and Frome getting 2005 Darts eventually and even now, Westbury has got some that age plus the 2010/11 Eclipses.

If the suspension is fixed, most of the time they are fine. I usually travel on the excel E400s a lot and they are fine. The main issue is with the 335** which are London spec. These are shorter and have the same amount of seats in less space, meaning there is less leg room. The 334/6/7/8** are better. The only other issue with all the E400s is the heating or lack of in the winter.

The ex Plymouth ones have ludicrous amounts of legroom. They only seat 39 on the top deck!! The ex London ones seat 41 upstairs vs the standard 45.

 

[Tommy Walters]

The FWOE tracker is back up and running today.

Fleet list – First Bristol, Bath & the West – bustimes.org

Although don`t think 32075 is likely to be on the 376

Reckon it's most likely one of 33832-4 or perhaps 33944 in disguise.

Some spots worthy of mentioning that I spotted on the tracker:

36822 now a Bath based machine, joining all the blue Scanias & 36815 there.

Streetlites 47443 is seemingly working Westbury routes.

The eldest bus working by quite some way is 66935, doing an A2. This may well be an error though!

 

[D2007wsm]

Got to remember that the Eclipses and Geminis were refurbished and had USBs retrofitted so not quite a fair comparison. I guess they may look to do the same with these. Granted, they Bolton ones have a few scuffs but that's the same as any vehicle that age but they're not bad. However, the Streetdecks simply couldn't take the mix of hills and high speed running so they'll definitely be an improvement there.

Also, if you look at how Wells depot will look after this.... you'll have the 376 with 2014 deckers (rather than 2015 deckers) and the 172-4 with 2012 deckers rather than a mix of 2008/9 deckers and 2009 singles (plus whatever for the 126).

As @D2007wsm says, there are many places a lot worse off. Weston has had 8 new vehicles in how long? What is now the Discover services got Eclipses (66937 etc as part of the Bath allocation) in 2005.... it lost most of them with Melksham and Frome getting 2005 Darts eventually and even now, Westbury has got some that age plus the 2010/11 Eclipses.



The ex Plymouth ones have ludicrous amounts of legroom. They only seat 39 on the top deck!! The ex London ones seat 41 upstairs vs the standard 45.

If I recall correctly, Weston have had 14 new buses in the last 20 years, 6 of which didn’t stay particularly long before moving to Hengrove, 3 of which being replaced by older buses: These are:

- 2017: 2 x Enviro 200MMC (67107/8)
- 2013: 6 x Enviro 400 (33825-30)
- 2007: 3 x Volvo B9 Geminis (37815-17)
- 2005: 3 x Volvo B7 Geminis (32636-8)

Before that of what I can remember it was 15 in the 5 years before that:

- 1998: 4 x Volvo Olympian Pallatine 2 (9688-9691 changed to 34188-34191)
- 1997: 4 x Short Dart SLF Pointer 2 (1716-1719 changed to 42716-19)
- 1996: 7 x Dart SLF Pointer 1 (258-264 changed to 46258-64)

That’s as far as I can remember, before that it would possibly have been step Darts or the Merc minibuses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Don't know if this has been previously mentioned but the supertanker that was First WoE and BoS 67600 SN53KKY has ended up with Greenslades in Exeter

 

[D2007wsm]

That one never quite fitted in when Weston had it. Due to the length it was used generally on the 7, X1/W1 or X5.

I can remember seeing a picture of it on the Marine Parade stop in Weston with it’s windscreen on the road behind an E400. The driver opened the doors during a gale, the wind blew straight through the doors and pushed the windscreen out.

Don't know if this has been previously mentioned but the supertanker that was First WoE and BoS 67600 SN53KKY has ended up with Greenslades in Exeter

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If I recall correctly, Weston have had 14 new buses in the last 20 years, 6 of which didn’t stay particularly long before moving to Hengrove, 3 of which being replaced by older buses: These are:

- 2017: 2 x Enviro 200MMC (67107/8)
- 2013: 6 x Enviro 400 (33825-30)
- 2007: 3 x Volvo B9 Geminis (37815-17)
- 2005: 3 x Volvo B7 Geminis (32636-8)

Before that of what I can remember it was 15 in the 5 years before that:

- 1998: 4 x Volvo Olympian Pallatine 2 (9688-9691 changed to 34188-34191)
- 1997: 4 x Short Dart SLF Pointer 2 (1716-1719 changed to 42716-19)
- 1996: 7 x Dart SLF Pointer 1 (258-264 changed to 46258-64)

That’s as far as I can remember, before that it would possibly have been step Darts or the Merc minibuses.

In recent times, it was really getting some fresher fleet for the X1 with the Geminis? Guess the only other bit of new fleet would have been the Streetlites (albeit delivered to Bristol not to Weston) for the Portishead route that is now run by Weston with deckers. However, you do show just how little new fleet Weston has had in 15 years - less than 1 a year!!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That one never quite fitted in when Weston had it. Due to the length it was used generally on the 7, X1/W1 or X5.

I can remember seeing a picture of it on the Marine Parade stop in Weston with it’s windscreen on the road behind an E400. The driver opened the doors during a gale, the wind blew straight through the doors and pushed the windscreen out.

Good story! Its wheelbase was a problem at Midland Red West IIRC. That's why it ended up stored out of use for some time at Hereford.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In recent times, it was really getting some fresher fleet for the X1 with the Geminis? Guess the only other bit of new fleet would have been the Streetlites (albeit delivered to Bristol not to Weston) for the Portishead route that is now run by Weston with deckers. However, you do show just how little new fleet Weston has had in 15 years - less than 1 a year!!

Bath got it's fleet comprehensively replaced in 2004/5 with the Solos, Eclipses, bendis and Darts. Think it has fared slightly better with

2006 - 8 Gemini (P&R)
2012 - 8 e400H (P&R), 7 e200
2013 - 11 Streetlite Max
2014 - 7 Streetlite
2016 - 8 e400mmc
2018 - 9 Solo SR

Aside from the 16 for the P&R contract, 42 in 15 years. Mind you, I bet I've missed something off.

 

[CD]

Good story! Its wheelbase was a problem at Midland Red West IIRC. That's why it ended up stored out of use for some time at Hereford.

If I remember correctly its first port of call when coming south was Bath. It was trialed for the X39 but was found to be too long for the old Bath bus station.
After WSM moved to Taunton where it spent more time in the depot than on the road. Bridgwater next where it made occasional outings on the 21.In the end it got withdrawn while in Yeovil. Not the most reliable or popular vehicle.

 

[Tommy Walters]

Bath got it's fleet comprehensively replaced in 2004/5 with the Solos, Eclipses, bendis and Darts. Think it has fared slightly better with

2006 - 8 Gemini (P&R)
2012 - 8 e400H (P&R), 7 e200
2013 - 11 Streetlite Max
2014 - 7 Streetlite
2016 - 8 e400mmc
2018 - 9 Solo SR

Aside from the 16 for the P&R contract, 42 in 15 years. Mind you, I bet I've missed something off.

Do the three Wessex Water E200s count? If so that's three extra ones I can think of!

 

[henairs]

Hi All,
A little news from here in sleepy Yeovil. Whilst returning from a walk into town this afternoon noted Frost recovery truck with Solo 53403 on extended lift outside the depot awaiting departure to ?
This one has been VOR for some time so needed to be towed away.
Presume just 53209 to depart now once it's passport is sorted ! Scotland bound.
Cheers, Mike

 

[D2007wsm]

If I remember correctly its first port of call when coming south was Bath. It was trialed for the X39 but was found to be too long for the old Bath bus station.
After WSM moved to Taunton where it spent more time in the depot than on the road. Bridgwater next where it made occasional outings on the 21.In the end it got withdrawn while in Yeovil. Not the most reliable or popular vehicle.

It was trialled in 2003 when new as it was a demo vehicle, for use on the X39 and was indeed found to be too long for the old Bus Station in Manvers Street.

It can’t have been tried at the old bus station during it’s tenure at First WoE as this was closed in June 2007, with services moving to the temporary bus station on Avon Street. The current Bus Station on Dorchester Street open-end in June 2009. It didn’t arrive at First WoE until March 2014.

It arrived at Lawrence Hill in preparation for service from Hereford, before moving down to Weston for service in April 2014. It stayed in Weston for just over 2 years, moving to Taunton in May 2016. Whilst in Weston though, it was treated to a repaint from Barbie to Urban.

It was actually OK to travel on, I remember catching it back from Bristol one night on the 00:10 W1.

 

[Private Baxter]

Ahh great, more unreliable Enviros with a lack of charging ports & unbearable suspension coming to Wells. A lot of those ex-Bolton Enviros are in awful states if i'm honest. But I suppose that's First West of England for you. Buy the new stuff with charging ports and all for the cities, and chuck the s*** to Wells. Farewell Volvo's.

I too will miss them - they are brilliant. But needs change and it is time for them to move on. At least they won't be going far. And we still don't know what will be working the 126 so perhaps a couple will stay put.

The FWOE tracker is back up and running today.

Fleet list – First Bristol, Bath & the West – bustimes.org

Although don`t think 32075 is likely to be on the 376

Now that's one thing I haven't missed!!

Got to remember that the Eclipses and Geminis were refurbished and had USBs retrofitted so not quite a fair comparison. I guess they may look to do the same with these. Granted, they Bolton ones have a few scuffs but that's the same as any vehicle that age but they're not bad. However, the Streetdecks simply couldn't take the mix of hills and high speed running so they'll definitely be an improvement there.

Also, if you look at how Wells depot will look after this.... you'll have the 376 with 2014 deckers (rather than 2015 deckers) and the 172-4 with 2012 deckers rather than a mix of 2008/9 deckers and 2009 singles (plus whatever for the 126).

As @D2007wsm says, there are many places a lot worse off. Weston has had 8 new vehicles in how long? What is now the Discover services got Eclipses (66937 etc as part of the Bath allocation) in 2005.... it lost most of them with Melksham and Frome getting 2005 Darts eventually and even now, Westbury has got some that age plus the 2010/11 Eclipses.



The ex Plymouth ones have ludicrous amounts of legroom. They only seat 39 on the top deck!! The ex London ones seat 41 upstairs vs the standard 45.

During my 20 odd years of interest, Wells and Bath seem to have been the main beneficiary of new buses, including, as you mention, that huge delivery of, I think, 88 (?) brand new buses in 2005. New buses arrive in Bath only sporadically now, whilst the 376 has always been first in line for new fleet, as has the 173, though on this occasion second hand e400s were considered adequate. The majority of the existing fleet have been very reliable over the past ten years.
As for the other depots, I had never known Weston to receive new buses until the 63 plate e400s a few years ago, (so thanks @D2007wsm for your summary), and MH was also the home of third hand buses, though that has changed in recent years, with new buses having been delivered for Portishead routes X2/X3, Severn Express and more recently the various SG routes.

 

[Private Baxter]

Bath got it's fleet comprehensively replaced in 2004/5 with the Solos, Eclipses, bendis and Darts. Think it has fared slightly better with

2006 - 8 Gemini (P&R)
2012 - 8 e400H (P&R), 7 e200
2013 - 11 Streetlite Max
2014 - 7 Streetlite
2016 - 8 e400mmc
2018 - 9 Solo SR

Aside from the 16 for the P&R contract, 42 in 15 years. Mind you, I bet I've missed something off.

No that is absolutely spot on. There was a gap between the last of 2005 eclipses (understandably so) and the 62 reg e200s where nothing new came. As I mentioned in my post above it was a huuge delivery, though it didn't take long foe many to start transferring away, with B7RLEs going to Yeovil, Portsmouth, Glasgow, whilst five of the darts moved to Taunton early on (though three of these eventually came back).