Cesarcollie
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I agree!! If every single journey or vehicle on a route had to make a profit, there would be timetables with very big holes in them!!
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First Group: General Discussion
- Thread starter overthewater
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I agree!! If every single journey or vehicle on a route had to make a profit, there would be timetables with very big holes in them!!
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Cesarcollie
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Possibly but quite difficult to do in practice as aside from one route, the services are half hourly or hourly. To reduce those means dropping down to hourly or every 2 hours..... Urban services will die completely at those frequencies. The existing Hedingham services, with the exception of one, are all off-peak one bus operations which fit between schools.
Stan Drews
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I think most operators will look more at individual journey level where these are at the start or end of the bus working, as opposed to those that may be in the middle. So, an early morning journey is more likely to be withdrawn if the revenue generated is low, whilst a journey with similar (or even lower) revenue during the day e.g. an against the flow peak run, may well continue due to higher revenues taken before/after. In other words, it is easy to make cost savings if certain journeys are withdrawn, but others would produce minimal, if any savings.
The "get out" clause is "avoidable costs" eg. A mid evening journey may not take enough revenue to cover its costs, but if the journey was withdrawn, the bus would have to either run back to depot and run out again (thus still incurring fuel and labour costs) or park up in a bus station (incurring parking/facility charges......and in practice, labour costs). It is also more difficult to accrue revenue to individual journeys with so much off bus ticketing and ENCTS. When the "no cross subsidies between journeys" edict came down from Ridley in 1986, the vast majority of revenue was on bus and so easily applied to individual journeys.
Cesarcollie
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No get out clause needed!! If a company wishes to provide some journeys which make a loss (or even a whole service for that matter) there's nothing to stop them doing so. The only issue would be if it was a 'big' company clearly doing so to try and drive a 'small' company off a route (I use these terms generically as shorthand for a company with lots of resources versus one with few). That could be deemed anti-competitive.
This must have changed in the 2000 Act. The 1985 Act prevented any cross subsidy between journeys and Thatcher's henchmen made it perfectly clear to PTCs (certainly, GMPTE) that the must not do it.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Sorry but I am going to have to disagree with you on that. The 1985 Act does not explicitly say anything about cross subsidy but has reference to the Competition Act.
Again, I will have to take issue with you on this. Many bus operators had extensive amounts of off bus revenue; in fact, the strength of WMPTE's Travelcard was one of the main reasons why the level of competition in WM was lower than some other notable areas. In fact, it was perhaps only in certain of the PTE areas (like South Yorkshire and GM who had artificially held down fares so much that a Travelcard had lessor value) where this phenomenon occured.
Also, the move to more sophisticated ticket machines means that it has never been easier to aggregate a raft of travelling data. I can buy an electronic ticket and that 3D code will be picked up across a range of journeys; perhaps I should have checked the terms and conditions to see what they retain
South Yorkshire is famous for its 5p pre-deregulation fare but GMT didn't have a low fares policy, although fares were frozen for quite a while in the early 80s. GMT were already charging 90p for a 10 mile bus trip into Manchester (although Clippercards were available giving 10 trips for £3.70 off-peak) so fares didn't skyrocket immediately on 26 October 1986 like in South Yorkshire. The cheapest Saver 7 bus/train ticket cost something like £6 a week so was only useful for longer distance bus commuters.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Not as low as SY but hell, who was. GM was still lower than many places in the provinces.
However, still holds - there were plenty of places across the UK with significant off bus sales. Also, there has never been more management information thanks to new technology.
No , its £3.30 on the SPY supported journeys and regular first fares of £1.60 and £2.30 on the normal journeys
Wow! Strathclyde PTE must be Scotland's answer to Warrington Council. Who needs Grayling and Clarkson.............
Sorry but I am going to have to disagree with you on that. The 1985 Act does not explicitly say anything about cross subsidy but has reference to the Competition Act.
Again, I will have to take issue with you on this. Many bus operators had extensive amounts of off bus revenue; in fact, the strength of WMPTE's Travelcard was one of the main reasons why the level of competition in WM was lower than some other notable areas. In fact, it was perhaps only in certain of the PTE areas (like South Yorkshire and GM who had artificially held down fares so much that a Travelcard had lessor value) where this phenomenon occured.
Also, the move to more sophisticated ticket machines means that it has never been easier to aggregate a raft of travelling data. I can buy an electronic ticket and that 3D code will be picked up across a range of journeys; perhaps I should have checked the terms and conditions to see what they retain
We may have to agree to disagree, unless its an example of people in power being inherantly incapable of understand questions or set to automatically give stock answers. When I was involved in the Voluntary sector to do with buses, briefly in the mid 1990s I raised this point three times at different seminars/public meetings. On each the speakers failed to contradict my belief that every journey was a cost centre. Indeed, two agreed with me that it was unfair for it to be the case - those two being a well known transport (mainly railway) journalist and a former very senior industry figure at the time; initials B C. The only one who disagreed was a spokesman for the Labour-run (!) Government Office of the North West who said that even an individual service (never mind an entire company) having to run at an Operating profit, would be "tantermount to re-nationalisation".
You are also partly wrong on fares as radamfi has explained. Whilst fares in GM may have been lower than in many shire counties and possibly even municipalities, I recall that, certainly at the time of the 1982 fares freeze, GMPTE fares were the *highest* of all six English PTEs. Additionally, per capita, GMPTE bus services had the lowest subsidy of all the PTEs except possibly West Midlands. Indeed, one of the most damning enditments of deregulation was that apart from a total absence of route and timetable innovation, no competitor of GM Buses reduced fares from these high levels, by more than the odd few percent.
Drifting slightly off topic, it was always a "mystery" that WMT/TWM were allowed to be privatised as one single company, given that they retained an 80% of the local market in 1993. Why were the OFT and, of course, MacGregor, happy with that?
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I genuinely have no idea what you mean by that....
I can't comment on either the speakers or their ability to convince you against your beliefs. However, I have good friends who have worked for (among others), Stagecoach, First Group, Arriva, Transdev and Status Group and I can definitely tell you that bus companies are remarkably pragmatic. They will run certain journeys that are not profitable in their own right because of various reasons. It may be registering services to avoid a competitor getting a tender (and so maintain market share), perhaps by only allocating the marginal costs against specific journeys. Also, they view things "in the round" and so whilst a specific journey may not make a turn, it contributes to the overall health of the service.
Each journey may well be assessed in isolation (and so as a cost centre) but that doesn't mean that if it doesn't wash it's face, it has to be pulled.
In fact, this is a process that is even more skilfully performed given the improvement in management information that modern ticketing systems perform. Instead of someone flashing a pass that was probably not recorded in any way, journeys can now logged more efficiently.
Indeed, I chose my words carefully. There is a whole world outside the PTE areas and I was referencing that in the "provinces". That bus fares increased markedly from 1982.... yes, from a low base and only 4 years prior to deregulation. That GM didn't push off bus ticketing to the same extent as West Mids or T&W.... well, that was their look out.
As for your statements that "GMPTE bus services had the lowest subsidy" and "no competitor of GM Buses reduced fares" perhaps indicates that GM's fares weren't so astronomical even after the period 1982-6? More likely, GM cut their cloth at deregulation and that operators weren't prepared to compete purely on price - after all, if you match the opposition who hasn't got a strong travelcard offering (like WMT had) and then run along a busy corridor, you can probably pick up enough to make a living and indeed, that was what happened.
Not really a mystery. It was well known that the local politicians in the West Midlands were very astute and pragmatic in their dealings to keep WMT in one piece; a level of pragmaticism and diplomacy that was reportedly missing from the good politicos of Greater Manchester who believed they knew better than the Secretary of State!
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My first sentence simply explains my following paragraph.
As for the rest, I think you have actually confirmed my suspicions with your last statement. My tongue was in cheek with the "mystery" comment, but I took slightly the other side of the equation. It is clear that certain comments made were lies or deliberate misinformation, but your final comment is very telling. After all, how could politicians representing wards full of people using the buses they were (previously) in control of, know "better" than some rich ex-Merchant Banker 200 miles away who probably never travelled on a bus in his life but was quite happy to treat passengers and PTC staff in GM as lepers and pawns (respectively) whilst the buses past his Whitehall Office hadn't even been deregulated.
As for "Travelcards", they did exist at and before deregulation as Saver Sevens (weekly) and Day Rovers. My comments about a damning indictment of deregulation was because competitors brought NOTHING new. Fares were virtually identical (but NO Travelcards), and their buses simply ran 3 minutes in front of the "orange bus".
GMPTE's Saver Sevens were primarily intended for people using both bus and train regularly so most bus only passengers were better off using ClipperCards. Whilst nominal cash fares didn't start increasing dramatically until after the initial crazy competitive period after deregulation, the withdrawal of ClipperCards was a significant hidden rise. Initially, ClipperCards actually gained flexibility as it became legal to cancel multiple CliipperCards for one trip, which wasn't allowed before deregulation. But it wasn't long before the only ClipperCard remaining in use was the Concessionary CliipperCard, meaning that fares were effectively increased by 11.1% in peak hours (the Standard (peak) ClipperCard gave 10 trips for the price of 9) and by 25% off-peak (the Off-peak Cliippercard gave 10 trips for the price of 8).
The biggest effective rise was for middle and longer distance off-peak fares as the Any Distance Off-Peak ClipperCard was no longer available, so instead of paying 37p a trip, you would be paying the full cash fare which could have meant your fare doubled or even tripled overnight.
GM Buses was very slow in introducing a Day Saver. Before deregulation, GMPTE only offered a Sunday Rover for £1 and other than that there was no day ticket other than the expensive Wayfarer.
The biggest effective rise was for middle and longer distance off-peak fares as the Any Distance Off-Peak ClipperCard was no longer available, so instead of paying 37p a trip, you would be paying the full cash fare which could have meant your fare doubled or even tripled overnight.
GM Buses was very slow in introducing a Day Saver. Before deregulation, GMPTE only offered a Sunday Rover for £1 and other than that there was no day ticket other than the expensive Wayfarer.
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overthewater
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I take it we still dont know what buses are on order for First group for the 2017- 2019 period?
* Cornwall: 30 new E400MMC in 2017: 20 - E200s and how many deckers for 2018?
* Glasgow: 75 odd E400MMC with option of another 25 odd new singles?
What about the rest? has anyone heard anything?
* Cornwall: 30 new E400MMC in 2017: 20 - E200s and how many deckers for 2018?
* Glasgow: 75 odd E400MMC with option of another 25 odd new singles?
What about the rest? has anyone heard anything?
think Cornwalls new double decks 2018 are about 21 in total
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Which 31? Which town?
Sorry , First Glasgow 31 Glasgow to East Kilbride service
Just a suggestion, is it worth having a separate thread for First Glasgow? it is a sizeable operation in first group.
There are already separate threads for Kernow & South West/Wales & and leave this thread to be about the group as a whole.
There are already separate threads for Kernow & South West/Wales & and leave this thread to be about the group as a whole.
Good idea , especially Bus and Coach forum is no more
Didnt realise Overtown had these .
overthewater
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- 8,162
It was one of 4 that came from Slough earlier this year, but I am not really sure where they ended up.
Possible a new thread could be started for this meaasage?
From Notices and Proceedings for the Scottish Traffic Area dated May 14 2018 details of the proposed LEZ order for Glasgow City Centre:
Section 4 – Traffic Regulation Conditions
Section 4.1 – Requests
Request to determine a Traffic Regulation Condition in Glasgow’s Low Emission Zone.
The Traffic Commissioner has received from the Executive Director, Neighbourhoods and Sustainability, Land and Environmental Services, Glasgow City Council, Exchange House, 231 George Street, Glasgow, G1 1RX a request under Section 7 of the Transport Act 1985 to determine a Traffic Regulation Condition for Glasgow’s Low Emission Zone to improve air quality and deliver a better environment for all.
The proposed Traffic Regulation Condition is as follows:
Glasgow City Centre Low Emission Zone
Traffic Regulation Condition
Traffic Regulation Condition Boundary
The roads affected by the proposed Traffic Regulation Condition are highlighted on Fig 1: Glasgow City Centre Low Emission Zone – Traffic Regulation Condition, and are bounded by and including:-
Clyde Street
Broomielaw,
Newton Street,
M8 (Newton Street) w/b Off Ramp / connector link / M8 (Phoenix Road) w/b On Ramp,
Phoenix Road
Dobbie’s Loan
Kyle Street
Baird Street
M8 w/b / M8 (Stirling Road) w/b On Ramp
Glebe Street
Castle Street
High Street
Saltmarket
Roads Affected
The list of roads affected by the proposed Traffic Regulation Condition is as follows:-
Aird’s Lane, Argyle Street (east of Newton Street).
Balaclava Street, Bath Lane, Bath Street, Bell Street (west of High Street), Bishop Lane, Bishop Street, Black Street, Blackfriars Street, Blythswood Square, Blythswood Street, Bothwell Lane, Bothwell Street, Bridgegate, Broomielaw, Brown Street, Brunswick Street, Buccleuch Lane, Buccleuch Street, Buchanan Street.
Cadogan Street, Cadzow Street, Cambridge Street, Candleriggs, Carrick Street, Castle Street (south of Glebe Street) Cathedral Street, Chisholm Street, Clyde Street, Cochrane Street, College Street, Collins Street, Couper Place, Couper Street, Cowcaddens Road, Crimea Street.
Dalhousie Lane, Dalhousie Street, Dixon Street, Dobbies Loan (south east of North Hanover Street), Dobbies Loan Place, Douglas Lane, Douglas Street, Drury Street, Dunblane Street, Dundas Lane, Dundas Street, Dundasvale Road, Dunlop Street.
East Bath Lane, Elmbank Crescent, Elmbank Street, Elmbank Street Lane.
Fox Street.
Garth Street, Garnet Street, Garnethill Street, Garscube Road (south of Dobbies Loan), George Square, George Street, Glassford Street, Glebe Court, Glebe Street (McAslin Street to Parson Street), Glebe Street (Stirling Road to Castle Street), Glenmavis Street, Goosedubbs, Gordon Lane, Gordon Street, Grafton Place.
Hanover Street, High Street, Hill Street, Holland Street, Holm Street, Hope Street, Howard Street, Hutcheson Street.
India Street, Ingram Street.
Jamaica Street, James Watt Street, Jocelyn Square, John Street.
Kennedy Street, Killermont Street (west of Buchanan Bus Station access), King Street
Larbert Street, Lister Street.
Maitland Street, Mart Street, Martha Street, Maxwell Street, McAslin Court, McAslin Street, McPhater Street, Merchant Lane, Metropole Lane, Midland Street, Miller Street, Milton Street, Mitchell Lane, Mitchell Street, Montrose Street.
Nelson Mandela Place, New City Road, New Wynd, Newton Street, Nicholas Street, North Court, North Court Lane, North Frederick Street, North Hanover Street (south of Killermont Street), North Portland Street, North Street, North Wallace Street (south of Baird Street).
Oak Street, Old Wynd, Osborne Street, Oswald Street.
Parnie Street, Parson Street, Pitt Street, Port Dundas Place, Port Dundas Road.
Queen Street.
Renfield Lane, Renfield Street, Renfrew Lane, Renfrew Street, Renton Street, Richmond Street, Robertson Lane, Robertson Street, Ropework Lane, Rose Street, Rottenrow, Royal Exchange Court, Royal Exchange Square.
Saltmarket, Saltmarket Place, Sauchiehall Lane, Sauchiehall Street (east of Newton Street), Shamrock Street, Shuttle Street, South Exchange Court, South Frederick Street, Springfield Court, St.Enoch Place, St.Enoch Square, St.George's Road, St. James Road, St.Margaret's Place, St.Mary's Lane, St. Mungo Avenue, St.Peter's Lane, St.Vincent Lane, St.Vincent Place, St.Vincent Street (east of Newton Street), Stewart Street, Stirling Road, Stockwell Place, Stockwell Street.
Taylor Place, Taylor Street, Tontine Lane, Trongate, Tyndrum Street.
Union Place, Union Street.
Virginia Place, Virginia Street.
Walls Street, Washington Street, Waterloo Lane, Waterloo Street, Wellington Lane, Wellington Street, West Campbell Street, West George Lane, West George Street, West Graham Street, West Nile Street, West Regent Lane, West Regent Street, William Street (east of Newton Street), Wilson Street.
York Street.
The splitter island at Waterloo Street & Bishop Lane
Unnamed access road adjacent to 307 Hope Street
Unnamed lane at 11 Bath Street
Unnamed lane adjacent to 13 Queen Street
Unnamed lane adjacent to 32 Midland Street
Unnamed lane between Clyde Street and Howard Street
Unnamed road connecting George Street and Shuttle Street
Unnamed service road adjacent to 284 Bath Street and connecting Bath Street and Sauchiehall Lane
Unnamed service road east of multi-storey carpark 80 Cambridge Street
Unnamed service road south of multi-storey carpark 80 Cambridge Street
Unnamed service road connecting West Nile Street and Nelson Mandela Place (south)
Roads NOT Affected
For clarification, the following roads within the boundary on Fig 1 are excluded from the Traffic Regulation Condition for the purpose of a maintaining “non-compliant” bus access to Buchanan Bus Station from the M8 motorway from east and west and other streets outwith the proposed Low Emission Zone:
M8 (Phoenix Road) w/b On Ramp,
Phoenix Road
Dobbie’s Loan (from north west of North Hanover Street to Garscube Road)
Kyle Street
Baird Street
North Hanover Street (north of Killermont Street)
Killermont Street (east of Buchanan Bus Station access)
Conditions
Condition 1 (Applicable from 31 December 2018)
20% of “journeys” on bus services run by individual bus operators which enter, leave or operate within the streets affected must be operated exclusively by buses:
Condition 2 (Applicable from 31 December 2019)
40% of “journeys” on bus services run by individual bus operators which enter, leave or operate within the streets affected must be operated exclusively by buses:
Condition 3 (Applicable from 31 December 2020)
60% of “journeys” on bus services run by individual bus operators which enter, leave or operate within the streets affected must be operated exclusively by buses:
Condition 4 (Applicable from 31 December 2021)
80% of “journeys” on bus services run by individual bus operators which enter, leave or operate within the streets affected must be operated exclusively by buses:
From Notices and Proceedings for the Scottish Traffic Area dated May 14 2018 details of the proposed LEZ order for Glasgow City Centre:
Section 4 – Traffic Regulation Conditions
Section 4.1 – Requests
Request to determine a Traffic Regulation Condition in Glasgow’s Low Emission Zone.
The Traffic Commissioner has received from the Executive Director, Neighbourhoods and Sustainability, Land and Environmental Services, Glasgow City Council, Exchange House, 231 George Street, Glasgow, G1 1RX a request under Section 7 of the Transport Act 1985 to determine a Traffic Regulation Condition for Glasgow’s Low Emission Zone to improve air quality and deliver a better environment for all.
The proposed Traffic Regulation Condition is as follows:
Glasgow City Centre Low Emission Zone
Traffic Regulation Condition
Traffic Regulation Condition Boundary
The roads affected by the proposed Traffic Regulation Condition are highlighted on Fig 1: Glasgow City Centre Low Emission Zone – Traffic Regulation Condition, and are bounded by and including:-
Clyde Street
Broomielaw,
Newton Street,
M8 (Newton Street) w/b Off Ramp / connector link / M8 (Phoenix Road) w/b On Ramp,
Phoenix Road
Dobbie’s Loan
Kyle Street
Baird Street
M8 w/b / M8 (Stirling Road) w/b On Ramp
Glebe Street
Castle Street
High Street
Saltmarket
Roads Affected
The list of roads affected by the proposed Traffic Regulation Condition is as follows:-
Aird’s Lane, Argyle Street (east of Newton Street).
Balaclava Street, Bath Lane, Bath Street, Bell Street (west of High Street), Bishop Lane, Bishop Street, Black Street, Blackfriars Street, Blythswood Square, Blythswood Street, Bothwell Lane, Bothwell Street, Bridgegate, Broomielaw, Brown Street, Brunswick Street, Buccleuch Lane, Buccleuch Street, Buchanan Street.
Cadogan Street, Cadzow Street, Cambridge Street, Candleriggs, Carrick Street, Castle Street (south of Glebe Street) Cathedral Street, Chisholm Street, Clyde Street, Cochrane Street, College Street, Collins Street, Couper Place, Couper Street, Cowcaddens Road, Crimea Street.
Dalhousie Lane, Dalhousie Street, Dixon Street, Dobbies Loan (south east of North Hanover Street), Dobbies Loan Place, Douglas Lane, Douglas Street, Drury Street, Dunblane Street, Dundas Lane, Dundas Street, Dundasvale Road, Dunlop Street.
East Bath Lane, Elmbank Crescent, Elmbank Street, Elmbank Street Lane.
Fox Street.
Garth Street, Garnet Street, Garnethill Street, Garscube Road (south of Dobbies Loan), George Square, George Street, Glassford Street, Glebe Court, Glebe Street (McAslin Street to Parson Street), Glebe Street (Stirling Road to Castle Street), Glenmavis Street, Goosedubbs, Gordon Lane, Gordon Street, Grafton Place.
Hanover Street, High Street, Hill Street, Holland Street, Holm Street, Hope Street, Howard Street, Hutcheson Street.
India Street, Ingram Street.
Jamaica Street, James Watt Street, Jocelyn Square, John Street.
Kennedy Street, Killermont Street (west of Buchanan Bus Station access), King Street
Larbert Street, Lister Street.
Maitland Street, Mart Street, Martha Street, Maxwell Street, McAslin Court, McAslin Street, McPhater Street, Merchant Lane, Metropole Lane, Midland Street, Miller Street, Milton Street, Mitchell Lane, Mitchell Street, Montrose Street.
Nelson Mandela Place, New City Road, New Wynd, Newton Street, Nicholas Street, North Court, North Court Lane, North Frederick Street, North Hanover Street (south of Killermont Street), North Portland Street, North Street, North Wallace Street (south of Baird Street).
Oak Street, Old Wynd, Osborne Street, Oswald Street.
Parnie Street, Parson Street, Pitt Street, Port Dundas Place, Port Dundas Road.
Queen Street.
Renfield Lane, Renfield Street, Renfrew Lane, Renfrew Street, Renton Street, Richmond Street, Robertson Lane, Robertson Street, Ropework Lane, Rose Street, Rottenrow, Royal Exchange Court, Royal Exchange Square.
Saltmarket, Saltmarket Place, Sauchiehall Lane, Sauchiehall Street (east of Newton Street), Shamrock Street, Shuttle Street, South Exchange Court, South Frederick Street, Springfield Court, St.Enoch Place, St.Enoch Square, St.George's Road, St. James Road, St.Margaret's Place, St.Mary's Lane, St. Mungo Avenue, St.Peter's Lane, St.Vincent Lane, St.Vincent Place, St.Vincent Street (east of Newton Street), Stewart Street, Stirling Road, Stockwell Place, Stockwell Street.
Taylor Place, Taylor Street, Tontine Lane, Trongate, Tyndrum Street.
Union Place, Union Street.
Virginia Place, Virginia Street.
Walls Street, Washington Street, Waterloo Lane, Waterloo Street, Wellington Lane, Wellington Street, West Campbell Street, West George Lane, West George Street, West Graham Street, West Nile Street, West Regent Lane, West Regent Street, William Street (east of Newton Street), Wilson Street.
York Street.
The splitter island at Waterloo Street & Bishop Lane
Unnamed access road adjacent to 307 Hope Street
Unnamed lane at 11 Bath Street
Unnamed lane adjacent to 13 Queen Street
Unnamed lane adjacent to 32 Midland Street
Unnamed lane between Clyde Street and Howard Street
Unnamed road connecting George Street and Shuttle Street
Unnamed service road adjacent to 284 Bath Street and connecting Bath Street and Sauchiehall Lane
Unnamed service road east of multi-storey carpark 80 Cambridge Street
Unnamed service road south of multi-storey carpark 80 Cambridge Street
Unnamed service road connecting West Nile Street and Nelson Mandela Place (south)
Roads NOT Affected
For clarification, the following roads within the boundary on Fig 1 are excluded from the Traffic Regulation Condition for the purpose of a maintaining “non-compliant” bus access to Buchanan Bus Station from the M8 motorway from east and west and other streets outwith the proposed Low Emission Zone:
M8 (Phoenix Road) w/b On Ramp,
Phoenix Road
Dobbie’s Loan (from north west of North Hanover Street to Garscube Road)
Kyle Street
Baird Street
North Hanover Street (north of Killermont Street)
Killermont Street (east of Buchanan Bus Station access)
Conditions
Condition 1 (Applicable from 31 December 2018)
20% of “journeys” on bus services run by individual bus operators which enter, leave or operate within the streets affected must be operated exclusively by buses:
- The engines of which have been type approved as at least the Euro VI standard for all emissions; or
- The exhaust systems of which have been certified by Transport Scotland (or a Transport Scotland approved certifying body) as being fitted with an exhaust device which ensures that, in urban conditions, the emissions of NOx are reduced to a level comparable to Euro VI; or
- Which are powered by an electric motor.
Condition 2 (Applicable from 31 December 2019)
40% of “journeys” on bus services run by individual bus operators which enter, leave or operate within the streets affected must be operated exclusively by buses:
- The engines of which have been type approved as at least the Euro VI standard for all emissions; or
- The exhaust systems of which have been certified by Transport Scotland (or a Transport Scotland approved certifying body) as being fitted with an exhaust device which ensures that, in urban conditions, the emissions of NOx are reduced to a level comparable to Euro VI; or
- Which are powered by an electric motor.
Condition 3 (Applicable from 31 December 2020)
60% of “journeys” on bus services run by individual bus operators which enter, leave or operate within the streets affected must be operated exclusively by buses:
- The engines of which have been type approved as at least the Euro VI standard for all emissions; or
- The exhaust systems of which have been certified by Transport Scotland (or a Transport Scotland approved certifying body) as being fitted with an exhaust device which ensures that, in urban conditions, the emissions of NOx are reduced to a level comparable to Euro VI; or
- Which are powered by an electric motor.
Condition 4 (Applicable from 31 December 2021)
80% of “journeys” on bus services run by individual bus operators which enter, leave or operate within the streets affected must be operated exclusively by buses:
overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2012
- Messages
- 8,162
Just post a NEW THREAD, there is huge big button saying this on the main page...
I was merely asking advice re my first sentence as to whether the moderators wanted to leave the reply in this section or if they may want to create a new thread. I have created a new thread albeit with a spelling error in it.
The posting may also give an indication of the fleet requirements for First Glasgow in order them to conform with the Traffic Order if it is passed by the Traffic Commissioner for Scotland.
The posting may also give an indication of the fleet requirements for First Glasgow in order them to conform with the Traffic Order if it is passed by the Traffic Commissioner for Scotland.
overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2012
- Messages
- 8,162
You dont need to ask Mods about posting new threads, since you have postage an interesting and new topic that justification for you to make a new thread
Mods have better things to 