First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

Surely it would also make sense to convert 66992/3 likewise? Or are they too non-standard now to even maintain their role as trainers?

They may well do those as well. They're looking to replace the Renowns and achieve CAZ compliance

 

[ValleyLines142]

And they're on there for how long???? Not an hour

I feel as if we're going into specifics a little too much on this now, but the fact is USB ports are a welcome addition (for me anyway) and I don't think it would hurt First to install them.

 

[Whiteway215]

66885/6 are the other Discovers.

66722/7/881-4 are the Bath 5 buses.

IIRC 66956 is withdrawn and was laid up at Lawrence Hill.

Suspect the Barbie 55 plates will be upgraded to euro VI trainers. Tbh, the unrefurbished ones are dreadful now with threadbare cushions (esp 667** examples) and need to move on.

66885 is VOR with quite nasty rear end / engine fire damage.
The other Discover fire victim 69501 has been donating parts to 69505 which suffered front offside damage under the driver’s cab.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I feel as if we're going into specifics a little too much on this now, but the fact is USB ports are a welcome addition (for me anyway) and I don't think it would hurt First to install them.

Yeah but the point is that it was being made to be some sort of essential. Handy yes, but not essential.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Yeah but the point is that it was being made to be some sort of essential. Handy yes, but not essential.

I think most new vehicles have them now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think most new vehicles have them now.

Yeah, I get that. Just that our e400 poster was suggesting it was somehow crucial.

Useful yes but not crucial and especially in comparison to other issues.... like a comfortable seat (or getting a seat at all).

 

[BBC]

I don't really know anyone with Unlimited 4G although I know this is a thing (I know a lot of people have a lot of data) so I agree WiFi is less needed now.

I have unlimited 4g with Three so no need for me to hook up. But the reason isn’t down to cost it’s down to how slow the system was, maybe they’ll look at it again once 5g comes in but I think the days of WiFi on bus in the West if England are numbered.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Yeah, I get that. Just that our e400 poster was suggesting it was somehow crucial.

Useful yes but not crucial and especially in comparison to other issues.... like a comfortable seat (or getting a seat at all).

If you want a comfortable seat on an E400 sit behind the driver!

 

[BBC]

If you want a comfortable seat on an E400 sit behind the driver!

I want a comfortable seat as the driver full stop ! We can have it all ha

 

[lx12ddo]

If you want a comfortable seat on an E400 sit behind the driver!

for the most uncomforatble - top deck directly above said driver....! (based on TfL spec ...)

 

[Whiteway215]

On the tracker today 47443 is on the Bath 5 and 47570 on D1.

Also the Buses of Somerset ‘behind the scenes’ is showing disposals for their recent withdrawals.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If you want a comfortable seat on an E400 sit behind the driver!

Let our e400 non-fan know

To be honest, the 12 plates could probably justify a mid life refurb now. I don't disagree that the e400mmc is a more refined vehicle yet the number of body squeaks and rattles are quite noticeable on them - an ADL trait sadly.

Not been on the new gas buses other than the Metrobus examples but none of the First examples with the exception of the Bristol U1 are as good as the Stagecoach examples on the S6 and 55.

 

[D2007wsm]

Listed on Weston-Super-Mare's operations on First West of England's website, was service 126, listed as "The Strawberry Route". And don't remember seeing it on Wells' most recent operations. (Pages has been temporarily removed due to Coronavirus). This does suggest that it's being transferred to Weston, and Wells is going fully double decker operations. Judging by Weston's allocations for their run of the 126, It will most likely be ran by Streetlites. I very much doubt 54" and 55" B7RLEs will operate the route, as they are all being withdrawn from service, and I believe two (66940 & 66941) are replacing two b10's for training. I may be wrong, but these are a few things i've noticed recently.

Streetlites won’t cope with the traditional summer loadings on certain journeys. If they had wanted to use Streetlites permanently on the 126, they would’ve retained some of the Streetlite Maxs.

Yeah, I get that. Just that our e400 poster was suggesting it was somehow crucial.

Useful yes but not crucial and especially in comparison to other issues.... like a comfortable seat (or getting a seat at all).

I concur, but as well as a comfy seat I would vote for heating in the winter as well!

If you want a comfortable seat on an E400 sit behind the driver!

It’s comfortable as in you don’t have anyone come and sit by you, but in regard to comfort on your rump, nah! That seat along with the two behind the door, off side front upstairs, raised seats above the wheels and back seats on some are awful, just a bit of card covered in leather

 

[ValleyLines142]

Let our e400 non-fan know

To be honest, the 12 plates could probably justify a mid life refurb now. I don't disagree that the e400mmc is a more refined vehicle yet the number of body squeaks and rattles are quite noticeable on them - an ADL trait sadly.

Not been on the new gas buses other than the Metrobus examples but none of the First examples with the exception of the Bristol U1 are as good as the Stagecoach examples on the S6 and 55.

Exactly. Quick spruce up (and USB ports!) and Bob's your uncle.

 

[freetoview33]

Just a quick question over the last 40 years or so what buses have been on the 1 in Bristol? I know Lynxes, ALX400's, Gemini 2's and E400MMC. Anything I have missed?
I mean the main fleet, I know there have been almost everything on there from time to time.

 

[carlberry]

Just a quick question over the last 40 years or so what buses have been on the 1 in Bristol? I know Lynxes, ALX400's, Gemini 2's and E400MMC. Anything I have missed?
I mean the main fleet, I know there have been almost everything on there from time to time.

Plus Bristol VRs and Leyland Leopards at least. I cant remember if Olympians were common before the Lynx arrived.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Plus Bristol VRs and Leyland Leopards at least. I cant remember if Olympians were common before the Lynx arrived.

VRs definitely - https://www.flickr.com/photos/noddi...Y5-4sHr57-8LQExt-ePiWWk-2hYWBrx-pEJmf2-9Dxcq7
Olympians as well after the Lynxes - https://www.flickr.com/photos/77751183@N07/9923505086/in/photolist-qxKeXy-g7Uykh-TX6kny

and of course, the odd FLF - https://www.flickr.com/photos/jncar...hotolist-2dXCNoa-bpFXB2-nDXjez-bgNDak-27vhmHv

 

[carlberry]

VRs definitely - https://www.flickr.com/photos/noddi...Y5-4sHr57-8LQExt-ePiWWk-2hYWBrx-pEJmf2-9Dxcq7
Olympians as well after the Lynxes - https://www.flickr.com/photos/77751183@N07/9923505086/in/photolist-qxKeXy-g7Uykh-TX6kny

and of course, the odd FLF - https://www.flickr.com/photos/jncar...hotolist-2dXCNoa-bpFXB2-nDXjez-bgNDak-27vhmHv

That of course was THE odd FLF!

 

[CD]

Anyone observing the lockdown with an hour to spare. This is when buses were buses.

 

[iantherev]

Anyone observing the lockdown with an hour to spare. This is when buses were buses.

The front cover with a Transit, a Wright Handybus Dart and. Merc minibus would perhaps disagree with this.......

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Anyone observing the lockdown with an hour to spare. This is when buses were buses.

Indeed - not a USB port to be seen

My first trip to Taunton was in 1991 starting from Dorchester on an LH (3129) and changing at Cattistock to an Iveco (550) and then a round trip from Yeovil to Taunton (2869 out, 1093 return) and then to Sherborne on another Iveco (533). Doubtless you and Mike had some trips on the 54 on a VR or a National.....

My first trip to Wells in 1992 began there and had a trip on the 126 to Weston with an RE (1317) before a round trip to Bridgwater on the 102 (B10M 107) and then to Bristol on the 353 on an Olly (9507) before a trip to Glastonbury on the 376 (3612) before heading back to Wells on 3610.

The front cover with a Transit, a Wright Handybus Dart and. Merc minibus would perhaps disagree with this.......

To be honest, my first flirtation with Southern National may have involved some big buses but later the same week, I travelled on the 31 Axminster to Chard (Iveco mini) and then on the 21 which had recently been converted to Merc 811s. Both Badgerline and SN had a lot of Transits still working in 1991/92. There was something exhilarating about travelling on some tightly timed country service (like Frome to Warminster) on a Badgerline Transit!

 

[Marcus Fryer]

I have had clarification that the 4 gas buses on the 75/76 are being run from Hengrove and based at Hengrove (but I guess calling in at Lawrence Hill or Parson Street for filling up)

The Bustimes tracker shows 39418 having a lunchtime trip from Hengrove to Broadmead and back on the 91 today, in between running peak time duplicates on the 75/76.

 

[CD]

The front cover with a Transit, a Wright Handybus Dart and. Merc minibus would perhaps disagree with this.......

Never judge a book by its cover.
Or even a video

 

[georgeloxton02]

Few points of order on this.

Firstly, the arrival of the 12 plate E400s were not rushed. Generally most of them received vinyls and were repainted in plenty of time. I understand that there were a handful of engineering issues with some of them too which had to be sorted before leaving Hengrove.

12 plate E400s - generally speaking they aren't bad. From a driving perspective, they accelerate well and are comfortable to drive. However the brakes aren't the best and on some, in particular the ex Weston ones, the brakes snatch. There are two annoying problems I find with them - one is the change pot - most of us have change dispensers, so having to count out change each time you get on a different bus can be quite annoying, especially when you're late. This wouldn't be such an issue if we only had to carry around £1 and 50p coins for simple fares. The other problem is the n/s wing mirror - the legacy of these buses for me will be the pain in the neck that I'll forever have. From a passenger perspective, I have very little issues with them. They're generally comfortable, however I agree with your points about USB charging points and the heating - we can't control the heating and its rather annoying. I'll come onto USB points later. The worst thing about all of these E400s is generally the non-existent suspension - going over any speed hump or hitting a pothole is particularly bad, especially on the 14 plates. Each one of these buses have their own problems - however 33661 and 33664 have generally been well behaved. 33754 has problems with starting, hence why its off the road. 33658 and 33660 are generally brilliant buses, but just breakdown quite a bit. 33662, 33666, 33667 and 33754 are the worst for snatchy brakes. 33659 used to have very bad problems accelerating on hills, but has thankfully been fixed. And finally 33665 is generally a good bus. All of them rattle, some more than others, but like I say all are different. They are well suited to 376, but in my opinion would be better suited to 172/3/4 (age related).

14 plate E400s - the first one of these I drove was 33835, which I was impressed with. Generally the 14 plate E400s have a vastly better braking system - but that's all they have going for them. 33838 doesn't have any change pot (a nightmare), 33840 rumbles when above 40mph and 33836 was littered with problems. All of them have significantly worse suspension and the acceleration is awful. Generally they can't decide what gear they want to stay in and they are rather annoying to me. The headlights also have a filter which lowers them - so you can't see as far along the road as you can with a 12 plate.

MMCs - by far the best type of decker I've driven. They could do with a bit more room in the cab and the brakes are rather "Streetdecky", but generally they're pretty good. Not the best with acceleration, but still cope with the hills particularly well. The only real issue I have with them is once again the n/s wing mirror - which is positioned in an even worse place than the older Enviros. These, as in my previous opinions, would have been the best bus to buy for 376 in 2015 over the Streetdeck and we wouldn't have suffered all the problems that we've had previously.

So yes I agree with some of your points, but generally speaking the E400 deckers are a far better choice over the Streetdeck and some are even better than B9s. I'm generally pleased with the approach of the fleet - having the same type of decker is a good idea and using 54/55 plate B7RLEs (of which I'm hopeful it'll be 54 plate, since they accelerate better) on 126 is a good idea. If First withdraw all the B7RLEs, they'll be short of vehicles, which even before this crisis they couldn't afford to bring in new stock to replace. So keeping some of the best singles in service on routes which don't get affected by any emission zones are ideal in my opinion.

As much as it will surprise some, I can't wait to get rid of the B9s. Although most have had to have new gearboxes (I believe 37605 is about to get another one only after a few months of getting a new one), they have been pretty reliable. The big issue that I find is they aren't designed for hills - 37605 is particularly bad and will get down to 15mph before deciding it wants to go up the hill. The 09 plates are generally better and are more comfortable.

With the B7RLEs, all of the Wells drivers will be mostly disappointed at them leaving. They're an excellent bus in so many ways - I've been privileged enough in the last few weeks (before going on furlough) to drive most of them on 172/3/4, some for my whole duty. They will be deeply missed, but they do unfortunately have several problems creeping up - the only one that hasn't had any issues is 69443 and, obviously, 66720.

If we can get a fleet of E400MMCs, I expect most of us will enjoy them, especially since the 14 plates aren't anywhere as good.

When it comes to USB charging points, I fully understand your frustration, but generally speaking USB charging points, as others have said, aren't a necessity. However saying that, 376 carries a lot of commuters and many that need to charge their phones. I've been under the view that if all of Wells was run by Stagecoach, it would all come under the Stagecoach Gold brand, so would receive such luxuries as comfortable seating and USB points. I think that all our routes also need to have next stop announcements - as much as it annoys drivers, its very useful to passengers. I don't think unfortunately we'll see anything like this anytime soon under the current situation.

I agree that 33660 is a wonderful bus, that turbo is stunning and it’s quite fast aswell. 33665 is also one of my favourites. I agree with what you said about the 14 plates, the suspension is quite solid on them but on my last ride on TSO it was quite speedy.

 

[Whiteway215]

36822 on U2 today and 33948 yesterday

 

[Private Baxter]

Anyone observing the lockdown with an hour to spare. This is when buses were buses.

Some quite interesting footage from Wells and Taunton int the 90s. A few obs from Wells, note how people are driving in the bus station and walking behind the buses, oblivious to the idea they could reverse at any time. That was one of the reasons the bus station was re-positioned to where it is now, though people still do it.
Note also the poster on the back of a 173 lynx. I can't quite make out all of what is said, though something about greener transport. How that would pass today's tests!
Also interesting seeing Tesco under construction. For those who are interested, it was an outdoor swimming pool before Tesco bought the site.

 

[devonexpress]

I agree that 33660 is a wonderful bus, that turbo is stunning and it’s quite fast aswell. 33665 is also one of my favourites. I agree with what you said about the 14 plates, the suspension is quite solid on them but on my last ride on TSO it was quite speedy.

I personally prefer 33662, although there was a big gap between when I last rode her. 2014 when the Dawlish sea wall went, and this year in February roughly 6 years later by 1 week. Inside she was fairly dirty compared to near new, one of the back poles was loose and clunking, the seats had marks on them etc. I can't help but think she would have been a little more loved by First D&C. Otherwise no issues.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I personally prefer 33662, although there was a big gap between when I last rode her. 2014 when the Dawlish sea wall went, and this year in February roughly 6 years later by 1 week. Inside she was fairly dirty compared to near new, one of the back poles was loose and clunking, the seats had marks on them etc. I can't help but think she would have been a little more loved by First D&C. Otherwise no issues.

To be fair, 33658-33667 were dragged around Knowle and Hengrove for quite a while on the 91/92, until 666 & 667 departed for Weston. Whilst certainly not being disrespectful, they're not the nicest of areas, and I regularly used to see folk on them departing The Horsefair with their feet up all over the seats, so I'm not at all surprised if 33662 is starting to look a little forlorn. Having said that, this is actually the bus I had when I got the 50 once from Hengrove Park back into town, and I can't say I noticed anything out of the ordinary.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To be fair, 33658-33667 were dragged around Knowle and Hengrove for quite a while on the 91/92, until 666 & 667 departed for Weston. Whilst certainly not being disrespectful, they're not the nicest of areas, and I regularly used to see folk on them departing The Horsefair with their feet up all over the seats, so I'm not at all surprised if 33662 is starting to look a little forlorn. Having said that, this is actually the bus I had when I got the 50 once from Hengrove Park back into town, and I can't say I noticed anything out of the ordinary.

Think people have got to remember that these are now about 8 years old. They will have scuffs and rattles etc from there time. In 2014, they'd been confined to pootling about Plymouth on P&R whereas since then, they've been worked on Tavistocks, the Kernow U1/2, and then around on the Whitchurch routes. I remember commenting on one of my trips out that I got one (it was 33660) on the 50 and it was fine but getting a bit scuffed. Moreover, without any route branding, they are very grey internally!!!

The thing is the comparison. If you compare with the refurbished B9TLs or the B7RLEs then, of course, these e400s are going to look jaded in comparison. A fairer comparison is with the B9TLs that were refurbished in 2013 and yeah, they look a bit careworn in places. I didn't mind the Streetdecks on the 376 as a passenger but clearly, the major unit failures being encountered just meant that they couldn't carry on.

I'd like to think that in a couple of years, the business case can be established to have new deckers on the 376 of a comparable standard to the ones recently delivered to First Eastern Counties (see here http://fecx1news.blogspot.com/ ).

However, we've had a dearth of new vehicle investment in recent years for "regular" services (i.e. not including stuff like metrobus, P&R, unibus, airport flyer) - essentially 2017-9 comprised the 24 Scanias and 9 Solos. That drought has broken with the gas buses but you question (even before Covid) the future investment for other services that are also needing some updating. Hence why the e400s will have to do for the foreseeable.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Think people have got to remember that these are now about 8 years old. They will have scuffs and rattles etc from there time. In 2014, they'd been confined to pootling about Plymouth on P&R whereas since then, they've been worked on Tavistocks, the Kernow U1/2, and then around on the Whitchurch routes. I remember commenting on one of my trips out that I got one (it was 33660) on the 50 and it was fine but getting a bit scuffed. Moreover, without any route branding, they are very grey internally!!!

The thing is the comparison. If you compare with the refurbished B9TLs or the B7RLEs then, of course, these e400s are going to look jaded in comparison. A fairer comparison is with the B9TLs that were refurbished in 2013 and yeah, they look a bit careworn in places. I didn't mind the Streetdecks on the 376 as a passenger but clearly, the major unit failures being encountered just meant that they couldn't carry on.

I'd like to think that in a couple of years, the business case can be established to have new deckers on the 376 of a comparable standard to the ones recently delivered to First Eastern Counties (see here http://fecx1news.blogspot.com/ ).

However, we've had a dearth of new vehicle investment in recent years for "regular" services (i.e. not including stuff like metrobus, P&R, unibus, airport flyer) - essentially 2017-9 comprised the 24 Scanias and 9 Solos. That drought has broken with the gas buses but you question (even before Covid) the future investment for other services that are also needing some updating. Hence why the e400s will have to do for the foreseeable.

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there. Personally I prefer the traditional Enviro 400, particularly the newer models (as opposed to 33411 and friends, even though the seats are hands down the most comfiest seats I've ever sat on, despite looking very tired). The proper 'rumbly' ones where you can hear them a mile off are the best, but I appreciate they're very bumpy and clunky (a bit like me!). The E400MMCs are nice, but they don't feel like ADL products and I find that due to their sturdiness and general good condition, that many First divisions are going for them. Went on a Stagecoach hybrid on the 277 the other day and I flew through Hackney. Felt as if I was on a 747!