First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[ValleyLines142]

I still stand by a depot in the Patchway area.

 

[D2007wsm]

Shame they don't have allocation plates anymore! Of course they'd be forever coming off and swapped, so would probably give up eventually anyway!! Recent arrivals do seem to have missed the various depot tags on the sides, so wonder if that has stopped now too?
Hard to believe there were four depots back then - What was the decision to close Winterstoke Road?

On some of the newer vehicles, I have seen these inside on the driver’s cab door rather than other the front nearside wheel

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I still stand by a depot in the Patchway area.

There is - Stagecoach have it

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

IF demand does return then a new depot will be needed with all the new developments.
Like the M1 I'm guessing that was sub contracted to BCT mainly down to lack of depot space than anything else.

It was a commercial decision rather than a space related decision

I can't see a new depot in the foreseeable future (i.e. next 3 years)

 

[freetoview33]

From tomorrow more buses are out and about

In Bath:
Service 5 - Most Mon-Fri daytime journeys will be duplicated

In Bristol:
Service 2 – Mon-Fri peak time journeys duplicated between Henbury and Stockwood
Service 4 - Mon-Fri peak time journeys duplicated between Shirehampton/Sea Mills and city centre
Service 17 - Mon-Fri peak time journeys duplicated between Fishponds and Southmead Hospital
Service 24 - Mon-Fri peak time journeys duplicated between Lockleaze and city centre
Service 43 - Mon-Fri peak time journeys duplicated between Kingswood and city centre
Service 45 - Mon-Fri peak time journeys duplicated between Bryants Hill and city centre
Service 48 - Mon-Fri peak time journeys duplicated between Fishponds and city centre
Service 49 - Mon-Fri peak time journeys duplicated between Fishponds and city centre
Service m3 will terminate at Rupert Street rather than Colston Avenue and will start at Lewins Mead. This is to improve punctuality.
Service 96 - will now be run with double deckers

Duplications don't require a change in registration and are easier to withdrawal if needed.

 

[freetoview33]

It was a commercial decision rather than a space related decision

I can't see a new depot in the foreseeable future (i.e. next 3 years)

I agree now it would be more likely the 5 year period. But I also think it could come more along the lines of a closer working relationship with BCT. It will be interesting in the short term who gets the X5 and what happens to SEV.

 

[cnjb8]

With Buses of Somerset recieving Tridents from Kernow in 21 base livery, does this mean the Wright Solars are being withdrawn? The 21 is also getting 2 Enviro300s so this would be a huge amount of branded buses in respect of PVR.

 

[georgeloxton02]

Hello all, while on my daily walk yesterday I came across Wells overflow depot/outstation near the premiere in. I was walking down through Morrison’s car park and I saw the top of a Gemini so I thought I would go have a look. While there I took a few photos with my phone and I saw that SN12 AEB 33661 has had its doors left open with its cab door left open which is a bit concerning as bad weather and thieves could potentially damage the interior of the bus.

Also W809 PAE was there which I was surprised about, I thought it would have been in the westbury outstation with all the other w reg alx400s

 

[Private Baxter]

Hello all, while on my daily walk yesterday I came across Wells overflow depot/outstation near the premiere in. I was walking down through Morrison’s car park and I saw the top of a Gemini so I thought I would go have a look. While there I took a few photos with my phone and I saw that SN12 AEB 33661 has had its doors left open with its cab door left open which is a bit concerning as bad weather and thieves could potentially damage the interior of the bus.

Also W809 PAE was there which I was surprised about, I thought it would have been in the westbury outstation with all the other w reg alx400s

I expect that all the buses there have been there for a few weeks, though with regular security checks. It might be that it is also being used to store a variety of other buses which cannot be accommodated at other sites.

 

[NJ51]

Steve White has posted a list of vehicles laid up during the Coronavirus lockdown. I would add that a number of Lawrence Hill's Enviro 400MMCs have been loaned to Somerset Passenger Solutions , and to Wells , and Weston-super-Mare depots. I can only travel far enough on my bike to photograph the Weston examples on the Excel services . So far I have photographed 11 - 33488 , 33958/9 , 33962 , 33967-73 which seems to tie up with what the bus tracker says are there . The photos are on the First Bristol Bath and West group on flickr. My brother Tim has photographed a number of the Wells examples in Norton Radstock , which are more varied , and also include purple MMCs from Bath. They are also on flickr. Weston seems to be running only MMCs and Streetlites , with even the 63 regd Enviros being laid up. There were MMCs on X2 and 20 last Monday but these seem to have reverted to Streetlites since .

 

[georgeloxton02]

I expect that all the buses there have been there for a few weeks, though with regular security checks. It might be that it is also being used to store a variety of other buses which cannot be accommodated at other sites.

Even with that it’s a little concerning to see the doors open, and even more concerning to see the cab door open!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I agree now it would be more likely the 5 year period. But I also think it could come more along the lines of a closer working relationship with BCT. It will be interesting in the short term who gets the X5 and what happens to SEV.

New/additional depots are pre-decated on a number of factors. Firstly, that there will be a growth of services allied to these new developments, that other services also won't decline, that there won't be a long term effect on travelling figures, and that it's First who will actually run any additional services.

Despite the much trumpeted increases in ridership, since the growth of the fleet in 2014/5 to counteract Wessex, there has been a lot of continued trimming of services, and much of the growth has still been against a backdrop of deckerisation so the PVR has continued to fall. I'm trying to recall the positive moves, in terms of service enhancements and its impact on PVRs, in the last five years. There was the 2A that was about to appear, the increase on the Thornbury service and a smaller increase on the Yate corridor.... Much else?

I don't think First is any closer to having (or needing) a new depot now than in 2014.

As for who gets the X5, has there been any mention of a replacement anyway? Same with SEV?

 

[spw24]

The reserve list is dated mid April so is a little out of date by now.

 

[freetoview33]

New/additional depots are pre-decated on a number of factors. Firstly, that there will be a growth of services allied to these new developments, that other services also won't decline, that there won't be a long term effect on travelling figures, and that it's First who will actually run any additional services.

Despite the much trumpeted increases in ridership, since the growth of the fleet in 2014/5 to counteract Wessex, there has been a lot of continued trimming of services, and much of the growth has still been against a backdrop of deckerisation so the PVR has continued to fall. I'm trying to recall the positive moves, in terms of service enhancements and its impact on PVRs, in the last five years. There was the 2A that was about to appear, the increase on the Thornbury service and a smaller increase on the Yate corridor.... Much else?

I don't think First is any closer to having (or needing) a new depot now than in 2014.

As for who gets the X5, has there been any mention of a replacement anyway? Same with SEV?

On here or facebook, someone mentioned there were a few companies interested with the X5. But who knows really?

But on a different topic, it all comes down to what do you see the ultimate future of transport being? Car or Public transport? Even with Zero emission cars you can't just let everyone use a car as the congestion would still get out of control, so I ultimately see it as being public transport for the majority of City dwellers anyway.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

On here or facebook, someone mentioned there were a few companies interested with the X5. But who knows really?

But on a different topic, it all comes down to what do you see the ultimate future of transport being? Car or Public transport? Even with Zero emission cars you can't just let everyone use a car as the congestion would still get out of control, so I ultimately see it as being public transport for the majority of City dwellers anyway.

Given that two major operators have tried and ultimately failed to make a commercial success of either route, I'd question whether anyone will look to take it on in its current guise and/or without financial support.

As for the future of public transport.... I'd be better placed to give you 6 numbers for the lottery!!! The problem is that there are too many people who have a sense of entitlement. They believe they have a god given right to drive when and wherever they like; Christ, you can see it now with the number of people making "essential journeys". If we want to be serious about public transport, then it has to have a number of strands IMHO (and I'll keep it local to keep it sort of on-topic)...

• We have to place some sort of limit on car usage, preferably financially. Car ownership and usage is now no more expensive (and in some respects cheaper) than it was 20 years ago. All you have to do is look at removal of the Severn Bridge charges; suddenly something that acted as a financial curb was removed and, not surprisingly, car travel increased and the 7XP service was nobbled.
  • The Bristol CAZ is something that would have levelled things a bit but whether that happens now in a post Covid world, who knows?
  • Remember when they wanted to reduce the amount of parking in Clifton - the solution was the 901!! Yet still the amount of roadside parking that is provided is ludicrous
• Planning for public transport should be central to building new developments. Not just a bus shelter at the end of the road or some section 106 funding to act as a sop to get the plans approved. Take two examples
  • Somerdale in Keynsham - it had a s.106 bus service (the perennially empty 637?) and allegedly a diversion of the 17/17a (though it never went there when I travelled on it. Now it's on an extension of the town services on some irregular frequency - public transport is not front and centre
  • Lyde Green - yes, it's on Metrobus and First did extend (and now withdrawing) the 48/49 but there are still chunks of it poorly served and there are areas where cars are permitted to park on the road, just to slow the buses a bit!!
• Bus priority has to be improved.
  • I've bemoaned Bath Road before but are we supposed to wait until 2036 in case Callington Road comes to pass....? However, showing I'm not a one trick pony, I can point to the car parking spaces in the bus lane on Spike Island, or the lack of priority on the upper part of Wells Road, or the lack of enforcement generally when people decide to park wherever and whenever they want.
  • The design of bus priority needs to be better. Too many instances of buses having to force their way out into traffic.

Sorry to have a rant but there are too many people who feel they have a right to drive in Bristol and until the playing field is levelled out in terms of time and cost, the benefits of public transport will continue to be overshadowed by the ease and cost effectiveness of taking your metal box into town and the requirement, nay demand, to park it no more than 30 ft from your front door. Oh, and all that applies whether the bus is publicly or privately owned.

 

[freetoview33]

Given that two major operators have tried and ultimately failed to make a commercial success of either route, I'd question whether anyone will look to take it on in its current guise and/or without financial support.

As for the future of public transport.... I'd be better placed to give you 6 numbers for the lottery!!! The problem is that there are too many people who have a sense of entitlement. They believe they have a god given right to drive when and wherever they like; Christ, you can see it now with the number of people making "essential journeys". If we want to be serious about public transport, then it has to have a number of strands IMHO (and I'll keep it local to keep it sort of on-topic)...

• We have to place some sort of limit on car usage, preferably financially. Car ownership and usage is now no more expensive (and in some respects cheaper) than it was 20 years ago. All you have to do is look at removal of the Severn Bridge charges; suddenly something that acted as a financial curb was removed and, not surprisingly, car travel increased and the 7XP service was nobbled.
  • The Bristol CAZ is something that would have levelled things a bit but whether that happens now in a post Covid world, who knows?
  • Remember when they wanted to reduce the amount of parking in Clifton - the solution was the 901!! Yet still the amount of roadside parking that is provided is ludicrous
• Planning for public transport should be central to building new developments. Not just a bus shelter at the end of the road or some section 106 funding to act as a sop to get the plans approved. Take two examples
  • Somerdale in Keynsham - it had a s.106 bus service (the perennially empty 637?) and allegedly a diversion of the 17/17a (though it never went there when I travelled on it. Now it's on an extension of the town services on some irregular frequency - public transport is not front and centre
  • Lyde Green - yes, it's on Metrobus and First did extend (and now withdrawing) the 48/49 but there are still chunks of it poorly served and there are areas where cars are permitted to park on the road, just to slow the buses a bit!!
• Bus priority has to be improved.
  • I've bemoaned Bath Road before but are we supposed to wait until 2036 in case Callington Road comes to pass....? However, showing I'm not a one trick pony, I can point to the car parking spaces in the bus lane on Spike Island, or the lack of priority on the upper part of Wells Road, or the lack of enforcement generally when people decide to park wherever and whenever they want.
  • The design of bus priority needs to be better. Too many instances of buses having to force their way out into traffic.

Sorry to have a rant but there are too many people who feel they have a right to drive in Bristol and until the playing field is levelled out in terms of time and cost, the benefits of public transport will continue to be overshadowed by the ease and cost effectiveness of taking your metal box into town and the requirement, nay demand, to park it no more than 30 ft from your front door. Oh, and all that applies whether the bus is publicly or privately owned.

I fully agree, the only issue we then face is less people using shops, which without going deeply into Politics (Which I could do) is in my eyes a fault of the tax system and planning systems, and until a government overhauls it we will come back to the same problem.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I fully agree, the only issue we then face is less people using shops, which without going deeply into Politics (Which I could do) is in my eyes a fault of the tax system and planning systems, and until a government overhauls it we will come back to the same problem.

Planning regs have been an issue for many years and even stuff like PPG13 (back in the day) only curbed the worst excesses. However, the fact is that internet shopping has and is continuing to grow and that is partly due to price but mainly to convenience. The shopkeepers in our beleaguered town and city centres will therefore cite that the only way forward is to have cheaper parking.

In Bristol, it needs the CAZ to limit the worst excesses. Not every journey is easily substituted by public transport but the problem isn't (wholly) the person driving from Warmley to work in Whitchurch, but the person who commutes from Downend to the Centre in their car.

 

[freetoview33]

Planning regs have been an issue for many years and even stuff like PPG13 (back in the day) only curbed the worst excesses. However, the fact is that internet shopping has and is continuing to grow and that is partly due to price but mainly to convenience. The shopkeepers in our beleaguered town and city centres will therefore cite that the only way forward is to have cheaper parking.

In Bristol, it needs the CAZ to limit the worst excesses. Not every journey is easily substituted by public transport but the problem isn't (wholly) the person driving from Warmley to work in Whitchurch, but the person who commutes from Downend to the Centre in their car.

The argument I was making that isn't necessarily a public transport issue but if the tax system was changed to allow high streets to be more competitive (it is hard but it is possible) then the usage of cars wouldn't be as major issue as it might currently be. I'm not saying that alone would work but it would be a step. (Even reducing the tax burden on public transport, could reduce costs vs cars) but then this won't happen as no one would want to be seen to be giving a tax break to private companies in this way.

 

[swifty]

• Planning for public transport should be central to building new developments. Not just a bus shelter at the end of the road or some section 106 funding to act as a sop to get the plans approved. Take two examples
  • Somerdale in Keynsham - it had a s.106 bus service (the perennially empty 637?) and allegedly a diversion of the 17/17a (though it never went there when I travelled on it. Now it's on an extension of the town services on some irregular frequency - public transport is not front and centre

Strange one that, it was a bit of a Chicken and the egg the way they started serving it before there was a market. The 17 went down to the old Manor House and turned in the turning circle provided especially for the bus. The only trouble was there weren’t any house built at the time and it was quite a squeeze to get the bus through a building site. It also meant that you had to do the pointless loop before you could get off for Keynsham Station.

Now the houses have been built Keynsham Station, a short walk along the newly installed footpath link, is now busier than ever.

On a positive note the new estates at south Keynsham are being linked by a bus only road for the 349 to loop around. The only trouble is unless the council DYL the main estate roads the buses won’t be able to get past all the parked cars!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The argument I was making that isn't necessarily a public transport issue but if the tax system was changed to allow high streets to be more competitive (it is hard but it is possible) then the usage of cars wouldn't be as major issue as it might currently be. I'm not saying that alone would work but it would be a step. (Even reducing the tax burden on public transport, could reduce costs vs cars) but then this won't happen as no one would want to be seen to be giving a tax break to private companies in this way.

I understood what you were saying but it's much more nuanced than that. Yes, the online stores have a tax advantage that could be narrowed but they have much lower overheads than a bricks and mortar retailer. Someone like Amazon has so much purchasing power that they have lower purchase costs, modern automated distribution centres, and even the convenience of buying in store has narrowed with next day delivery.

To improve public transport, they really need to allow buses to avoid congestion.

Strange one that, it was a bit of a Chicken and the egg the way they started serving it before there was a market. The 17 went down to the old Manor House and turned in the turning circle provided especially for the bus. The only trouble was there weren’t any house built at the time and it was quite a squeeze to get the bus through a building site. It also meant that you had to do the pointless loop before you could get off for Keynsham Station.

Now the houses have been built Keynsham Station, a short walk along the newly installed footpath link, is now busier than ever.

On a positive note the new estates at south Keynsham are being linked by a bus only road for the 349 to loop around. The only trouble is unless the council DYL the main estate roads the buses won’t be able to get past all the parked cars!

It would've made more sense for the 17 to have S106 but to have delayed it for the first year? As for your last point, that's exactly what I'm on about!! Daren't upset the local residents though....

 

[freetoview33]

In another bit of news there is a trial on the 24 this week. Telling people what seats to use. Signage ect.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

In another bit of news there is a trial on the 24 this week. Telling people what seats to use. Signage ect.

I can't see that working well on the 8, not unless its temporarily deckered or duplicated.

 

[Dai Corner]

Announcement from FWoE

First West of England to trial new social distancing measures ahead of workers’ return | Bristol, Bath and the West | First Bus

First West of England will begin a trial of new social distancing measures on its route 24 service as part of its plans to be well prepared for workers returning to work, as and when government guidance changes. Under the new measures being piloted by First West of England signs will be put in...

www.firstgroup.com

First West of England will begin a trial of new social distancing measures on its route 24 service as part of its plans to be well prepared for workers returning to work, as and when government guidance changes.

Under the new measures being piloted by First West of England signs will be put in place to advise passengers on where to sit and some areas will be taped off.

All buses on route 24 will display the new social distancing signage from Monday 4th May, as part of the trial.

The bus operator intends to roll out the new seating arrangement to all First West of England services, if the trial proves successful in helping customers to social distance.

Alongside the new seating arrangements for passengers, selected services in Bristol and Bath will also see an increase in capacity from the beginning of this week (w/c Monday 4th May), to ensure a safe social distancing environment in line with government guidance as some workers start to return.

Bristol services 2 (Cribbs Causeway to Stockwood), 4 (Cribbs Causeway to City Centre), 17 (Southmead to Keynsham), 24 (Southmead Hospital to Ashton Vale) and Bath Service 5 (Bath Bus Station to Whiteway) will double in capacity at specific times on weekdays between selected stops. On Bristol services 43 (City Centre to Bitton), 45 (City Centre to Cadbury Heath) and 48/49 (City Centre to Emersons Green) capacity will also double at specific higher demand times, with extra buses running 5 minutes ahead of schedule on parts of the route.

James Freeman, managing director at First West of England said: “We are closely monitoring our services to ensure that social distancing is being observed at all times for the wellbeing of our passengers and drivers.

“Now that we are seeing the first signs of workers returning, we have reviewed our social distancing arrangements on our buses. In addition to creating extra capacity at busier times of the day, our new seating pilot on service 24 will act as a visual guide to show customers how they can maintain social distancing whilst travelling by bus. If it proves effective in helping both our customers and drivers, we will introduce it to all of our services across the region in preparation for more employees returning to work.

“I’d like to thank all customers for their ongoing co-operation at this time and would ask that they follow this new seating advice so we can do our utmost to keep everyone safe.

“We continue to regularly clean all touch points on our buses and our drivers are supplied with protective equipment such as disposable gloves. NHS advice is also displayed on our buses reinforcing the need for passengers to follow Government guidance.”

Freeman added: “We are working closely with West of England Combined Authority and the Local Authorities across the region to maintain a sufficient level of service. As we see a small rise in patronage on some routes, we are putting on extra buses for certain stops, to ensure there is the right level of capacity for social distancing.

“The situation is constantly changing and I’m extremely grateful to all our drivers and staff who are working hard to keep our vital bus services running for key workers.”

 

[lx12ddo]

I might be mistaken but wasn’t it said on here that the LK55 Solars have moved out of Bath? If so, 65725 is tracking on the 5 today. Did anyone see what this actually was when it did the D1 yesterday? I’ll pop out in about an hour or so to catch (a picture of) it anyway. But would be interesting to know what I’m looking out for beforehand

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I might be mistaken but wasn’t it said on here that the LK55 Solars have moved out of Bath? If so, 65725 is tracking on the 5 today. Did anyone see what this actually was when it did the D1 yesterday? I’ll pop out in about an hour or so to catch (a picture of) it anyway. But would be interesting to know what I’m looking out for beforehand

65724 and 65725 are most definitely now in Cornwall

 

[lx12ddo]

65725 is in fact 69443 in disguise. See both 5 vehicles below

 

[DaveHarries]

From tomorrow more buses are out and about
[..]
In Bristol:
[..]
Service 4 - Mon-Fri peak time journeys duplicated between Shirehampton/Sea Mills and city centre

Saw one of these in Stoke Bishop yesterday evening and it was one of the green ones from Service 73. Failed to note registration or vehicle number but I will keep my eyes open for it again later today.

Dave

 

[freetoview33]

Saw one of these in Stoke Bishop yesterday evening and it was one of the green ones from Service 73. Failed to note registration or vehicle number but I will keep my eyes open for it again later today.

Dave

I will keep a look at later in the week when I'm at work too

 

[Marcus Fryer]

I will keep a look at later in the week when I'm at work too

Bustimes tracker shows the following:
39464 on the 48/48A/49 yesterday and 43 today
39466 on the 48/49 yesterday and 17 today
39468 on the 3/4 yesterday and 1/2 today
It also shows 39422 working journeys on the 24 and 70 yesterday, and 39445 working journeys on the 24 and one journey on the 70 today.
These are all from the tracker, and therefore observations that back them up are useful.
As only three buses are needed for the 73 at present, it makes sense to use the other Citylines 73 buses on service duplicates.
Incidentally, the tracker shows the full origin/destination of the journeys that are being duplicated (e.g. Cribbs Causeway/Hengrove/Southmead) and not the actual origins/destinations of the buses providing the duplicated journeys.

 

[freetoview33]

On the topic of duplicates I can remember the days of there being 9 service 20 buses between 7am and 8am from Westbury Village to Redcliffe! Those were the days.