First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

KendalKing

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regarding flags, Cornwall council banned operators from touching them 2 years ago, and told operators they’d be taking control of flags and have them sorted within 12 weeks... 2 years ago!
If you think that is bad, where I lived about 17-years ago, we were promised that five bus stops were to be flagged, todate only one has been flagged, and that was two years ago!
 
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Whiteway215

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RC
Would these stay for a long time even when the mmc return or when the e400 return will the alx 400s go
No doubt at the appropriate time Kernow management will kindly give us more information about the incoming vehicles through the much appreciated 'Kernow Behind the Scenes'
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Temporary in the sense of until all loans are released from Hinckley Point?
Guess there's two things that spring to mind....
  1. What is going to replace the fleet currently employed at HP3? Further externally hired vehicles?
  2. What is going to operate the additional schools and the Cornwall College services that FSW has won?
Certainly, the Tridents seemed cosmetically to be better cared for than the Essex and Cymru ones that Bristol had. The blue Bath Unibus B7TLs did get a spruce up and seem in much nicer nick than the W reg purple examples or 30877.
 

baza585

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1 Aug 2010
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Guess there's two things that spring to mind....
  1. What is going to replace the fleet currently employed at HP3? Further externally hired vehicles?
  2. What is going to operate the additional schools and the Cornwall College services that FSW has won?
Certainly, the Tridents seemed cosmetically to be better cared for than the Essex and Cymru ones that Bristol had. The blue Bath Unibus B7TLs did get a spruce up and seem in much nicer nick than the W reg purple examples or 30877.
My guess is that the Geminis (including 37165 which is still in bits in Southampton) are for school/college work, and the older Tridents/Volvos will back fill for the on loan E40Ds.
 

Lizard1324

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19 Feb 2020
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Currently Cornwall council have procured FK to run 4 additional vehicles a day on Truro park and ride.
my vehicle for today was Ex Portsmouth park and ride 37161,
I wouldn't be surprised if / when they renew the p+r vehicles they chose double deckers and likely a alternative power source
 

cnjb8

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26 Feb 2019
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Nottingham
Guess there's two things that spring to mind....
  1. What is going to replace the fleet currently employed at HP3? Further externally hired vehicles?
  2. What is going to operate the additional schools and the Cornwall College services that FSW has won?
Certainly, the Tridents seemed cosmetically to be better cared for than the Essex and Cymru ones that Bristol had. The blue Bath Unibus B7TLs did get a spruce up and seem in much nicer nick than the W reg purple examples or 30877.
I guess they were using the deckers for social distancing, which raises more questions then it answers as to when they return
 

Busaholic

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7 Jun 2014
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The blue E400 that have returned do not seem to be using scrolling route indicators any more, is that a permanent change?
Noticed that on the 18.40 departure on the U4 from Penzance this evening. I was amazed to see a Rosudgeon destination for this bus: not one I've ever seen before on the 2 group or the U4, and my experience of these routes goes back 32 years this month. Whereabouts does it turn: the Falmouth Packet car park?
 

Goldfish62

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Guess there's two things that spring to mind....
  1. What is going to replace the fleet currently employed at HP3? Further externally hired vehicles?
  2. What is going to operate the additional schools and the Cornwall College services that FSW has won?
Certainly, the Tridents seemed cosmetically to be better cared for than the Essex and Cymru ones that Bristol had. The blue Bath Unibus B7TLs did get a spruce up and seem in much nicer nick than the W reg purple examples or 30877.
Sooner or later SPS is going to have to lease dealer stock as it does for the bulk of its fleet.
 

Goldfish62

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That's what I was alluding to in the first point :D

Ancient deckers can only be a stop gap and the various mmc will need to return
Indeed. Even if they were no longer required for FK I doubt if Firstgroup would be happy with using quite highly specified buses long term on a contract that only requires basic spec Euro VI.
 

carlberry

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Sooner or later SPS is going to have to lease dealer stock as it does for the bulk of its fleet.
I suspect the bulk of the fleet would be on long leases whereas they still don't know how long they need the current extras for. And I suspect the delivery timescale for deckers is still poor even if there are not many new orders going in now.
 

CD

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Sooner or later SPS is going to have to lease dealer stock as it does for the bulk of its fleet.
FSW make far more profit using their own vehicles on SPS.
If Kernow need any extra vehicles then the last batch of Tridents sent to BoS are still sitting around doing nothing, although still taxed. BoS still only running 50% of its services and no likelihood of that changing.
 

richw

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Indeed. Even if they were no longer required for FK I doubt if Firstgroup would be happy with using quite highly specified buses long term on a contract that only requires basic spec Euro VI.
Why wouldn’t FG be happy when they’re earning high hire fees. Much more than they’d be earning in service in Cornwall At the moment. The hire fees are going towards making FSW much more viable than most other places during covid
 

Goldfish62

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Why wouldn’t FG be happy when they’re earning high hire fees. Much more than they’d be earning in service in Cornwall At the moment. The hire fees are going towards making FSW much more viable than most other places during covid
Yes, I'm fully aware of the reasons. However, if they're no longer required in Cornwall they'd be much more appropriate on high profile routes elsewhere in the country than on a bog standard works contract. I'm sure are there plenty of operating companies that would have a good case for taking them on, displacing older vehicles.
 
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Goldfish62

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FSW make far more profit using their own vehicles on SPS.
If Kernow need any extra vehicles then the last batch of Tridents sent to BoS are still sitting around doing nothing, although still taxed. BoS still only running 50% of its services and no likelihood of that changing.
In which case FSW needs to decide at some stage whether these buses are permanently transferred to SPS and the previous policy of using cascaded near-life expired vehicles on local bus services is resumed.

Incidentally, on profits, what are the numbers involved?
 

richw

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In which case FSW needs to decide at some stage whether these buses are permanently transferred to SPS and the previous policy of using cascaded near-life expired vehicles on local bus services is resumed.

Incidentally, on profits, what are the numbers involved?
No because if they transfer to Hinckley, FSW won’t gain from the additional hire fees. FSW have transferred in temporary old stock to cover the MMCs whilst Hinckley require additional vehicles for social distancing. EDF (as the operator of Hinckley) pay for the hire of additional vehicles.
The vehicles are required in Cornwall hence the need to bring in temporary replacements. The hire fee is too lucrative to skip over for FSW!
 

Goldfish62

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No because if they transfer to Hinckley, FSW won’t gain from the additional hire fees. FSW have transferred in temporary old stock to cover the MMCs whilst Hinckley require additional vehicles for social distancing. EDF (as the operator of Hinckley) pay for the hire of additional vehicles.
The vehicles are required in Cornwall hence the need to bring in temporary replacements. The hire fee is too lucrative to skip over for FSW!
Yes, I know. I'm talking about long term, which I think was also the original question that sparked this debate.

I think the question, which we obviously don't know the answer to yet, is whether the MMCs at SPS will be required back in Cornwall long term. With the economics of local bus services now in tatters one way of achieving economies would be to use fully depreciated vehicles.

Given that the current arrangement is so lucrative it can't be the best value for money long term for EDF, who will at some stage want to formalise more permanent arrangements. But then that probably can't be done until we know how long social distancing will last. It could be for ever of course!
 

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