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First Group: General Discussion

Simon75

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Odham is the admin depot for Manchester. I believe they may transfer admin to Leeds (Bramley) before selling that
 
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158756

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They wont need an admin department for First Manchester is Oldham is sold.

Reports suggest they're going to reopen Rusholme for the Vantage routes, which aren't part of the sale of Bolton (and apparently can't be sold).
 

winston270twm

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Who would handle Vantage, schools, tenders etc ?

They could have an admin or two working out of Rusholme, won't need a entire department for that little work. Rusholme may only be short term until work is to be re-tendered.

There's only a couple of tendered services and the school contracts have expired.
 

Alexbus12

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There's only a couple of tendered services and the school contracts have expired.

Regarding the tendered services, I believe First Bolton only operate the night time tenders on the 2 and 68. I can only imagine they're waiting until the tenders are up and aren't renewing them.. Think they're up April 2020
 

Kahuna47

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Regarding the tendered services, I believe First Bolton only operate the night time tenders on the 2 and 68. I can only imagine they're waiting until the tenders are up and aren't renewing them.. Think they're up April 2020

They tried to get rid of the 68 when they dumped off the 501, 507 and 561/562 but TfGM persuaded them to carry it on. The 2 does well with OK loadings on evenings.

Makes one wonder if things were afoot with Rotala when they binned those tenders back in April...
 

winston270twm

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Regarding the tendered services, I believe First Bolton only operate the night time tenders on the 2 and 68. I can only imagine they're waiting until the tenders are up and aren't renewing them.. Think they're up April 2020

The tenders are correct, can't vouch for the contract end date. So other than Vantage, there won't be much left of First Manchester if Oldham gets sold.
 

Alexbus12

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The tenders are correct, can't vouch for the contract end date. So other than Vantage, there won't be much left of First Manchester if Oldham gets sold.

Shame really, just a few years ago they had 6 operating depots, and were much better than they are now.
 

winston270twm

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Shame really, just a few years ago they had 6 operating depots, and were much better than they are now.

Exactly, profit margins aren't as big as they were six years ago, but dropping from 6 depots down to 3 then looking to sell out totally doesn't paint a very good picture under First ownership.....
 

carlberry

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Shame really, just a few years ago they had 6 operating depots, and were much better than they are now.
It's OK, Andy Burnham is now in charge in GM and everything will be perfect! (Which isn't a political comment because if the other lot were in charge it would be worse and somebody would be building a bridge across the Manchester ship canal instead).
 

caferambler

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As someone who has lived in Edinburgh and West Lothian since deregulation, I am over the moon that FirstBus are going. Their only growth has been in their fares. In terms of passengers carried, it has been a disaster area, except perhaps for the few cherry picked routes they have increased frequency on.
Now I am dreaming of Falkirk Council buying Larbert depot and running my local route, the 38, as an old style joint service with Lothian Country. But I fear we may need more legislative changes before that can happen.
 

winston270twm

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Local press speculation that NX Group are bidding to buy First Worcester, assume they will also be looking at other ops:
National Express is 'bidding to take over First Buses county operation'
By Sam Greenway
10061881.jpg

BUS: National Express

NATIONAL Express is in talks with First Group to take over the bus service, this paper has been told.

But National Express, the bus and coach operator that run services across the county, is remaining tight lipped over any possible bid.

Earlier this month First Group, which along with Diamond is the biggest bus operator in Worcestershire, announced it would be "pursuing strategic options, through a sale or other means" to offload the bus part of its business.

READ MORE: First Bus future uncertain after parent company puts it up for sale
First Bus employs around 17,500 staff, including 13,450 drivers, and in a memo to them after the announcement First's managing director, Nigel Eggerton, said it was "solely a business decision".

At the time the source who leaked the staff statement told us: "You may see more and more older buses coming back and newer buses being moved on."

A spokesman for the operator said: “We announced that we will be pursuing strategic options, through a sale or other means, to separate First Bus from FirstGroup.

"Please be assured that as this process unfolds, we will continue to operate our services as usual and demonstrating our commitment to our customers through the service we offer them."

This paper has now been told, by another source, that National Express is one of the bidders to buy the bus operation, that recently launched the Salt Road and Nimrod buses.

After being approached a spokesman from the Birmingham-based firm said: "National Express does not comment on rumour or speculation."

Although widely known as a coach operator National Express West Midlands, a subsidiary of the larger firm, operates bus services in Birmingham, Dudley and Wolverhampton.

First Group was unavailable for comment.

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/new...ng-to-take-over-first-buses-county-operation/
 

Bus Lightyear

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As someone who has lived in Edinburgh and West Lothian since deregulation, I am over the moon that FirstBus are going. Their only growth has been in their fares.

Although First offer cheaper day tickets in West Lothian as discussed numerous times on the Lothian Country forum. First also offer weekly and 4-weekly ticket which LC don't. Some of First's singles might be higher priced than LCs.
 

Bus Lightyear

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Now I am dreaming of Falkirk Council buying Larbert depot and running my local route, the 38, as an old style joint service with Lothian Country. But I fear we may need more legislative changes before that can happen.

Why would Falkirk Council want to own a bus service which only covers Polmont to Larbert within their geographical area? Which is probably only a quarter of the route. You would also need Stirlingshire council's financial input.
 

Gingerbus1991

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Why would Falkirk Council want to own a bus service which only covers Polmont to Larbert within their geographical area? Which is probably only a quarter of the route. You would also need Stirlingshire council's financial input.
Due to the nature of the Stirling/Falkirk area it would better suit a partnership-style between falk-District and Stir-council
 

overthewater

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Of all the places I would expect National Express to have an interest, Worcester isn't one of them. You have to wonder if MMC wouldn't come knocking. Surly Glasgow, Aberdeen, Bristol, Leicester, Leeds, York, Norwich would be higher up the list.

Stirling & Falkirk council can't even keep its existing subadise network going, (yes most scottish councils have managed to keep the axe away from passenger transport but its now reaching breaking point) what chance has it got to operate the commercial network? I doubt the councils would have a free reign on buying the business...
 

winston270twm

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Of all the places I would expect National Express to have an interest, Worcester isn't one of them. You have to wonder if MMC wouldn't come knocking. Surly Glasgow, Aberdeen, Bristol, Leicester, Leeds, York, Norwich would be higher up the list.

Stirling & Falkirk council can't even keep its existing subadise network going, (yes most scottish councils have managed to keep the axe away from passenger transport but its now reaching breaking point) what chance has it got to operate the commercial network? I doubt the councils would have a free reign on buying the business...

There's nothing to say they aren't also currently 'running the rule over' or even 'in negotiations' for the bigger ops you mention, but as it was the Worcs local rag that picked up on the story, they're hardly going to report it being Bristol, Glasgow etc etc.
 

winston270twm

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I'm just surprised Nat Ex are even interested in Worcester operations.

Why? It's an adjacent operation to their existing NXWM business & it could be considered an additional depot of NXWM. The only overlap is the Salt Road (B'ham-Worcs 144) with NXWM's Bristol Rd services. Should anything come of it, commuter routes in to B'ham could be looked in to in the future, where frequent trains aren't provided.

NXWM have excess single decker in the fleet and are struggling to find hopes for them, somewhere like Worcs or Leicester would be ideal.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Why: Because there is a chance the MMC will come a knocking and who needs that headache?
Aside from the MMC disappearing 20 years ago (its been the CC and since 2014, the CMA), it wouldn’t get referred. It’s one route that enters Birmingham every 30 minutes. There is plenty of competition in Worcestershire with indies plus Stagecoach and Rotala.

However, I’d pay no real attention. Looks like the “let’s get a local tie-in to an international story” angle.
 

caferambler

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Although First offer cheaper day tickets in West Lothian as discussed numerous times on the Lothian Country forum. First also offer weekly and 4-weekly ticket which LC don't. Some of First's singles might be higher priced than LCs.
Point taken. But they only trim fares where there is competition. And the area where First really fell over was quality of service. See my blog at http://regulatethebuses.blogspot.com/ for the decline in the network over the years.
 

caferambler

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Why would Falkirk Council want to own a bus service which only covers Polmont to Larbert within their geographical area? Which is probably only a quarter of the route. You would also need Stirlingshire council's financial input.
I am being deliberately retro, but I should remind younger members that many municipal routes were joint with neighbouring boroughs, so ran miles out of their home territory. I am thinking of Greater Manchester where nearly every borough had its own fleet, and some like SHMD were themselves jointly owned by 4 different Councils. Then there were all the routes joint between municipal and private sector companies. I am thinking of the Gateshead Omnibus/Newcastle Transport routes across the Tyne bridges. It's just something we hardly saw in Scotland.
 

Dai Corner

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I am being deliberately retro, but I should remind younger members that many municipal routes were joint with neighbouring boroughs, so ran miles out of their home territory. I am thinking of Greater Manchester where nearly every borough had its own fleet, and some like SHMD were themselves jointly owned by 4 different Councils. Then there were all the routes joint between municipal and private sector companies. I am thinking of the Gateshead Omnibus/Newcastle Transport routes across the Tyne bridges. It's just something we hardly saw in Scotland.

There is at least one remaining jointly operated municipal route, the 30 between Cardiff and Newport.

Slightly less off-topic for the thread, Bristol Joint Services was owned by Bristol City Council and Bristol Omnibus (now part of First, of course).
 

In Focus

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As someone who has lived in Edinburgh and West Lothian since deregulation, I am over the moon that FirstBus are going. Their only growth has been in their fares. In terms of passengers carried, it has been a disaster area, except perhaps for the few cherry picked routes they have increased frequency on.
Now I am dreaming of Falkirk Council buying Larbert depot and running my local route, the 38, as an old style joint service with Lothian Country. But I fear we may need more legislative changes before that can happen.
Until around 2015 I'd say you had a point, uch of which was due to rail compliance regulations , post 2015 your point is absolute nonsense, First West Lothian have one of the most modern fleet in the UK and had a network revision base on Customer feedback that requested "quicker routes to Livingston " hence 25 /24 /23 etc making journey times to and from districts of WL to Livingston much quicker . No depot can sustain loss making routes without assistance and WL council made it clear many routes would not be assisted, as for fares how odd that First are still making travel cheaper than the other main new WL operator but you claim fares are expensive!!
 

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