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First Group: General Discussion

In Focus

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Although First offer cheaper day tickets in West Lothian as discussed numerous times on the Lothian Country forum. First also offer weekly and 4-weekly ticket which LC don't. Some of First's singles might be higher priced than LCs.
And this is due to the government scheme where concession payments are supposedly based on single fares . Not sure how LCB make that work as pensioners do not state their destination!
 
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richw

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And this is due to the government scheme where concession payments are supposedly based on single fares . Not sure how LCB make that work as pensioners do not state their destination!

It’s a percentage of the average fare. Unsure if the average fare is calculated per route or per network
 

GCH100

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I wonder what the likelihood would be of FirstGroup selling Livingston depot to Lothian, thus ending any bus war there, and then taking Larbert, Bannockburn and Balfron depots and transferring these to First Glasgow in order to save a division and money? Also possibly Larbert might make a place to transfer some Cumbernauld area work to considering First no longer have a depot there.
 

GCH100

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I suppose it depends if the 4am from Leigh is defined in the service spec, or if it just runs for First’s operational convenience and therefore could be withdrawn.

Also the peak flows, will also have dead runs in the opposite direction, and these runs will just swap over.

Don't think they will be able to change the timetable, its my regular route and TfGM set the timetable's all FirstGroup do is provide drivers, vehicles and garaging, and for the electrics they won't even supply the vehicles. All it needs is a vehicle to break down in Leigh at Peak time on the track and you will have a bad situation as with peak hour traffic it would take about 2-3 hours to sort out, sure TfGM will put up with that, my guess is that as soon as something like this happens TfGM will strip it from them, if they can and reallocate it to an operator around Atherton or Wigan e.g. Stagecoach or Rotala, along with vehicles.

Feel sorry for those who have to start at Rusholme at 2.20am in the morning and then drive nearly back home to start in service. Its just not thought through well, even Oldham would be easier using the M60 motorway as a link. Rusholme wants returning to the leasor which is not Go Ahead but actually the Fingland family who live oversea's so I believe, and for them to sell it to a developer of student accommodation.
 

Kahuna47

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Update RE: Bolton depot uploaded today. Will make a very unique depot share situation if it works!

Screenshot_20190716-161335_First Bus Connect.jpg
 

Man of Kent

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Such a depot share would not be unique, even amongst major operators.
Brighton & Hove's Eastbourne base is the Stagecoach depot.
 

Kahuna47

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Such a depot share would not be unique, even amongst major operators.
Brighton & Hove's Eastbourne base is the Stagecoach depot.

Well, maybe a little dramatic in my words, but it certainly be a rarity, I don't know of many round these parts.
 

overthewater

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This went through yesterday:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...e-talks-end-acrimony-hedge-fund-pushes-break/

Hostilities between First Group and a New York hedge fund have intensified after an attempt at peace talks ended in acrimony.

Last week, Matthew Gregory, chief executive of First Group, and David Robbie, its interim chairman, flew to the US for an emergency summit with Coast, its biggest shareholder. But the parties clashed over plans for the embattled bus and train operator's future.

Coast is pushing for a break-up of First Group, which runs thousands of yellow school buses in America, and has tried to unseat half the boardroom in a dramatic coup. At the meeting, Coast urged First Group's bosses to speed up plans to find a replacement for Wolfhart Hauser, who resigned as chairman after Coast...
 

winston270twm

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As did this, First Group have also lost their top boy at First Student:

Boss of First Group’s US cash cow quits
Alexandra Rogers
Reporter at City A.M. covering City politics, transport and law. Get in touch: [email protected]

first-great-western-57ed9e659a6af-57ed9e65bc329.jpg

The boss of First Group’s largest business has resigned as the company continues to suffer from the fallout of an activist rebellion, City A.M. can reveal.

Dennis Maple, the president of First Student, the largest provider of student transportation in North America, is understood to have taken up a role at another company after serving at First for five years.

Read more: First Group chairman resigns after defeating Coast Capital boardroom coup

First Student’s chief operating officer, Paul Osland, will step in as interim head of the division.

Maple’s resignation comes after First’s chairman Wolfhart Hauser announced he was stepping down despite seeing off a boardroom coup by activist investor Coast Capital, which has been agitating for a radical overhaul of the company.

The US hedge fund called an extraordinary general meeting on 25 June at which it hoped to remove six board members, including Hauser and chief executive Matthew Gregory.

The results of the EGM indicated that 29.3 per cent of votes were cast in favour of removing Hauser and 24.15 per cent in favour of removing Gregory, who remains in post.

David Robbie has since been appointed interim chairman of the board.

A First spokesperson said: “Over the last five years under Dennis’ leadership the division has made visible progress, including a return to both revenue and fleet growth and improved customer satisfaction and retention. He leaves with our best wishes for the future.”

In a trading update in May, First announced plans to sell parts of its operations including its US Greyhound buses. It also said it would separate its First Bus operations in the UK from the group.

It said it was rationalising its portfolio to place “future emphasis” on First Student and First Transit, which it described as our “core North American contracting businesses, which have the greatest potential to generate sustainable value and growth over time”.

It said that the two businesses together generated 60 per cent of the group’s operating profit in 2019, which stood at £332.9m and which it attributed to growth and margin expansion at First Student and First Bus.
https://www.cityam.com/boss-of-first-groups-us-cash-cow-quits/
 

winston270twm

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That will please Coast then, as he was one of their criticisms about people in Firstgroup running things with no transport experience. He was a cost cutter, which is probably not what First Student needs now, if it is to do better.

It's unlikely that First will be able to recruit any experienced replacements with all the uncertainty surrounding the group's future. Isn't it Coast that wants First to concentrate on UK bus and sell US division including Student (no doubt to them....)
 

Volvodart

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He probably saw the writing was on the wall anyway if Firstgroup got their way with the proposals and decided to float the US operations (requiring new investors).
 

winston270twm

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He probably saw the writing was on the wall anyway if Firstgroup got their way with the proposals and decided to float the US operations (requiring new investors).

Did you not mean Coast? First Group did get their way (just...) and as it currently stands, they want to retain and focus on Student amongst other US ops.
 

Wirewiper

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First Berkshire use Reading Buses depot.

They do, the RailAir coaches are housed there. Reading Buses (or more accurately, Reading Transport Ltd.) has a full servicing and maintenance contract for the RailAir fleet.

(Off-topic) Thames Travel also outstations a few buses there for the X38/X39/X40 and 143.
 

Surreyman

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They do, the RailAir coaches are housed there. Reading Buses (or more accurately, Reading Transport Ltd.) has a full servicing and maintenance contract for the RailAir fleet.

(Off-topic) Thames Travel also outstations a few buses there for the X38/X39/X40 and 143.
And Thames Travel now share a depot with Tappins coaches in Didcot.
 

winston270twm

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Now Greyhound is being hit hard by insurers, due to age & state of fleet:

FirstGroup facing a crisis in North America


TELEMMGLPICT000003653474_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq-wioWl5aH7fAEJ8IWJw2YyYXfEVsGd8gJRvFnmyg14I.jpeg

The iconic Greyhound buses, run in the US by FirstGroup, face higher excess payouts than rivals when making insurance claims Credit: Spencer Platt/Getty

20 July 2019 • 8:30pm

Insurers have cast new doubt over the value of FirstGroup’s American bus network Greyhound, demanding it pay up to three times as much excess as rivals.

The operator must now cover the first $15m (£12m) of any claim, reflecting underwriters’ fears about the age and state of repair of the Greyhound fleet, industry sources said. The scale of the increase is understood to be unique among US bus companies.

It comes as FirstGroup attempts to find a buyer for the Greyhound operations under pressure from shareholders, who it is due to face at its annual meeting on Thursday. FirstGroup has been under attack from its largest investor, Coast Capital Management, which wants sweeping changes to the board...

It's a premium article, initial part viewable only
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/20/firstgroup-facing-crisis-north-america/
 

Volvodart

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Is that the best Coast could come up with ahead of the AGM? It could possibly be this is a reflection of the claims experience of First Student, where they had to provide nearly £100 million for potential claims in the recent accounts.
 
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Insurers have cast new doubt over the value of FirstGroup’s American bus network Greyhound, demanding it pay up to three times as much excess as rivals.

The operator must now cover the first $15m (£12m) of any claim, reflecting underwriters’ fears about the age and state of repair of the Greyhound fleet, industry sources said. The scale of the increase is understood to be unique among US bus companies.

It comes as FirstGroup attempts to find a buyer for the Greyhound operations under pressure from shareholders, who it is due to face at its annual meeting on Thursday. FirstGroup has been under attack from its largest investor, Coast Capital Management, which wants sweeping changes to the board and strategy. The activist is calling for FirstGroup to pull out of the UK rail market after racking up big losses.

Chairman Wolfhart Hauser was forced out by the row last month. The board will be put to the ballot again this week.

FirstGroup’s other US businesses are in upheaval. It operates the largest networks of US school and municipal buses, which generate more than half its profits. Four senior executives have departed the unit over the last year. A FirstGroup spokesman said: “The Greyhound’s fleet age has reduced year on year. We have seen a hardening of the wider motor claims environment in North America – but this is not specific to Greyhound, nor any of our other divisions.”
 

ivanhoe

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I was on a Greyhound about 5 years ago between Indianapolis and Chicago. Coach seemed pretty new, clean and decent legroom. Where there was over the top staffing was at its ‘stations’ at both Indianapolis and Chicago . Pleasant experience and got me from a to b. From that one journey, I had a positive view about Greyhound but when I talked to an American at the hotel bar, he was extremely surprised I used them. They’re for losers, he said. Not sure whether the American Public love their Greyhound.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I was on a Greyhound about 5 years ago between Indianapolis and Chicago. Coach seemed pretty new, clean and decent legroom. Where there was over the top staffing was at its ‘stations’ at both Indianapolis and Chicago . Pleasant experience and got me from a to b. From that one journey, I had a positive view about Greyhound but when I talked to an American at the hotel bar, he was extremely surprised I used them. They’re for losers, he said. Not sure whether the American Public love their Greyhound.

Similar to my experience from Vancouver to Whistler (albeit 2010). Decent coach, not brand new but clean. Terminal in Vancouver a bit ropey mind.

Interesting journey home for First lovers with Greyhound from Whistler to Vancouver (then Virgin flight and a car from Gatwick) before GWR train Westbury to Bath, and First Somerset & Avon bus Bath to Hanhan.
 

winston270twm

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Similar to my experience from Vancouver to Whistler (albeit 2010). Decent coach, not brand new but clean. Terminal in Vancouver a bit ropey mind.

Interesting journey home for First lovers with Greyhound from Whistler to Vancouver (then Virgin flight and a car from Gatwick) before GWR train Westbury to Bath, and First Somerset & Avon bus Bath to Hanhan.

I recently came across the photo of a Greyhound coach on the East Norfolk Bus Blog (admittedly it was a Canadian Greyhound), the caption at the bottom states it was built 2001 i.e. 18 years old, an NX coach of that age would have been retired from the network 11 years earlier:

https://eastnorfolkbus.blogspot.com/2019/06/toronto-sightings.html?m=1
 

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