FirstGroup: Operations improvement, Shares and Survival

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by overthewater, 23 May 2012.

  1. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    It had worked for many years, rising the fares above inflation has been a very popular tactic for them (would be interesting to compare a two mile/ five mile journey for single ticket prices in a typical First operation to a typical Stagecoach one), they must have thought they had a licence to print money, but things appear to have "snapped" and people just cannot afford this further increase.

    Also worth pointing out that a lot of the "leisure" market isn't there these days, and a lot of town centres are becoming unattractive (look at how the big shops have moved out of Rochdale, Rotherham etc) - you can't rely on people paying 10% more each year when the "product" is less attractive.
     
  2. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    In the past, increased income from the captive market through fare rises has outweighed reductions in passenger numbers. It has always been assumed that bus patronage is inelastic, but perhaps now that is changing. The captive market may well have shrunk too much to be relied upon. Places like Surrey experienced this some years ago, leading to mass deregistrations, with many parts of the county reliant totally on tendered services, but this phenomenon may be spreading.
     
  3. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    I have to admit Ivo does raise a very good point.

    I my local area a day ticket with First costs £5.00 however I can hop on the train for only £1.80 so which one do you think I use?.

    Also the price of short distance single tickets has risen sharply and unlike First Stagecoach South Wales offer a good variety of different tickets which are cheaper and better value for money than what First offer.
     
  4. overthewater

    overthewater Established Member

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  5. MCW

    MCW Member

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    Be interesting to see how that affects leicester and the re allocation of staff and vehicles....

    the major worry with sell offs is the transferring of staff as it doesn't always happen, We can hope that it does.

    Also I haven't heard of leicester getting the new scheme yet either, as well as newer vehicles and some of them need replacing already. It will definitely be interesting to see the outcome of this and the impact on the areas in which they still operate as a whole.
     
  6. overthewater

    overthewater Established Member

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    From what I believe there a few areas which will see proper overhauls like Southampton, but it will take time, to get everything sorted.

    I have heard Aberdeen, Leicester, and Worcester are being lined up for it...
     
  7. Ivo

    Ivo Established Member

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    A lot of places First serve need an overhaul to revitalise them. The only one around here that is pretty much safe from that is Bristol; I for one believe Bath needs quite a bit of work - note to First, I'm only an e-mail only ;) - but I doubt they agree.

    Among those that you suggest are set for an overhaul, you have to admit it would be a massive shock if they sold Aberdeen (as opposed to said overhaul). They're based there for Heaven's sake!
     
  8. MCW

    MCW Member

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    when you think about it is only like a manufacturing company. HQ in the UK and made in china....

    honest answers, do we really think they are going to pull out of scotland completely like Arriva did a month or two back?
     
  9. overthewater

    overthewater Established Member

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    No, I believe there will keep hold of Glasgow, Aberdeen and die trying to retain Scotrail... while the rest of FSE will probley get sold.
     
  10. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Plenty of spin I see.

    How's that significant? It doesn't mean anything.

    Great! More of London's cast-offs. <(

    God, no. Please leave Leicester's routes in peace. 54 goes to the General Hospital, oh no, 14 goes to the General Hospital, oh no, 54 goes ...

    Make up your frigging mind!

    Mass deregistration of evening journeys seems to have helped WorstGroup with their profit margins in Leicester. It's a shame that they now have awful reputation.

    Also, £1.80 for two fare stages? Who are you kidding? (In comparison, Arriva charge £1.40 for two fare stages.)
     
  11. Ivo

    Ivo Established Member

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    Surely if they're openly admitting an operation is struggling they would be less likely to find a buyer for said operation...
     
  12. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    Thta may be tru but any interested parties are sure to carry out their own investigations to find out why the operation is loosing money.

    It could be the case that people are as you put earlier Ivo put off by the high fares so if a company can afford it perhaps reduce the price of certain fares and perhaps have a special offer palnned for the first few weeks of any new operations.
     
  13. Lrd

    Lrd Established Member Jobs & Careers Assistant

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    Southampton has just had it's bus service relaunched (some good choices, some bad), new livery but no new ticket machines yet (still using Wayfarer's).

    I sorta hope they lose more money after this relaunch and end up pulling out of Southampton and let Bluestar/Velvet take over. :lol:
     
  14. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

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    buyers might be easier to find if the opperation can bost one or 2 comercial runs in decent nic i.e. making money, with an at least half decent rep and fleat. One of the many problems FSE had was none of the East and Midlothian area was really making anything. Bad news for first and bus users in short term but it will be interesting to see how well the retendered runs do in the hands of Prentis, Eve and ECL.

    Wonder if similar things will happen elsewhere? If so the age of the smaller bus opperater may not be over
     
  15. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    They brought the West Yorkshire operations that Stagecoach didn't want (with some help from Arriva.)
     
  16. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    You have to take a look at things in Neath to see that you are correct.
     
  17. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Or Cheshire - Arriva are happy running the profitable commercial daytime services but if they only break even on a route or it's less profitable in the evening, a smaller operator becomes involved as well.

    GHA (North Wales and Cheshire) seem to be one of the few operators that is expanding it's network with more routes and a wider geographic area. I wonder if they'll become the new Crossville.
     
  18. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Waterloo was a tiny depot when compared to the First depots in Huddersfield/ Halifax/ Leeds/ Bradford though - and with very little in the way of "assets".

    I don't think Centrebus's pockets are big enough for much more
     
  19. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    The assets is partly because Stagecoach switched the buses around so the better former Yorkshire Traction ones went to South Yorkshire and the worse ones were based at Waterloo. Yorkshire Traction had improved their assets over what they were a few years before the takeover.

    I do think that both the West Yorks Yorkshire Traction operations and the K-Line operations seemed to be the ones that Yorkshire Rider didn't want, which is probably why Badgerline acquired Yorkshire Rider and not Yorkshire Traction.
     
    Last edited: 24 May 2012
  20. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

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    Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
    and im guessing similar things have happened in your part of the world Antony?
     

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