First Trenitalia (Avanti!) WCML branding, naming and livery

[Bletchleyite]

I actually thought that was a great advert much better than the arrive awesome which is just cringeworthy. But yes very virgin and probably not cheap to make! LNER advertise on telly so I would imagine Avanti will also.

Oddly, of course, the way it's done is much more the way GWR have gone with branding these days! I do agree it's a great advert, though.

It does appear (unless it's a Photoshop job) they reseated a Pendolino standard coach to all-tables to film that. Coach D in the Voyager is laid out like that, but it wasn't at the time that advert was made, and the pictures do show a Pendolino.

 

[Energy]

Another factor which can lead to companies advertising in this way is that they don't own the tracks, so Virgin are already at the max capacity of the tracks and can't upgrade them, the most they can do is better customer service, so that is what they advertise.

 

[Roose]

This advert seems to sum up the type of hype VT wanted to create over their brand and trains. It's not an advert advertising convenient commuter times or good value fares, it's more about the romance and excitement of the train itself.

Like companies such as Apple, Virgin try to sell an image rather than a product - thus tending to disguise the often-poor value-for-money.

 

[pt_mad]

Virgin don't run trains for commuters, or simply to provide good value fares, so it's not surprising they didn't emphasise those in their adverts. They are a long distance operator, competing with air and coach.

They do run trains for commuters from places like Rugby and Milton Keynes, the peak Trent Valley services to and from London, and throughout the West Midlands corridor and some would argue between Wilmslow and Manchester.

But I get the point the ads were to target the long distance market. With the exception of the first Pendolino ad they did with the lady having the baby on board, which seemed to show mainly commuters onboard.

Still all this was surely aimed at building their brand as something special, which is the broad point many are making.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Indeed. It seemed at the time they were deliberately running down the existing stock to make the Pendolinos and Voyagers look better when they were eventually introduced.

There was no "seemed" about it, that was definitely the case. As well as very frequent failures of 47/8s there were plenty of coaching stock issues especially HVAC failures. So the new stock was greeted with open arms despite the shortcomings which soon became clear...

 

[Rick1984]

I remember stories about fleas in the fabric of seats in coaches from early days of Virgin

 

[pt_mad]

Indeed. It seemed at the time they were deliberately running down the existing stock to make the Pendolinos and Voyagers look better when they were eventually introduced.

The ironic thing being that shortly after FGW and GNER showed what could be done with a MK3 to give them some of the most pleasant interiors of all UK rolling stock at the time. Come to mention it ScotRail are still doing it today.

 

[185]

My understanding of Italian state ownership of public utilities:

 

[USRailFan]

At least Mussolini was said to have made the trains run on time... :P

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

At least Mussolini was said to have made the trains run on time... :P

I think that's an urban myth.
He did spend a lot of money on the railways though, including the first "direttissima" routes, some impressively long tunnels and grandiose station facades such as Milano Centrale.
All part of the "New Roman Empire".

 

[I13]

390009 is now in neutral livery

 

[EE Andy b1]

390009 is now in neutral livery

Livery list updated #491 page 17.

390155 freshly painted leaving Alstom Tech Widnes 19/11/19.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P58799/2019-11-19/detailed

This should be 390156 next to last 390 going for re-paint, 20/11/19.
Could this be the first in a new First Trenitalia livery? or still just neutral!

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P58800/2019-11-20/detailed

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I think that's an urban myth.
He did spend a lot of money on the railways though, including the first "direttissima" routes, some impressively long tunnels and grandiose station facades such as Milano Centrale.
All part of the "New Roman Empire".

Correct - there were some very good General Managers - Bianchi being one who restored order after WW1 , and another one (Carlo ? -something) , who was the Sir Herbert Walker of his day - who did a huge amount of modernisation and generally tightening up the railway organisation , much as the Nord / SNCF had Raoul Dutry (sic) and Julias Doppermuller on the Reichsbahn (sic) again - the latter maybe a bit too close to the 1930's politicians / leaders - but both RD / JD were very dedicated and skilled operators (one gathers)

Very interesting to go through Milano Central to see the sheer grandeur of the station and the carvings of the 1920' and 30' era , - and I have to say in my limited experience of "FS" , pretty good on punctuality and especially on affordability.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very interesting to go through Milano Central to see the sheer grandeur of the station and the carvings of the 1920' and 30' era , - and I have to say in my limited experience of "FS" , pretty good on punctuality and especially on affordability.

Milano Centrale is a proper "temple of transport" - a wonderful building - though they've made a bit of a mess of it (as have SNCF where they've done it) with the implementation of the ticket barriers. Mostly the UK has been doing it long enough not to mess station layouts up with barriers, even awkward ones. The only one I can think of where they really do make a mess of it in the UK is Manc Vic, which is a nasty station anyway.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Milano Centrale is a proper "temple of transport" - a wonderful building - though they've made a bit of a mess of it (as have SNCF where they've done it) with the implementation of the ticket barriers. Mostly the UK has been doing it long enough not to mess station layouts up with barriers, even awkward ones. The only one I can think of where they really do make a mess of it in the UK is Manc Vic, which is a nasty station anyway.

I suspect the Milan barriers are related to external issues viz a viz terrorism. Tightly controlled , but you can sympathize with that.

Agreed , magnificent building -

 

[boyaloud]

Funny having to use train type names for services like Pendolino and Azumas.

Good job they dont use the nicknames tho.

Welcome aboard this Transport for Wales
Dog box(cl 153) service from Swansea to Shrewsbury lol.
At least a Pacer sounds quicker lol.

Company names can be hilariously used too.
C2C for instance...
Travel from C2C?
Why bother getting on if you are getting off the same stop!

Wonder if all the EMR trains go to Kingsbury?

what does c2c actually stand for? City to coast?

 

[transmanche]

what does c2c actually stand for? City to coast?

Nothing. Or anything you want it to.

The name c2c doesn't mean anything specific. In a sense it can mean anything you want it to. Its uniqueness reflects the young, vibrant character of the people we serve. c2c could stand for coast to capital, or capital to coast. From our point of view, one of the most important things it stands for is commitment to customers.

 

[mde]

http://www.buytickets.avantiwestcoast.co.uk is now resolving to a Trainline server (toc.thetrainline.com), similar to the existing Virgin site.

There is merely an error on the page at the moment, but, this does seem to be further evidence of what the brand is likely to be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nothing. Or anything you want it to.

That "commitment to customers" one is cringeworthy. I recall a friend who worked for them ages ago saying if they were to be asked what HSBC stood for (this was just after they stopped being the Midland Bank) they should say it stood for "quality". I wonder how many staff assaults occurred as a direct result of that.

 

[DarloRich]

I am standing by for the wailing and gnashing of teeth on hand over day. it will be fun to watch.

meanwhile in the real world nothing will change.

 

[EE Andy b1]

I am standing by for the wailing and gnashing of teeth on hand over day. it will be fun to watch.

meanwhile in the real world nothing will change.

I don't think so. Not been the same for the last few years, more Stagecoach influence!!

No change, for now and things will carry on.

 

[sprunt]

That "commitment to customers" one is cringeworthy.

Moreso than "the young, vibrant character of the people we serve"? I'm not sure when I think of Southend, vibrancy and youth is the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Moreso than "the young, vibrant character of the people we serve"? I'm not sure when I think of Southend, vibrancy and youth is the first thing that comes to mind.

I dunno, there is an acting-oriented university there, a friend went to it.

 

[sprinterguy]

Just saw 390157 at Wolverhampton working 9M55 12:00 Glasgow Central - London Euston, still in fully branded Virgin red/silver livery of course: A unique unit now!

 

[EE Andy b1]

Just saw 390157 at Wolverhampton working 9M55 12:00 Glasgow Central - London Euston, still in fully branded Virgin red/silver livery of course: A unique unit now!

Yep 390156 in for paint tomorrow, 157 the last should be in at Widnes on the 4th December, get your last photos while you can.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yep 390156 in for paint tomorrow, 157 the last should be in at Widnes on the 4th December, get your last photos while you can.

Yeah was surprised to subsequently see 390156 pulling into Macclesfield on the (late running) 15:00 Euston - Man Picc!

 

[pdeaves]

157 the last should be in at Widnes on the 4th December, get your last photos while you can.

How long does it take to redo? Could this be the franchise launch unit? There's usually one in new colours on start day.

 

[EE Andy b1]

How long does it take to redo? Could this be the franchise launch unit? There's usually one in new colours on start day.

2 weeks to repaint. 156 should be back out on the 3rd December, 6 days after the new First Trenitalia brand announcement and 5 days before FT take over the West Coast franchise, so could be new livery, 157 not due out until the 17th December or we might have to wait until the 390s start to be refurbished.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Yeah was surprised to subsequently see 390156 pulling into Macclesfield on the (late running) 15:00 Euston - Man Picc!

390156 should be 1A59 1735 Manchester Picc - Euston then 1F27 2007 Euston - Liverpool LS, ECS to Edge Hill for 5F01 0020 Edge Hill to Alstom Tech Widnes.

 

[voyagerdude220]

2 weeks to repaint. 156 should be back out on the 3rd December, 6 days after the new First Trenitalia brand announcement and 5 days before FT take over the West Coast franchise, so could be new livery, 157 not due out until the 17th December or we might have to wait until the 390s start to be refurbished.

Apologies a little off topic, but does anyone possibly have an up to date list of which VT 221s have had their nameplates/logos removed? Will they all be removed by December? Thanks in advance.