First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[Zoe]

In any case I think you'll find that the majority of people looking back on the company who was awarded the franchise (National Express) did little apart from paying high levels of premium with zero investment. So whilst the DFT may think they 'won' the passengers certainly didn't.

In the end though First were on the shortlist for Greater Anglia through ownership of GB Railways.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Thats whats reported by RAILS 'Insider', not my assertion. They did a feature on it a couple of weeks ago.

Yes - although again it was more of an assumption. I've seen nowhere a quote from someone in First saying that was the case, or an article saying that someone in First said that this is why they dropped the action.

Many people, both on forums and in magazines have their views about it but generally they are their opinions or feelings rather than hard facts.

 

[Metroland]

Because the West Coast competition has been cancelled, there is no longer any need for a High Court hearing to test Virgin's case against the DfT, which had been set down for three days starting on 17 October.

The implications are considerable, because the DfT's admission must now put the 2013 franchising programme in jeopardy. Four franchises were due to be renewed next year – Essex Thameside (currently c2c), Greater Western, Thameslink and East Coast, but the letting processes are now suspended.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2012/10/03-franchising-in-tatters-as-dft.html

 

[Eagle]

In the end though First were on the shortlist for Greater Anglia through ownership of GB Railways.

Although of course they didn't own GBR at the time the shortlist was announced in April 2003 (I believe it was later in the year that they did, because the price was dependent on which franchises they ended up winning).

 

[wintonian]

The BBC's view:

West Coast Main Line deal ditched

Ministers have scrapped the decision to award the West Coast Main Line rail franchise to FirstGroup saying the bidding process was flawed.

The contract - awarded in August - was immediately challenged in the courts by Virgin Trains, which lost out.

Ministers say there were "significant technical flaws" in the way the risks for each bid were calculated and say the bidding process must be rerun.

They have also ordered two independent reviews into what happened.

One will examine how the West Coast franchise competition went wrong, and what lessons can be learned.
'Deeply regrettable'

The other review will look into the wider Department for Transport rail franchise programme.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin described the mistakes made by his department as "deeply regrettable and completely unacceptable".

He said: "A detailed examination by my officials into what happened has revealed these flaws, and means it is no longer acceptable to award a new franchise on the basis of the competition that was held.

"West Coast passengers can rest assured that while we seek urgently to resolve the future arrangements the trains that run now will continue to run with the same drivers, the same staff and timetables as planned."

FirstGroup was due to take over train services on the line - one of Britain's busiest - in December.

The Department for Transport said because of the decision to rerun the bidding process it would no longer be contesting the judicial review launched by Virgin Trains in the High Court.

And it said an announcement would be made about the suspension of staff while the investigation into the mistakes is carried out.

BBC

Does this mean First Group will now be in-line for some compensation?

 

[F Great Eastern]

The irony of the whole thing was Tim Clarke, who was the MD of Anglia Railways, who were later bought by First, ended up working for National Express, and what a poor job he did in my view too.

 

[Whistler40145]

At what level is it decided how to re-work the franchise process?

 

[Realfish]

and a big argument over whether they could bring in the 11 car Pendolinos during that extension with the Dft not wanting them too. Eventually Virgin won and the Dft agreed to fund the scheduled introduction of the 11 car pendos.

I remember at the time (according to Rail, I think) that VT and DfT had a big fall-out over this. If I remember correctly, VT themselves offered to pay for the 3 additional sets and extensions, in return for a further two (?) year extension, but DfT refused. I think that a production run was missed resulting in a further £100m+ loss for the taxpayer when the order was eventually placed.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I remember at the time (according to Rail, I think) that VT and DfT had a big fall-out over this. If I remember correctly, VT themselves offered to pay for the 3 additional sets and extensions, in return for a further two (?) year extension, but DfT refused. I think that a production run was missed resulting in a further £100m+ loss for the taxpayer when the order was eventually placed.

And quite rightly, it is not of the job of any TOC to dictate what terms they would like from the DFT. The DFT is the one that does the contracting, not the other way around.

 

[WatcherZero]

First have done an interview for ITV saying they are 'Deeply dissapointed' and had no inkling that the process was in Jeapordy until informed by the Dft today recieving repeated assurances that the Dft's process was robust. The Dft has assured them they did nothing wrong but it was the Dfts assessment of their bid that was at fault. They say they will wait for the result of the independent inquiry.

 

[Eagle]

And quite rightly, it is not of the job of any TOC to dictate what terms they would like from the DFT.

Although there should not be any harm in the TOC asking.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Statements below:
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2012-10-03/west-coast-decision-cancelled/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Although there should not be any harm in the TOC asking.

Of course they are free to ask, but not dictate.

 

[WatcherZero]

I remember at the time (according to Rail, I think) that VT and DfT had a big fall-out over this. If I remember correctly, VT themselves offered to pay for the 3 additional sets and extensions, in return for a further two (?) year extension, but DfT refused. I think that a production run was missed resulting in a further £100m+ loss for the taxpayer when the order was eventually placed.

The stock had been delivered and was sitting idle, under the original schedule the replacement franchise would have introduced them into service. Virgin said they would pay for the stock to be put into service themselves in return for (six, nine?) month extension to cover the costs while the Dft said it wanted them to sit idle, eventually Dft backed down and said it would give Virgin a shorter extension but pay for the introduction into service of them as scheduled itself.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Virgin Statement:
http://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/blog/virgin-trains-back-on-track

Branson clearly pushing to be awarded a longer franchise now. If he does ask to get the new franchise by default then that would be just as unfair as the bid he complained about.

 

[WatcherZero]

Tweet by Lib Dem President Tim Farron

I welcome the news that the government has agreed to re-run the West Coast Main Line tender. This time passengers must be listened to!

http://twitter.com/timfarron

 

[Realfish]

And quite rightly, it is not of the job of any TOC to dictate what terms they would like from the DFT. The DFT is the one that does the contracting, not the other way around.

Indeed. But as the DfT weren't prepared to cough up, VT suggested an alternative solution to the well documented problem of overcrowding. DfT's intransigence over the provision of the additional vehicles cost a significant amount of money.

 

[Whistler40145]

I hope so too.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I hope so too.

But seriously, when has passenger satisfaction ever played a real major part in franchise awards?

In some franchises several years ago the SRA (remember them?) were told categorically NOT to take it into account.

 

[YorkshireRider]

I agree with some posters on here that the costs of DOR taking a load of different franchises on just for the short term are too much, im sure there must be a way to allow the current companies to continue, even if it means signing new 6-12 month contracts rather than extending current ones.

Clearly Virgins lawyers were using the full 2 weeks after First was announced as winner, to build a case. It was obviously a good case which the dft have decided they had no chance of winning. While im sure there are many aspects to it, the security bond which First were asked to put up was clearly too low, and how they came to that figure must have been part of Virgins case.

 

[Eagle]

For reference, this is the timetable of when new franchises are currently due to start (extensions and truncations are of course possible). Notice how over two thirds of them are less than three years away. How many of these will be affected by the review process?

West Coast: December 2012
Essex Thamesside: May 2013
Greater Western: July 2013
SC-TL-GN: September 2013
East Coast: December 2013
Northern: March 2014
Kent: April 2014
Greater Anglia: September 2014
LOROL: November 2014
Scotland: November 2014
Transpennine: March 2015
East Midlands: April 2015
West Midlands: September 2015
CrossCountry: April 2016
South Western: February 2017
Wales and Borders: October 2018
Chiltern: 2022
Merseyrail: 2028

 

[fgwrich]

West Coast Main Line franchise competition cancelled
Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin has announced that the competition to run trains on the West Coast Main Line has been cancelled.
Press release byDepartment for Transport, 3 October 2012

Full press release
http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/press-releas ... -20121003a

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19809717

Ouch. Seems DOR are set to take over on December the 9th then, with all other future franchise lettings now to be put on hold indefinitely until this review is completed into franchise lettings. So in a way, a rather large own goal for ol' Beardie then - He's getting his franchise review, and loosing West Coast to the goverment's DOR at the same time.

I wonder what implications this could bring for First Group though? Not the first time the DfT has cocked up in front of First Group - First seem to play the Dft very well on FGW, but with First Groups current financial pressures?

 

[Zoe]

For reference, this is the timetable of when new franchises are currently due to start (extensions and truncations are of course possible). Notice how over two thirds of them are less than three years away. How many of these will be affected by the review process?

Not sure this would have any effect on London Overground tendering process as it's simply an operating concession let by TfL and not part of the DfT franchising process.

 

[Eagle]

Not sure this would effect LOROL as it's not part of the DfT franchising process.

Ditto Merseyrail and ScotRail, of course.

 

[EM2]

This bit from the BBC story caught my eye:

Ministers say there were "significant technical flaws" in the way the risks for each bid were calculated and say the bidding process must be rerun.

That suggests that it's not just First's bid that's the issue.
And it's ironic that if Virgin had won, these flaws may never have come to light, and Virgin would be running an illegally-won franchise.

 

[David]

I'm going to be slightly controversial here, and lay some of the blame at the door of the Labour party ....

They had 13 years to change the franchise system, but chose to do nothing. Also they (deliberately?) chose to award short franchises so all the end dates are in a pretty short timescale, thus putting added pressure on the next government.

 

[northernrail2009]

Do we know if First has come out with a comment yet?

 

[Metroland]

Do we know if First has come out with a comment yet?

FirstGroup said that until it was notified by the DfT last night, it had no indication there were any problems with the franchise process.

Until this point we had absolutely no indication that there were any issues with the franchise letting process and had received assurances from the DfT that its processes were robust and that it expected to sign the contract with FirstGroup soon.

We are extremely disappointed to learn this news and await the outcome of the DfT's inquiries.

The DfT has made it clear to us that we are in no way at fault, having followed the due process correctly.We submitted a strong bid, in good faith and in strict accordance with the DfT's terms.

– FIRSTGROUP

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/updat...ndication-over-west-coast-main-line-decision/

Sir Richard said he was "pleased" by the DfT's decision:

I am pleased to say that the DfT has looked at all of the facts and found significant flaws in the way it's officials handled the process. They have basically acknowledged that what we had been saying is correct. The same procedures were not followed and "deeply regrettable and completely unacceptable mistakes" were made by the Department.

At the House of Commons Select Committee we called for all franchise competitions to be paused and a thorough, independent review of the process. We are grateful that Patrick McLoughlin is now doing this.

We also appreciate the DfT publicly acknowledging these errors, and are hopeful they will now accept that Virgin Trains should carry on running the West Coast Main Line and ensure that passengers continue receiving our team's award-winning service.

– Sir Richard Branson

http://www.itv.com/news/2012-10-03/...ail-franchise-deal-with-firstgroup-cancelled/

 

[fgwrich]

Sir Richard said he was "pleased" by the DfT's decision:

I am pleased to say that the DfT has looked at all of the facts and found significant flaws in the way it's officials handled the process. They have basically acknowledged that what we had been saying is correct. The same procedures were not followed and "deeply regrettable and completely unacceptable mistakes" were made by the Department.

At the House of Commons Select Committee we called for all franchise competitions to be paused and a thorough, independent review of the process. We are grateful that Patrick McLoughlin is now doing this.

We also appreciate the DfT publicly acknowledging these errors, and are hopeful they will now accept that Virgin Trains should carry on running the West Coast Main Line and ensure that passengers continue receiving our team's award-winning service.

– Sir Richard Branson

http://www.itv.com/news/2012-10-03/...ail-franchise-deal-with-firstgroup-cancelled/

Ah, the typical Branson spin there - has he not heard of Directly Operated Railways? Looks like their now set to take over from December the 9th. Sorry Beardie, has your broadband been playing up down in the Caribbean?

Silver & Pink from December the 9th. Now, will it just be West Coast or Intercity West Coast? Anyone for swallows?

 

[wintonian]

This bit from the BBC story caught my eye:

That suggests that it's not just First's bid that's the issue.
And it's ironic that if Virgin had won, these flaws may never have come to light, and Virgin would be running an illegally-won franchise.

and what if these flaws are already present in Virgins existing franchise.

Hmm.

 

[northernrail2009]

Just said on the Radio 2 news that Virgin have been ask to carry on running services till they re-run it.