First Group: General Discussion

[Blindtraveler]

as a siddeline, anyone know if we are keeping all the Scanier Omnideckers flying around East Lothian? Whos were they in the first place? They are sure some of the nicest buses we've had here for a while as far as First go.
Its certainly pleasing the mums and the grannies having them on the X runs instead of coaches although personally for the likes of Dunbar I still think the profiles were better

 

[90019]

Is it a supported route?

I believe so.

 

[overthewater]

as a siddeline, anyone know if we are keeping all the Scanier Omnideckers flying around East Lothian? Whos were they in the first place? They are sure some of the nicest buses we've had here for a while as far as First go.
Its certainly pleasing the mums and the grannies having them on the X runs instead of coaches although personally for the likes of Dunbar I still think the profiles were better

Its believe Muss has four and will be kept for the X6/X8 routes to provide much needed seats instead of the Bendis which were suppose to be used.

Of course Muss may not last much longer either but only time will time.....

I believe so.

No18 is party supported, First operates the service under contract to Edinburgh city council, While Lothian operate the peak runs commercial, IE to place journeys for other routes and to cash in on peak customers

 

[Blindtraveler]

off peek 18 mainly carries round fresh air anyway in my experience
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Its believe Muss has four and will be kept for the X6/X8 routes to provide much needed seats instead of the Bendis which were suppose to be used.

Of course Muss may not last much longer either but only time will time.....




No18 is party supported, First operates the service under contract to Edinburgh city council, While Lothian operate the peak runs commercial, IE to place journeys for other routes and to cash in on peak customers

what vehicles will they use on the peek time extras on X6 and X8 I wonder?

 

[overthewater]

Its being reported that three buses have been given the new livery in Aberdeen.

 

[tbtc]

Its being reported that three buses have been given the new livery in Aberdeen.

Has anyone seen a list of places that have had the new livery vs places that haven't?

For example, Sheffield and Rotherham have seen vehicles repainted, but Doncaster hasn't - Leeds has but IIRC York hasn't - as a guide to what might be on the "sell" list (or just coincidence)...

 

[overthewater]

Has anyone seen a list of places that have had the new livery vs places that haven't?

For example, Sheffield and Rotherham have seen vehicles repainted, but Doncaster hasn't - Leeds has but IIRC York hasn't - as a guide to what might be on the "sell" list (or just coincidence)...

Aberdeen is an network review aswell:
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/aberdeen/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=6111&conf=0

Places that haven't
* Northampton
* South Wales
* Wyvan
* Cornwall
* York
* Chester
* Doncaster
* Leicester
* Norfolk area.
* First Glasgow
* Most of First Scotland East Expect Muss depot, said buses would have still gotten the repaint as there 7 years old, dare say its to make the new network look nice etc...

Rest has had new scheme

 

[Ivo]

Rest has had new scheme

I'm yet to see it anywhere under Bristol, Somerset & Avon, even though you've suggested it exists already?

 

[37012]

I know, I work for them.
It was only for a week, though, and First are now back to using their own buses again.

Only the buses were Lothian, it was Firstbus drivers who were driving them.
Currently, the 18 is operated by Lothian in the morning and evening and by First during the day Monday to Friday, and by First all day Saturday and Sunday.

Buses and driver from Lothian also the midlothian local service the 92 was being run by LB on hire to FIE.

There is a shortage not only of buses but staff at Dalkeith as many staff have moved onto pastures new already as the redundancy payments from First were barely above the legal minimum.

All other operators in Lothain have taken over the bus routes with some smaller operators now encroaching into Lothians territory too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Of course Muss may not last much longer either but only time will time.....

Musselburgh and North Berwick are going on 90 days notice once Dalkeith shuts at the end of the month to see how they perform.

First are keeping their profitable West Lothian services and will probably merge them into the old Midland side of the business as the rest of the old Eastern Scottish operation seem to be getting marginalised.

 

[overthewater]

I'm yet to see it anywhere under Bristol, Somerset & Avon, even though you've suggested it exists already?

Does this count? https://twitter.com/passtrans/status/213668334741364736/photo/1 Its still a new one, and why waste money on that if the rest will not be getting done.

Musselburgh and North Berwick are going on 90 days notice once Dalkeith shuts at the end of the month to see how they perform.First are keeping their profitable West Lothian services and will probably merge them into the old Midland side of the business as the rest of the old Eastern Scottish operation seem to be getting marginalised.

Profitable West lothian? That's news to many of us, as even the drivers say there making no money. If it does make money why are there short of buses etc. The talk is that is the next depot to go with stagecoach eyeing it up.

Thus letting first get on with improving old Midlands business.

 

[tbtc]

Aberdeen is an network review aswell:
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/aberdeen/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=6111&conf=0

Places that haven't
* Northampton
* South Wales
* Wyvan
* Cornwall
* York
* Chester
* Doncaster
* Leicester
* Norfolk area.
* First Glasgow
* Most of First Scotland East Expect Muss depot, said buses would have still gotten the repaint as there 7 years old, dare say its to make the new network look nice etc...

Rest has had new scheme

Cheers - apart from Glasgow that looks like a fair guide to the bits that they aren't so keen on keeping

 

[Ivo]

Does this count? https://twitter.com/passtrans/status/213668334741364736/photo/1 Its still a new one, and why waste money on that if the rest will not be getting done.

It counts in that it's a new livery, but it's a case of an already branded route just receiving "new" buses and new vinyls. It's not the same as the other overhauls that are happening elsewhere.

 

[90019]

Buses and driver from Lothian also the midlothian local service the 92 was being run by LB on hire to FIE.

AFAIK, the 92 and 92A were a mix of Lothian and First drivers, but the 18 was First guys during the times it's operated by First.

 

[MK Tom]

I'm sorry I know I keep bringing this up but is there any news from Northampton? Not just regarding sales of the whole operation but of specific routes or anything like that?

 

[37012]

Profitable West lothian? That's news to many of us, as even the drivers say there making no money. If it does make money why are there short of buses etc. The talk is that is the next depot to go with stagecoach eyeing it up.

Thus letting first get on with improving old Midlands business.

Thats the excuse they gave to Dalkeith drivers, that the West Lothain services into Edinburgh made money while the East and Mid didn't. I wouldn't think it would be Stagecoach but Horsburgh in the way McGills took over Arriva in and around Paisley.

Some good news as some drivers are getting taken on by Lothian at £10 an hour, so will get a pay rise along with their redundancy and others have been transferred to other First depots.

 

[overthewater]

Thats the excuse they gave to Dalkeith drivers, that the West Lothain services into Edinburgh made money while the East and Mid didn't. I wouldn't think it would be Stagecoach but Horsburgh in the way McGills took over Arriva in and around Paisley.

Some good news as some drivers are getting taken on by Lothian at £10 an hour, so will get a pay rise along with their redundancy and others have been transferred to other First depots.

I get the feeling the route from West Lothian into Edinburgh makes "more" money that the route on the other side.

More being a bit losses with words......

That very good to hear about the drivers, hopeful most will found new jobs

 

[mbonwick]

I'm sorry I know I keep bringing this up but is there any news from Northampton? Not just regarding sales of the whole operation but of specific routes or anything like that?

Still nothing concrete, though I note from Yahoo Groups that a second 2002 B7L has been transferred to Norwich with an S reg L94UB coming the other way.
Call me a cynic, but it looks like the start of asset stripping to me, so possibly post-Olympics for the sell off?

 

[MK Tom]

Is the L94UB what I'd look at and say ''Ooh, it's a Wright Cadet''?

It certainly does look like that, but the gradual reduction of First Northampton routes over the last eight-ten years also looks like that.

 

[mbonwick]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/britishbuses/5288572726/

Is the vehicle in question, now at Northampton.

 

[MCW]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/britishbuses/5288572726/

Is the vehicle in question, now at Northampton.

that's an alright vehicle... is it low floor though?

also have anymore B7's left Northampton? Only ask cause I saw a gleaming (yes that's right gleaming, a rare sight!!!) B7 decker on the A426 near my house, not recognised the reg or the number before?? could be a cast off?

also IDK why they are interested in Leicester.....

the more I look at comments on my campaigning pages and comments from other campaigners indicate people are not happy with their service? strange,

 

[MK Tom]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/britishbuses/5288572726/

Is the vehicle in question, now at Northampton.

That's a Wright Cadet to my eyes, but I do get terribly confused at times. I always favour body name over chassis.

I saw that at Greyfriars last week - so is the plan to move all the Eclipses off to Norwich and the Geminis as well?

 

[37012]

I get the feeling the route from West Lothian into Edinburgh makes "more" money that the route on the other side.

It seems like First are trying to Cherry pick what they want while dumping the less profitable routes.I think this will come back to bite them as passengers will move to the other operators and in Scotland I would think the Holyrood government might look on this descision unfavourably when the rail franchise comes up for renewal

 

[tbtc]

Still nothing concrete, though I note from Yahoo Groups that a second 2002 B7L has been transferred to Norwich with an S reg L94UB coming the other way

Is Norwich want any more of that batch of B7Ls we have fifty in Sheffield that cannot cope with our hills and would love some nice flat East Anglian roads

 

[mbonwick]

It seems like First are trying to Cherry pick what they want while dumping the less profitable routes.I think this will come back to bite them as passengers will move to the other operators and in Scotland I would think the Holyrood government might look on this descision unfavourably when the rail franchise comes up for renewal

Firsts bus activities cannot be taken into account when awarding the rail franchise. Besides, said franchise is awarded by the DfT, not Holyrood.

The only possible implications for First having both bus and rail operations in Scotland is the Competition Comission, but they cleared it when First took on Scotrail.

 

[overthewater]

Firsts bus activities cannot be taken into account when awarding the rail franchise. Besides, said franchise is awarded by the DfT, not Holyrood.

The only possible implications for First having both bus and rail operations in Scotland is the Competition Commission, but they cleared it when First took on Scotrail.

Thats incorrect, Holyrood does control Scotrail, and have done for the past seven year....

The Scottish goverment assumed responsibility for managing and monitoring the ScotRail Franchise as a result of the Railways Act 2005. On 2 April 2008 the Scottish Ministers executed the extension option in the contract, so the contract expiry is now 2014.

There also now decided who operates it, hence the reports in to what changes are needed in 2014;

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/SPICeResources/Research briefings and fact sheets/SB_10-90.pdf

http://www.holyrood.com/articles/20...-looking-at-the-future-of-scotlands-railways/

Alas, CC did clear it, but instated alot of Controls on many routes and theses controls that are/were causing alot of the trouble for First. Both FSE and FG have gone back to the OFT/CC etc to asked if some can be gotten rid. Most of the trouble in Livingston ( The other depot (RUMOURED) being well highlighted as being line up for disposal ) are caused by those controls.

But the talk is First will have a real battle AS anyone looking at First providing bus and rail can clearly see it not going very well, and its believed there getting rid of half of FSE and some parts of FG to make it far easier to keep Scotrail.

 

[Schnellzug]

That's a Wright Cadet to my eyes, but I do get terribly confused at times. I always favour body name over chassis.

I saw that at Greyfriars last week - so is the plan to move all the Eclipses off to Norwich and the Geminis as well?

[pedant hat]
The Cadet is the short version they only used on the VDL SB120 ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/fido100/6103498701/ ); the equivalent on the Dart and B6 was the Crusader. Wrigths used all sorts of wierd names; on the Scanias I think they were called Axcess-Ultralow or something memorable like that.

 

[Ivo]

Wrigths used all sorts of wierd names; on the Scanias I think they were called Axcess-Ultralow or something memorable like that.

Was Axcess-Ultralow actually the body name? hock: I had always thought it was just a description of some kind!

But yes, that does exist. I think the same tag applied to Lances as well. Axcess-Ultralow vehicles are typified by 11m bodies, spacious interiors - and painfully hard suspensions, especially in the case of the rear axle.

 

[mbonwick]

Thats incorrect, Holyrood does control Scotrail, for the past seven year....

The Scottish goverment assumed responsibility for managing and monitoring the ScotRail Franchise as a result of the Railways Act 2005. On 2 April 2008 the Scottish Ministers executed the extension option in the contract, so the contract expiry is now 2014.

There also now decided who operates it, hence the reports in to what changes are needed in 2014;

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/SPICeResources/Research briefings and fact sheets/SB_10-90.pdf

http://www.holyrood.com/articles/20...-looking-at-the-future-of-scotlands-railways/

Alas, CC did clear it Alot of Controls were put on many routes and its this what is causing alot of the trouble for First. Both FSE and FG have gone to them and asked to the get rid a good number of them. Most of the trouble in Livingston the other depot being well highlighted as being line up for disposal (RUMOURED) is caused by those controls.

But the talk is First will have a real battle AS anyone looking at First providing bus and rail can clearly see it not going very well, and its believed there getting rid of half of FSE and some parts of FG to make it far easier to keep Scotrail.

OK, so I got that wrong.

The fact remains that First's bus network cannot be held against them when bidding for Rail franchises, only looked at retrospectively by the CC if the OFT deems there to be a problem.

 

[overthewater]

OK, so I got that wrong.

The fact remains that First's bus network cannot be held against them when bidding for Rail franchises, only looked at retrospectively by the CC if the OFT deems there to be a problem.

So why were the "controls" put on alot of First bus network in 2004?

If there never cared in the first place that first had bus networks said controls would have never been place.

 

[mbonwick]

Because the OFT deemed there to be a loss in competition, so the CC got involved.

What I'm saying is that at the bidding stage, it is illegal to discriminate against First because of its buses, not least because the bus division is a separate company.

The competition authorities then get involved once the franchise has been awarded.