First Trenitalia (Avanti!) WCML branding, naming and livery

[nlogax]

My guess is VTWC will be missed by plenty. Am relying on them a great deal at the moment (am writing this while on Pendo bound for Manchester) and they’ve been excellent in my experience.

Not sure I get why some here are being quite so damned sour about them marking the end of their West Coast tenure. Why shouldn’t they have some fun at this stage?

 

[ashkeba]

This may be an unpopular opinion but I loved the Barbie livery. And if by "Nightclub" you mean the dynamic lines livery then I loved that too, far better than GWR's achingly dull green livery.

I can only hope First/Trenitalia bring dynamic lines back, but unfortunately we'll probably end up with a boring monotone livery like GWR and EMR...

Are you head of branding at First?

I suspect most of us are now hoping that First disappoint you but fearing that they will not! How do you feel about orange triangles, either on their own or repeated in a pattern along the ends of the train fading out?

 

[ashkeba]

Not sure I get why some here are being quite so damned sour about them marking the end of their West Coast tenure. Why shouldn’t they have some fun at this stage?

Because Virgin seem to be celebrating their poor passengers switching to Worst Bus running things and possibly their loved Pendolinos replaced by 5-car Hitachis (they will say 2x5 but it enables short forms) with crammed-in ironing boards and no buffets?

 

[coradiafan2000]

Are you head of branding at First?

I suspect most of us are now hoping that First disappoint you but fearing that they will not! How do you feel about orange triangles, either on their own or repeated in a pattern along the ends of the train fading out?

If I was head of branding at First I wouldn't be criticising their current livery. The orange triangles sound like a livery I wouldn't personally like. It sounds similar to West Midlands Railway's livery, which I'm not a fan of personally.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you head of branding at First?

To be fair I'm a big fan of Dynamic Lines, I long thought it a shame there wasn't a bus version. The pastel bus livery isn't nice in comparison.

I suspect most of us are now hoping that First disappoint you but fearing that they will not! How do you feel about orange triangles, either on their own or repeated in a pattern along the ends of the train fading out?

DB Rheinland-Pfalz triangles livery on a FLIRT

perhaps?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because Virgin seem to be celebrating their poor passengers switching to Worst Bus running things and possibly their loved Pendolinos replaced by 5-car Hitachis (they will say 2x5 but it enables short forms) with crammed-in ironing boards and no buffets?

1. 80x (or whatever) are to replace Voyagers, not Pendolinos.
2. 80x, if it is those (and I'm pretty sure it will be, to be honest) are 26m rather than 23m vehicles with a far better interior layout, so a 5 car is probably equivalent to a 6 car Voyager.

So panic not

 

[nlogax]

Because Virgin seem to be celebrating their poor passengers switching to Worst Bus running things and possibly their loved Pendolinos replaced by 5-car Hitachis (they will say 2x5 but it enables short forms) with crammed-in ironing boards and no buffets?

Tosh. They're certainly not celebrating losing the franchise to First. Amazingly it is possible to commemorate the end of something without implying anything about the successor.

 

[transmanche]

And if by "Nightclub" you mean the dynamic lines livery then I loved that too, far better than GWR's achingly dull green livery.

I believe that 'nightclub' refers to this livery, which has representations of neon lights and was only used on First Capital Connect.


Thameslink class 319 no. 319452, still in First Capital Connect livery, at Bedford on a service to Brighton, 16/12/2014. by MKT Transport Photography, on Flickr

 

[ashkeba]

Tosh. They're certainly not celebrating losing the franchise to First. Amazingly it is possible to commemorate the end of something without implying anything about the successor.

OK, if it is tosh, why do you think some passengers are unhappy with Virgin celebrating?

I really do think some resentment is because Beardy will not have to deal with First. Beardy will use his limo. Passengers will have to cope with First. Beardy is rubbing their noses in it.

Do you often celebrate expected pain by holding a party?

 

[ScottGallagher]

Will this actually be on TV ? Barry from Eastenders doesn't change does he!

 

[nlogax]

OK, if it is tosh, why do you think some passengers are unhappy with Virgin celebrating?

I really do think some resentment is because Beardy will not have to deal with First. Beardy will use his limo. Passengers will have to cope with First. Beardy is rubbing their noses in it.

Do you often celebrate expected pain by holding a party?

I don't know how many different ways it's possible to explain VTWC aren't implying anything about the upcoming First experience, but hey, let's find out. Apparently you've already made your mind up before they've even taken over the franchise. Well done.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I believe that 'nightclub' refers to this livery, which has representations of neon lights and was only used on First Capital Connect.


Thameslink class 319 no. 319452, still in First Capital Connect livery, at Bedford on a service to Brighton, 16/12/2014. by MKT Transport Photography, on Flickr

Oh that one! Another livery I miss. Although apparently I'm alone in that opinion. Surely people still think it's better than the plain white seen on Thameslink's 700s?

 

[bramling]

Because Virgin seem to be celebrating their poor passengers switching to Worst Bus running things and possibly their loved Pendolinos replaced by 5-car Hitachis (they will say 2x5 but it enables short forms) with crammed-in ironing boards and no buffets?

I don’t see why Virgin shouldn’t celebrate the end of a successful franchise. Whilst the trains for sure haven’t been to everyone’s taste (although they seem to have grown on people over time), and I’m not over keen on the Virgin publicity machine, operationally once it found its feet after the initial rocky start this franchise has been top-notch.

 

[pdeaves]

Do you often celebrate expected pain by holding a party?

When a relative turned 90 we had a party. Not celebrating 'ha, you're getting ever more old and infirm and your arthritis hurts' but celebrating 'we've had some great times together, well done on what you've achieved with your life'.

 

[adamello]

And hey - if virgin make a big song and dance about not having the franchise any longer, then they can try and distance themselves from the future operation, they dont want it being run into the ground and the virgin brand being damaged.

 

[ashkeba]

I don't know how many different ways it's possible to explain VTWC aren't implying anything about the upcoming First experience, but hey, let's find out. Apparently you've already made your mind up before they've even taken over the franchise. Well done.

I have not made my mind up! I answered your question at https://www.railforums.co.uk/posts/4297083 about why people may feel that Virgin should not celebrate losing the franchise but now I think maybe you could have been insincere and knew this reason but disagreed with it.

 

[ashkeba]

Oh that one! Another livery I miss. Although apparently I'm alone in that opinion. Surely people still think it's better than the plain white seen on Thameslink's 700s?

I prefer the grey with blue of current Thameslink to FCC's confusing mess. At least I can see where the accessible and bike areas are now! Branding should not obstruct usability. At least with VT trains going plain-ish, I can still hope FT put some nice big symbols on it!

 

[xc170]

It'll be a shame to see the Virgin branding gone.

I feel for the staff, after 20 years of working for a decent company, it must be depressing knowing what is around the corner...

 

[Clip]

I believe that 'nightclub' refers to this livery, which has representations of neon lights and was only used on First Capital Connect.


Thameslink class 319 no. 319452, still in First Capital Connect livery, at Bedford on a service to Brighton, 16/12/2014. by MKT Transport Photography, on Flickr

I was in a northern 319 today that still had the pink interior and reminisced about how much I actually miss them and that colour running through London

 

[LowLevel]

That's another thing. The staff have always seemed genuinely proud to work for Virgin - there was a lot of ill feeling in 2007 about who got to stay with Virgin and who got hived off to Cross Country. I can honestly say most frontline staff don't care a fig about their employer or the parent company behind them but Virgin is the exception.

The staff at Wolverhampton were also less than pleased with their transfer to WMR as I understand it.

I generally consider that I run a public train service for my passengers while working for the railway - I rarely give much consideration to my employer etc particularly as they're effectively here today, gone tomorrow.

 

[Energy]

Virgin care for their staff, they know the few things they can do themselves is customer service and the happy staff give better service. Probably one of the things which have let virgin turn the WCML around.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The staff at Wolverhampton were also less than pleased with their transfer to WMR as I understand it.

I don't blame them given the dire state of that TOC.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I prefer the grey with blue of current Thameslink to FCC's confusing mess. At least I can see where the accessible and bike areas are now! Branding should not obstruct usability. At least with VT trains going plain-ish, I can still hope FT put some nice big symbols on it!

That's a valid point. But surely there's a way to make trains look more interesting without compromising usability?

 

[yorkie]

Can we please stick to discussing First Trenitalia WCML branding, naming and livery in this thread.

People are welcome to create a new thread to discuss anything else of course.

Thanks.

 

[Trackman]

So it's goodbye to Virgin Trains with this ironic video...

https://twitter.com/VirginTrains/status/1197409307601469441?s=08

"Saw the writing on the wall..."

To keep it on topic, this a reverse FTWC livery post!

After watching this, I wonder if the recently sold 87002/86101 rebranding rumour to Virgin trains for the final day is true?
They are outside a paint-shop now.
Can't see it happening, what with lack of stock etc.. but it would be nice.

 

[coradiafan2000]

To keep it on topic, this a reverse FTWC livery post!

After watching this, I wonder if the recently sold 87002/86101 rebranding rumour to Virgin trains for the final day is true?
They are outside a paint-shop now.
Can't see it happening, what with lack of stock etc.. but it would be nice.

That would be great! Perhaps Virgin could use them for farewell tours? Or at least put them next to 390s to show far the WCML has come over the last two decades.

Slightly more ambitious, but I'd like to see a return of the "Pretendolino" set, although I doubt anyone would want to go to the effort of getting the Mk3s in Virgin livery for a one off event.

 

[EE Andy b1]

That would be great! Perhaps Virgin could use them for farewell tours? Or at least put them next to 390s to show far the WCML has come over the last two decades.

Slightly more ambitious, but I'd like to see a return of the "Pretendolino" set, although I doubt anyone would want to go to the effort of getting the Mk3s in Virgin livery for a one off event.

The Mk3s still are in a faded Pretendolino livery at Crewe LNWR (Arriva) carriage sidings after TPE failed to use them apart from a quick trip to Manchester Airport.
I would hate to guess what state they are in internally now though after sitting for months doing nothing.

 

[pt_mad]

Think it was mentioned that VT have been issuing plain coloured bits of uniform.

Wonder whether FT will bring in hi visibility vests at stations? I can't recall a First operated TOC which doesn't (or didn't) wear them for platform duties?

 

[pt_mad]

So it's goodbye to Virgin Trains with this ironic video...

https://twitter.com/VirginTrains/status/1197409307601469441?s=08

"Saw the writing on the wall..."

Now this was an advert....

The unsung glory of the WCML perhaps?

 

[Winthorpe]

I will miss many aspects of the Virgin Trains franchise. Their website and apps have always been the best in the UK. They have made buying tickets much easier and much more convenient. I hope First Trenitalia can keep on innovating in this area.

I won't miss the more jarring elements of the brand. I'm thinking here of the 'toilet door locked' annoucement. I liked it the first few times that I heard it...but less so by the 1000th time!

Hopefully First Trenitalia can find an happy medium.

(Corrected spelling: First Transitalia => First Trenitalia)