First Group: General Discussion

[Volvodart]

We shall see who is right then!

 

[winston270twm]

We shall see who is right then!

Absolutely!

Happy to be proven wrong. However, history & sentiment say otherwise!

 

[baza585]

The progress is still too small and their new investment strategy will just result in pockets of UK bus doing better, most councils don't see improved bus infrastructure as priority when their battling with their falling budgets. Don't forget the disruption from the recent snowfall as well. It's all well and good pumping new investment in to Kernow, but it will never generate a sizeable profit due to the nature of it's operating environment.

The article also quotes Southampton as growing year on year, yet this is one area where the axe fell the most.

The market HAS grown in Southampton. First's share of it hasn't and in all probability has fallen. Surprised he mentioned it explicitly, but what he said was true; the market has grown.

That said, some of the routes GSC pounced on when First withdrew appear to be doing no better than when First ran them. More a GSC land grab than profitable expansion IMHO.

 

[overthewater]

Investment

It’s the big subject on everyone’s lips. Numbers for the groups have yet to be released but our understanding is that, generally, UK new bus orders will be down by around one-third, compared with bumper pre-PSVAR deadline orders. First too has yet to announce its investment, but promises that where appropriate, the money will continue to flow.

Whats 1/3 of nothing? Were still waiting for last years order to appear. I know its 2017-2019 order but still? If we go by the fact and say its been around 330 new buses a year for the past couple of years, does that mean were going to get about 400 + new buses this new order?

“The strategy was that we would take a hit in that first year or two, to build back up.” That was “very badly affected” by increasing congestion and Metrolink tram extensions works in the city centre, causing all buses entering the centre to be “extraordinarily unattractive” to customers. “We lost 10% of our passengers on the affected services and that congestion lasted for over two years.”

That caused First to “re-draw the plan”, while in 2015-16 the effect of online retailing on the high street trade generated a further decline. Both impacted on the 2013 recovery plan. “We know we did the right thing. We are having to be much more patient.” In the year to March 2017 it made a small loss on a £85m turnover, according to accounts filed at Companies House.

This just tells me the plan was wrong to begin with and there were clueless. Surly the Edinburgh trams would have given them some insight to trams works?

Apart from Stagecoach Highlands (Excluding Citylink) and Orkney.

To be fair outside of Inverness its was always poor man area, even in the scottish bus group days.

I'd be more concerned with the loss making ops that are still haemorrhaging money, this is before worrying about earning double digit margins again. You plug all the holes first, then look to build on what you've already got second.

Im sure I asked this before years ago. I think it was along the lines how are there going to sort trouble parts if there just focus on the big areas? 7 years later there still trying to plug the holes, that not right.

Stagecoach always pulled the plug faster, like in Lancashire or Darlington or with the Scottish highlands


Tough decisions:

In Berkshire “we had a number of loss-making services, exacerbated by congestion in Slough. It’s an extraordinarily difficult place to run buses whether they are commercial or supported. We have twice put additional resource into the market, but it was declining because congestion meant it could not be an attractive product.”
Conversations to be had with local authorities about opportunities surrounding air quality and fleet upgrades

So First made the difficult decision to reduce its local network. “We are committed to Slough; we would have left if we weren’t, but we can’t afford to lose that amount of money on the town services.”

What about Northampton? There were committed they yet there still left. When there shut Dalkeith.....

2nd April 2012 statement bold section is about Muss depot.

"Unfortunately, up to 200 positions are at risk, from our Dalkeith depot, which we propose to close, and from our Musselburgh depot which we propose to significantly reduce in size. Our decisions do not, in any way, reflect the commitment and quality of our staff in the area. I cannot speak highly enough of their professionalism and dedication. We will be doing everything that we can to assist affected staff.

Its like TBTC said Giles has to be cheerleader for the company, yet the axe has never been as deadly as Stagecoach. I just get the feeling there still trying to be like Hyacinth Bucket.

I still think it's strange they never mention Midland bluebird? Surly there would want to be wave the flags here? The company was a basket case... local team pushed hard get out of all the controls, taken an axe, cut off ALL the dead wood and plugged every single hole, There stuck to there guns, introduced new networks and got new buses: The Livingston depot has a very young fleet, Falkirk got new stock for the 3/4 and 38, and Stirling got new stock for the Uni route while also getting stock in from Glasgow which were only a few years old.

None of those councils are investing in bus things or partnership, yet a very recent press release highlighted passenger growth over a number of routes, which has only happened because of all the hard work by the people in Larbert house.

The feeling I get is, there dont want to admit there only one way certain companies have/will manage to turn themselves around: That's by doing psycho shower scene, a lot of investment in new stock and letting the local management team get on with, which goes against what there just been pushing.

 

[winston270twm]

The market HAS grown in Southampton. First's share of it hasn't and in all probability has fallen. Surprised he mentioned it explicitly, but what he said was true; the market has grown.

That said, some of the routes GSC pounced on when First withdrew appear to be doing no better than when First ran them. More a GSC land grab than profitable expansion IMHO.

I guess it's down to how First internally measure growth in Southampton, as overall passenger numbers & turnover will have fallen.

GSC may well benefit longer term i.e. covering a larger proportion of the Southampton network

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, and also recommending 'Sell' even at current low share price. Downtrend since Jun 2017 continues....

Hi Winston

Having re-read it, I don't think it does. It references the article and then states "Sell, it says."

 

[winston270twm]

Hi Winston

Having re-read it, I don't think it does. It references the article and then states "Sell, it says."

Hi TGW,

It references The Sunday Times article, however, this tip is from 'The Mail on Sunday Midas' which it says 'Sell'

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It is an interesting statement from Giles and there is definitely a view that he would have to be positive (i.e. the cheerleading aspect).

Without wishing to go over all the old ground, there was definitely a lot to do when he started. That there have been industry wide pressures and that First have been in the least good shape to encounter these is not new information. There is a two speed element to the industry (and the country) as a whole - the north/south divide. The greater cause for concern are those areas in the south that aren't doing as well as you would anticipate - namely Berkshire, Essex, Southampton and also Somerset (though the latter has always been very thin territory). As Winston has pointed out, and I agree with him, Slough and Southampton generate the same fear of cutting back so that they lose a level of critical mass and that is the greatest issue.

Stagecoach have quietly been doing much the same sort of pruning as First - there have been some pretty substantial cuts in Tyne and Wear, Devon, and Kent. Whilst doing this, they have been experiencing declining margins (though still at a level that ToT and Giles would sell their first born for). Whether First have been as tough as Stagecoach... Well, they've pulled out Hereford, Borders and Bracknell, as well as closing two Manchester depots and Rotherham. It's a tough choice - pull out and have a massive write off, try and effect some sort of fire sale? None of it is especially appetising.

OTW's reference to Stagecoach in Lancashire.... well that was an exit caused by the problems from the Kinski era, along with exiting Stratford and Eastbourne. Arguably, if Souter had his time again, he may not have wished to dispose of those operations and indeed, they subsequently returned to both of the latter two. Darlington is a tad misleading. Darlington was a problem child, unable to expand and never able to sustain itself with just 30 vehicles. In that respect, Northampton became rather similar prior to 2012, caused by abject mismanagement.

I'd also argue that there has been 1/3 of nothing. Clearly, the new vehicle figures are much reduced but there's no commitment to announce the orders. Arriva and Go Ahead don't - Stagecoach and First traditionally have. They are buying fewer (supported by an overall fleet reduction) and there has been a time lag on FY2017/8 but there are new vehicles in Bristol and in some other spots. It is also true that some have been staggered in order to improve the full year figures (or so it would appear).

Also, the statement that OTW highlights on the Musselburgh depot and commitment is misleading. What is says is that they are reducing that depot's operations but that it doesn't reflect on the commitment of the staff - it essentially absolves the staff of blame. First management are carrying the can and rightly so; it was good operating territory, blighted by some terrible decisions by First in the past. You can say the same about Plymouth as well (and indeed Northampton).

The greatest areas of concern are Manchester and South Yorkshire - the former because of the threat of franchising, the local economy in the regional centres outside of central Manchester, impact of the Metrolink, and the paucity of investment over recent years (aside from 2012 and a bit in 2014). South Yorkshire also seems to be a challenge, again perhaps because of wider economic issues in places like Rotherham and Donny and the apparent lack of a peace dividend from the various bus partnerships.

The views on the shares are mixed. As I said, HL had a different take http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/f/firstgroup-plc-ordinary-5p/broker-forecasts My personal view is that the management can't keep talking about headwinds or blaming one offs. The sale of something like Greyhound might be the thing they have to do in order to generate some cash, and to reduce the debt pile when re-financing of some of the other bonds comes around. The full year results are going to be interesting though perhaps Giles' comments might be an indication of some slightly better news or (as has been pointed out) why would Giles make himself a hostage to fortune. We will wait to see what happens.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Hi TGW,

It references The Sunday Times article, however, this tip is from 'The Mail on Sunday Midas' which it says 'Sell'

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing where it says that? Am I missing something? I see Midas referring to the Tesco Booker deal but the First Group one looks solely based on the Sunday Times article.

Genuinely, am I having a senior moment?

 

[overthewater]

Stagecoach have quietly been doing much the same sort of pruning as First - there have been some pretty substantial cuts in Tyne and Wear, Devon, and Kent. Whilst doing this, they have been experiencing declining margins (though still at a level that ToT and Giles would sell their first born for). Whether First have been as tough as Stagecoach... Well, they've pulled out Hereford, Borders and Bracknell, as well as closing two Manchester depots and Rotherham. It's a tough choice - pull out and have a massive write off, try and effect some sort of fire sale? None of it is especially appetising.

What I mean is, in that respect, Stagecoach always acts with a click of the fingers unlike first. I accept there closed stuff etc but the time scale has been dragged out over a much longer period. To me, I dare say many others it just feels like everything is being dragged out when it comes to First. Its like Moir is still hanging over them not to lose grace and keep hold of everything... Look at Kings Lynn within three months stagecoach is pretty much gone, expect for that sub depot.

At least stagecoach say " there a problem" Can we fix it? No out it goes, end of story none of this going around on a merry go round. Get on with it.

OTW's reference to Stagecoach in Lancashire.... well that was an exit caused by the problems from the Kinski era, along with exiting Stratford and Eastbourne. Arguably, if Souter had his time again, he may not have wished to dispose of those operations and indeed, they subsequently returned to both of the latter two. Darlington is a tad misleading. Darlington was a problem child, unable to expand and never able to sustain itself with just 30 vehicles. In that respect, Northampton became rather similar prior to 2012, caused by abject mismanagement.

I doubt Stagecoach would have been allowed to buy Eastbourne buses if there still control some of the routes, didn't there regin some of the routes there give up on?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What I mean is, in that respect, Stagecoach always acts with a click of the fingers unlike first. I accept there closed stuff etc but the time scale has been dragged out over a much longer period. To me, I dare say many others it just feels like everything is being dragged out when it comes to First. Its like Moir is still hanging over them not to lose grace and keep hold of everything... Look at Kings Lynn within three months stagecoach is pretty much gone, expect for that sub depot.

At least stagecoach say " there a problem" Can we fix it? No out it goes, end of story none of this going around on a merry go round. Get on with it.

I doubt Stagecoach would have been allowed to buy Eastbourne buses if there still control some of the routes, didn't there regin some of the routes there give up on?

You could easily say that what Stagecoach are doing in Kings Lynn or Fort William is what First did in Bracknell. In fact, you could argue why Stagecoach didn't close Fort William when they lost their tenders to Shiel? Stagecoach in Somerset had a very protracted death too.

Also, Stagecoach isn't pretty much gone in Norfolk - they're closing Kings Lynn but are still running what they can from other sites but if it's not achievable, then they're out.

As for thinking that Stagecoach in Eastbourne was some master plan - they exited in 2003 and didn't buy Eastbourne Buses til Dec 2008.

 

[Anthony ross]

I tend to think that stagecoach has a better management team within its companies than what first do

 

[Dentonian]

I tend to think that stagecoach has a better management team within its companies than what first do

Depends which companies. Stagecoach Manchester certainly used to have a very competent management team who knew just how to get the best out of their staff and knew exactly where their Revenue came from. The emphasis on *used to* .

 

[Observer]

I still think it's strange they never mention Midland bluebird? Surly there would want to be wave the flags here? The company was a basket case... local team pushed hard get out of all the controls, taken an axe, cut off ALL the dead wood and plugged every single hole, There stuck to there guns, introduced new networks and got new buses: The Livingston depot has a very young fleet, Falkirk got new stock for the 3/4 and 38, and Stirling got new stock for the Uni route while also getting stock in from Glasgow which were only a few years old.

None of those councils are investing in bus things or partnership, yet a very recent press release highlighted passenger growth over a number of routes, which has only happened because of all the hard work by the people in Larbert house.

And how were they awarded? Local teams scrapped and everything being operated in Scotland with one managing director.

But yes they did improve those depots, and the vehicles inside them, but a lot of their success was down to selling or closing other depots.

At least they have been allowed to keep the blue livery which is now the choice of repaint going forward.

 

[overthewater]

Alas that been on the cards for years, but many of the staff or team in Larbert are still they. Their were all given job covering all of scotland so you could say there have been rewarded with promotion? The East and mid lothian depots along with Border was gushing out money so there had to cut off the dead wood to protect the core business in West Lothian and Forth valley.

Blue livery is in that 5 year business plan I believe.

 

[overthewater]

First Aberdeen are going on strike

https://www.firstgroup.com/aberdeen...-changes/industrial-action-revised-timetables

Revised Services Due to Industrial Action
Following the results from the Unite the Union's ballot on Industrial Action, all of our services will be affected on the following dates:

16th March
19th March
21st March
23rd March
25th March - 31st March
This is our intended service levels during days of Industrial action, should more resource become available we will endeavour to improve on these timetables, your patience on these days is appreciated by First Aberdeen.

For up to date details on our services, please follow us on Twitter (@FirstAberdeen) or Facebook (Search: First Aberdeen)

We appreciate that the industrial action can be disruptive to your journey, and if you are unable to use our service on the revised timetable we will be offering the choice of either additional days of free travel or money back. Please contact our customer service team on 01224 650000 to arrange this

The full timetables details can be found below by clicking on the route your require. : Click on link...

Stagecoach have brought in extra buses
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/26950050288/in/feed
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/39009636960/in/photostream/

 

[winston270twm]

First Aberdeen are going on strike

https://www.firstgroup.com/aberdeen...-changes/industrial-action-revised-timetables

Stagecoach have brought in extra buses
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/26950050288/in/feed
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/39009636960/in/photostream/

That's the last thing First need, yet more days of lost revenue + inconveniencing the travelling public.

 

[Volvodart]

It is believed First want to bring their drivers wages into line with Stagecoach Aberdeen drivers. If franchising is to be brought in, First would be at a competitive disadvantage.

 

[winston270twm]

It is believed First want to bring their drivers wages into line with Stagecoach Aberdeen drivers. If franchising is to be brought in, First would be at a competitive disadvantage.

I'm assuming with the result of the strike action, that First currently pay more than Stagecoach Aberdeen then?

Even if it does put First at a competitive disadvantage, it's highly unlikely staff will be happy taking any cut in pay or benefits.

 

[DragonEast]

At the risk of being tiresome (again) I find Giles Alice-in-Wonderland comments (at least as interpreted by the reporter) hard to make sense of.

Taking the comments about Slough and the Berkshire unit at face value, exactly the same seems to me to apply to the (extensive) Chelmsford urban network, often with up to three near-empty, (and unreliable) full size buses serving the same locality within a few streets of each other; but the difference may be a depot crying out for housing redevelopment and a Council that would welcome it with open arms, to fund it. If so far he talks of retrenching then that word must have a different meaning. First have done less than any of the neighbouring operators even in the normal network tweaking that any business does.

I found it interesting that now Stagecoach are withdrawing from Kings Lynn, most of the urban routes are taken on by a Community minibus operator, not the usual competitors who have enthusiastically taken on the out of town routes. Essex DaRT here we come perhaps? Though what the Cambridgeshire or Luton busways have to do with First, I don't know. We can't just magic up a redundant rail trackbed at will and when we can the arguments over VFM still rankle on.

I tend to think First don't understand the south east market, which rarely provides a captive audience and may be changes as quick as anywhere, so that operators need to be adept and adapt. And try to be ahead of the game. In Essex they still look like jack-of-all-trades. Is that smart? I still don't get how First costs are so high that with the same sort of staffing and income as Stagecoach East (without Norfolk, and allowing for the bus manna of Cambridge) Stagecoach can pull a £10m profit and Essex a loss!! Their drivers earn more but are they living the life of Riley? What I've seen of their fleet maintenance it isn't gold-plated. And may be that's why the rest can be successful where First aren't. Why are First staying in Berkshire (or Essex, for that matter)? That's my question. I'd like to hear the answer, but won't be holding my breath. Retrenchment (and bus technology, for that matter) is a means, not an ends. Which summed up the article; tactics, but was there a strategy? Nothing dispelled my worry of a leadership vacuum that means the question "Where are we going" remains unaddressed and instead Head Office run day to day OpCo operations from afar.

Still plenty, if not most, businesses with issues (and there have been no shortage of them) in the south-east have saved themselves with property development.

 

[robertclark125]

What at least one First subsidiary needs is a Chris Green type person. Mr Green looked after the Scottish region of BR, rebranded it Scotrail, and helped give the railway a new lease of life. Then, he was sent to the London and South East Sector, helped rebrand it "Network Southeast", with its famous red lampposts, and new publicity and initiatives. If First could get one Chris Green type character, or maybe they have one in the group already, place them in charge of a subsidiary, let's say, for instance Eastern Counties, and show them the stuff Network Southeast done, and say, you try and do that, and you have a free hand, and we'll give you five years, then they could make successes.

 

[Hophead]

What at least one First subsidiary needs is a Chris Green type person. Mr Green looked after the Scottish region of BR, rebranded it Scotrail, and helped give the railway a new lease of life. Then, he was sent to the London and South East Sector, helped rebrand it "Network Southeast", with its famous red lampposts, and new publicity and initiatives. If First could get one Chris Green type character, or maybe they have one in the group already, place them in charge of a subsidiary, let's say, for instance Eastern Counties, and show them the stuff Network Southeast done, and say, you try and do that, and you have a free hand, and we'll give you five years, then they could make successes.

Isn't that kind of what's happened in Somerset, as well as in Bristol (without the rebrand)? And the rail operations make little or no mention of their First Group ownership.

 

[tbtc]

What at least one First subsidiary needs is a Chris Green type person. Mr Green looked after the Scottish region of BR, rebranded it Scotrail, and helped give the railway a new lease of life. Then, he was sent to the London and South East Sector, helped rebrand it "Network Southeast", with its famous red lampposts, and new publicity and initiatives. If First could get one Chris Green type character, or maybe they have one in the group already, place them in charge of a subsidiary, let's say, for instance Eastern Counties, and show them the stuff Network Southeast done, and say, you try and do that, and you have a free hand, and we'll give you five years, then they could make successes.

Isn't that kind of what's happened in Somerset, as well as in Bristol (without the rebrand)? And the rail operations make little or no mention of their First Group ownership.

Agreed - and also the "blue" Midland Bluebird operation.

First are at least giving the impression of being a lot less centralised - like the "green" Streetdecks in Leeds.

I think that one difference would be keeping local management in place for a little longer - at the moment some operations seem to exist only as a stepping stone to bigger things - if the managers are only going to be there for a couple of years then they treat it like junior Cabinet Ministers treat their departments - eager to be seen to reinvent the wheel, tackle the mistakes made by the last lot, come up with your own personal stamp on the network map, then hope to move to one of the lucrative bits of the empire (Leeds, Bristol etc). If you knew that you'd be stuck in (say) Stoke/ Leicester/ Halifax for a decade then you'd take your time, you'd look at longer term improvements, you'd not chase short term profits so much, you'd learn.

(but I realise that I'm falling into the trap of "Proper Railway Man" that is the solution for many things on this Forum - just as football fans want a "Proper Football Man" in charge of their club... don't mean to fall into the nostalgia trap!)

 

[robertclark125]

On the Stagecoach East Scotland thread, someone was mentioning about how poor Kirkcaldy town centre is. I work in Kirkcaldy, in the shop at the hospital, and occasionally the railway station, and can share those thoughts, as does my mum. This next suggestion doesn't just affect Firstgroup, but others.

How can you make town centres attractive, to encourage people to come into them? Sure, bus companies can go on an improve services, lower fares, etc, but that's just one part of the puzzle. Town centre management, or local authorities, need to make the town centres attractive to businesses to come into, as well as customers. Those shops also need to be offering what the customer wants, and making their shops attractive, and investing the money.

Ultimately, it's all down to the customer; they choose whether to go to a town centre or not. First, like other companies, is trying its best in some places, but that's only one part of the puzzle, and the buses alone cannot make town centres more attractive than internet shopping. That's the challenge facing bus companies, town centres etc.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Dublin is a perfect example of a missed opportunity.

They invested in Aircoach in 2003 with a view to being well placed for the opening of the urban bus and state dominated market to private operators, this was put back many times, and has only just happened but in the last few years they launched two highly successful commercial routes which meant in 2015 they made over €3m profit and in 2016 that grew to over €8m (followed by over €6m this year)

The last couple of years the market has started to be opened and there were tenders out and competitions to be won and First should have been by far the best placed of any private company, as the only major UK group present in Ireland and already having infrastructure in place. They invested in Aircoach 15 years ago waiting for this chance.

However the problem is that First walked away from the contests because of the requirement to build their own depot and the upfront costs that would involve that they could not bear and Go-Ahead, with no kind of infrastructure whatsoever in the country, had the finances to play the long game and invest in something that they'd have to wait for years to see the benefit of.

First tendered for 6 routes in Ireland won by Go-Ahead today.

Again the financial position of the overall group has hindered them here as they were the only major group who had a presence in Ireland which should have given them a distinct advantage over others.

Wouldn't be surprised if Go-Ahead were eyeing Aircoach. It would give them a depot on the North of the city, as well as one in Ireland's second city, Cork.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

So the LEZ is coming into effect come the 31st of December in Glasgow according to STV News.

Have Glasgow even started to look at getting buses either retro fitted or buses drafted in from elsewhere?

 

[overthewater]

No, but there now have four years to put in a new fleet, that enough time to bring in 100 new buses a year and retrofit the rest.?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...all-but-cleanest-vehicles-from-2022-1-4706788

Only vehicles with the cleanest engines will be permitted in Glasgow city centre from 2022, the city council announced today. The clampdown will be part of Scotland's first pollution-busting low emission zone (LEZ), which will start operating on 31 December. Initially, one in five bus journeys in the zone will have to be on vehicles with the cleanest diesel engines - Euro VI. This compares to around one in ten at present, with a phased approach until all buses meet the standard by December 2022.

However, no phasing for cars and other vehicles towards the 2022 deadline has been announced. Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee are also due to launch LEZs by 2020. Diesel cars will be required to have Euro 6 engines, which were introduced four years ago. Petrol cars will require Euro 4 engines, introduced in 2005.

Some buses - such as main operator First Glasgow's - have their engine rating shown on a rear corner of the vehicle, which range from "3" to "6", with six the least polluting. Diesel fumes are harmful to health, with Hope Street, one of the city's main bus corridors past Central Station, among Scotland's most polluted. Fears raised that Scotland's first low emission zone will have little impact Anna Richardson, city convener for sustainability and carbon reduction, said the zone was "capable of making significant reductions in levels of air pollution". She said: "While we continue to work with the bus industry to improve services – services which are vital to the lives of Glaswegians - it’s recognised that the introduction of a LEZ needs to be proportionate and managed in such a way that ambition and practicality can be balanced.

“That is why the initial phase of the LEZ will address local buses through Traffic Regulation Conditions (TRCs) set by the Traffic Commissioner. "Buses will be expected to meet the Euro VI emission standard by December 2022. "All other vehicles will also have to be compliant by that date, so we will be engaging widely with residents and businesses to ensure that everyone is aware of and prepared for the LEZ. “Glasgow is forging a national path towards cleaner air – air that we will all benefit from. "Poor air quality is a significant public health concern and a major social justice issue for Glasgow. “Cleaner buses going through the city centre LEZ will also be travelling elsewhere and throughout our city’s neighbourhoods and this is a really positive step forward in how we, as a city and as a country, go about creating healthy, liveable streets.” However, environmental campaigners accused the council of not acting fast enough. Friends of the Earth Scotland air pollution campaigner Emilia Hanna, said: “The people of Glasgow were promised a low emission zone, but these proposals will create a ‘No Ambition Zone’ that does almost nothing to speed up air quality improvements so desperately needed in the city. “The proposals condemn Glasgow to illegal air for years to come and must be urgently improved. "Councillors must recommend these proposals be significantly improved when they discuss them next week or they will have failed the people of Glasgow, who suffer daily from the health impacts of air pollution. "What Glasgow does also sets the benchmark for the LEZs to come in Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh in 2020, so it is critical to set the bar high."

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...all-but-cleanest-vehicles-from-2022-1-4706788

 

[90sWereBetter]

So the LEZ is coming into effect come the 31st of December in Glasgow according to STV News.

Have Glasgow even started to look at getting buses either retro fitted or buses drafted in from elsewhere?

They're apparently getting two 25+ batches of E400s this year, which should be enough to wipe out all the Presidents bar 32300-305 which are a couple of years newer than the rest. It's a start, certainly.

 

[Robertj21a]

How many buses are there in the two First Glasgow fleets ?. I guess not too many are already Euro 6 (?) and it's probably only cost-effective to upgrade Euro 5 buses.
I guess there may be a fudge around the deadline by moving any non-compliant buses on to a few routes not serving the centre.

 

[Volvodart]

The funding is to give buses up to 13 years of age the emissions of Euro 6 buses. Not all buses will need done as they do not enter the city centre low emissions zone. 76 First Glasgow buses are currently Euro 6.