FirstGWR Pembroke Dock Services - Staff Issues 2016

[ChiefPlanner]

It was booked a 47, I remember the train

If only poor Tom Clift (RIP) was around to elucidate us on this:

 

[Pacerpilot]

They don't need to see how the different braking characteristics of an IC125 effect where they need to start slowing for each stop then.

Its not often you ever get the luxury of learning a route in the traction that you will eventually drive over it.
eg, I learned Westbury - Eastleigh in Class 158s, which was a whole world away from dragging a 3000t HOBC down there with a 66.

 

[Envoy]

I travelled on the ‘Pembroke Coast Express’ westbound as far as Tenby last summer. It was very full all the way to Tenby - looked pretty empty on heading off to Pembroke Dock.

 

[6Gman]

I travelled on the ‘Pembroke Coast Express’ westbound as far as Tenby last summer. It was very full all the way to Tenby - looked pretty empty on heading off to Pembroke Dock.

Tenby being ever so slightly more attractive a town ...

 

[allaction]

Following on from an earlier post, please can someone confirm that it is September 2018 that the GWR through services will be ending?

I wonder if ATW will have plans to improve their services on the line on summer Saturdays when GWR depart?

I can confirm that passenger numbers on the services to and from Tenby, where I live, are pretty good, but fall off dramatically beyond here.

 

[PHILIPE]

Following on from an earlier post, please can someone confirm that it is September 2018 that the GWR through services will be ending?

I wonder if ATW will have plans to improve their services on the line on summer Saturdays when GWR depart?

I can confirm that passenger numbers on the services to and from Tenby, where I live, are pretty good, but fall off dramatically beyond here.

I think this question re 2018 is somewhat premature at the moment.

 

[allaction]

I think this question re 2018 is somewhat premature at the moment.

If electrification is delayed, will GWR be compelled to continue through services to Pembroke Dock beyond 2018?

 

[krus_aragon]

I think this question re 2018 is somewhat premature at the moment.

There's also the fact that ATW's franchise ends in 2018, so any "taking up the slack" will largely be up to the new operator.

 

[jimm]

Following on from an earlier post, please can someone confirm that it is September 2018 that the GWR through services will be ending?

I wonder if ATW will have plans to improve their services on the line on summer Saturdays when GWR depart?

I can confirm that passenger numbers on the services to and from Tenby, where I live, are pretty good, but fall off dramatically beyond here.

I can't 'confirm' it, but simply putting some basic facts together means it is highly likely that there will not be a London-Tenby/Pembroke Dock train after September 2018.

A 26-metre coach will not fit through Narberth Tunnel due to the limited clearances, so that means Class 800s will not be allowed on the Pembroke Dock Line.

GWR will not have any full-length HSTs after December 2018, and GWR and Network Rail don't want HSTs anywhere near London on the GWML after that point.

The current GWR direct award franchise ends in April 2019, so there is no obligation on any operator to provide a through service from London after the summer of 2018.

Should GWR be given DfT consent to retain a small number of HSTs after 2018 for West Country semi-fast use, then potentially they could provide one for a Cardiff to Tenby queuebuster on summer Saturdays, but given the demand for seats to and from the West Country on the same days, I doubt one could be spared for South Wales.

I expect the bidders for the next Wales franchise will be asked to come up with ideas for providing extra summer Saturday capacity to Tenby to replace the HSTs.

Whether it is significant or not, more likely just a reflection of the reality post-2018, the GWR network map in the IET launch brochure issued the other week does not show the Pembroke Dock route but does include the Exeter-Okehampton trains as a GWR summer/limited service.

 

[allaction]

Many thanks jimm for a very comprehensive answer.

By the way, I don't think the first GWR HST service to Pembroke Dock made it past Carmarthen at 0816 this morning... more qualified staff shortages?

 

[PHILIPE]

Many thanks jimm for a very comprehensive answer.

By the way, I don't think the first GWR HST service to Pembroke Dock made it past Carmarthen at 0816 this morning... more qualified staff shortages?

GWR Journey Check stated short of drivers, but GWR Twitter in response to query re train, stated signalling problem !!! The only mention I can see of any signalling problem is at Neath so doubt if that was the right reason.

 

[allaction]

The train reached Carmarthen from Swansea, but the platform signs then showed it as cancelled to Pembroke Dock... I suspect the staff shortage reason was the correct one.

 

[PHILIPE]

The train reached Carmarthen from Swansea, but the platform signs then showed it as cancelled to Pembroke Dock... I suspect the staff shortage reason was the correct one.

Perhaps it was foresight re signalling problem. There is a problem at Whitland this afternoon.

 

[allaction]

Perhaps the rapidly disintegrating window sills that I noticed on the Whitland signal box as I passed today have led to a shutdown of the signalling system? ??????

 

[headshot119]

Perhaps the rapidly disintegrating window sills that I noticed on the Whitland signal box as I passed today have led to a shutdown of the signalling system? ��

Nothing like froth and wibble

Official reason for today's cancellation was a shortage of drivers with route knowledge.

 

[allaction]

I've written to Tenby Town Council to alert them to the current intermittent services and also to ask them to make representations to the various stakeholders regarding an upgrading of provision of meaningful services (and rolling stock) after 2018.

Let's see...

 

[Rhydgaled]

I don't think the first GWR HST service to Pembroke Dock made it past Carmarthen at 0816 this morning

The 09:58 Pembroke Dock to Paddington return working certainly was started from Carmarthen when I saw it there earlier. I'm pretty sure the afternoon service ran through to Pembroke Dock however, I think that's the first time I've seen that one run through and the morning one being truncated.

I think this question re 2018 is somewhat premature at the moment.

I expect the bidders for the next Wales franchise will be asked to come up with ideas for providing extra summer Saturday capacity to Tenby to replace the HSTs.

Agreed, it is an issue for the next Wales & Borders franchise, but how long does it generally take for a new franchise to aquire additional rolling stock? There is often a fairly long lead time before improvements can be introduced, so I wonder whether the the Welsh Government may have to step in to secure a lease on any stock being released for the first year of the new franchise so that it can be introduced in time to cover the 2019 summer timetable. And procurement for the franchise is starting now, the OJEU notice is due this month with an 'Invitation to participate in dialogue' following in September and 'dialogue commences' in November.

I've written to Tenby Town Council to alert them to the current intermittent services and also to ask them to make representations to the various stakeholders regarding an upgrading of provision of meaningful services (and rolling stock) after 2018.

Good idea, it might be worth also writting to the five assembly members that represent you.

 

[Rhydgaled]

One year on, it is almost May and I was wondering whether GWR have conducted the necessary staff training this year or will the first few weeks see services terminate at Carmarthen again?

 

[Pacerpilot]

The former.

 

[313103]

Make the most of this (if they do run) this will be the last year a through passenger train will operate between Paddington to Pembroke Dock. The new iep stock are currently not permitted beyond Carmathen.

 

[Envoy]

Make the most of this (if they do run) this will be the last year a through passenger train will operate between Paddington to Pembroke Dock. The new iep stock are currently not permitted beyond Carmathen.

It is ironic that a 5 coach IEP would have been ideal for services down to Tenby and perhaps Pembroke Dock on summer Saturdays. I wonder if one could cope with the curve in the Narberth tunnel? Do they know for sure?

 

[PHILIPE]

It is ironic that a 5 coach IEP would have been ideal for services down to Tenby and perhaps Pembroke Dock on summer Saturdays. I wonder if one could cope with the curve in the Narberth tunnel? Do they know for sure?

They probably don't. There is probably just no intention to operate the services by GWR and route availability nowadays is shown only for routes over which trains are going to be diagrammed plus diversionary routes. Clearance can be arranged retrospectively if so desired, an example being when ATW required clearance for 175s to to Cheltenham as it was a useful route on which to use them so was duly arranged.

 

[jimm]

Make the most of this (if they do run) this will be the last year a through passenger train will operate between Paddington to Pembroke Dock. The new iep stock are currently not permitted beyond Carmathen.

I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself there.

The Greater Western Franchise Service Level Commitment 3a states in black and white in the summary at the start.

From Dec 18: The Seasonal Pembroke Dock Service Withdrawn

suggesting the expectation is that this service will run in summer 2018 - though GWR may ask to be excused on the basis of HST availability and traction knowledge at Swansea depot by this time next year.

Full SLC is here

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...tern-service-level-commitment-3a-22032015.pdf

It is ironic that a 5 coach IEP would have been ideal for services down to Tenby and perhaps Pembroke Dock on summer Saturdays. I wonder if one could cope with the curve in the Narberth tunnel? Do they know for sure?

Short of re-boring that tunnel, I doubt there is any prospect of a 26m coach ever getting down that line - even Mk3s only just squeeze through.

 

[Rhydgaled]

It is ironic that a 5 coach IEP would have been ideal for services down to Tenby and perhaps Pembroke Dock on summer Saturdays. I wonder if one could cope with the curve in the Narberth tunnel? Do they know for sure?

Ideal for Tenby from where exactly? 5-cars is probably about right for Swansea to Tenby/Pembroke Dock, or Cardiff to Tenby if they ran express via the Swansea District Line, but I wouldn't be too sure about Paddington to Tenby or Cardiff to Swansea with a 5-car set. Yes you can run them in multiple but I don't like the idea of portion working with units that don't have UEGs, that's not in the best interests of passengers.

The former.

Staff all trainned up then, glad to hear it. Hope I'll get to see 43185 and 43002 down this way this year.

Make the most of this (if they do run) this will be the last year a through passenger train will operate between Paddington to Pembroke Dock. The new iep stock are currently not permitted beyond Carmathen.

I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself there.

The Greater Western Franchise Service Level Commitment 3a states in black and white in the summary at the start.

suggesting the expectation is that this service will run in summer 2018 - though GWR may ask to be excused on the basis of HST availability and traction knowledge at Swansea depot by this time next year.

I hope they do run in 2018, as I would like to go on the last run of an IC125 from Pembroke Dock to Paddington.

2018 might not be the end though, as I tried asking Transport for Wales whether they are aware the GWR service is due for withdrawal in 2018 (so that they make allowances for 2019 onwards in the new W&B franchise) and the reply contained this interesting bit:

We understand that the Department for Transport is working with the Great Western Railway franchise operator to explore whether it will be possible to continue to operate direct services through to Pembroke Dock beyond 2018

Sounds like they are trying to answer the question of whether a class 800 will fit down the branch or not.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Good to hear that by the sounds of it staff refreshers are going ahead as Im due to do this at the end of June. U have a hunch that it woant run next year with ATW possibly stepping in with LHCS instead so im viewing as a last chance.

 

[221129]

Good to hear that by the sounds of it staff refreshers are going ahead as Im due to do this at the end of June. U have a hunch that it woant run next year with ATW possibly stepping in with LHCS instead so im viewing as a last chance.

There is no hunch... it is not happening next year onwards.

 

[MotCO]

I believe I am right in saying that when tunnels near Hastings had insufficient clearance for new stock, the two tracks were replaced by a single track. Is this solution possible in the Narbeth tunnel to provide sufficient clearance for the new class 800 trains?

 

[D1009]

Sounds like they are trying to answer the question of whether a class 800 will fit down the branch or not.

I think I read somewhere in theory that class 80x stock should fit anywhere cleared for Mk 3s, on account of the space between the bogies and therefore the mid vehicle overhang being the same, also the ends of the coaches are tapered. Obviously route clearance would be necessary.

 

[GW43125]

I believe I am right in saying that when tunnels near Hastings had insufficient clearance for new stock, the two tracks were replaced by a single track. Is this solution possible in the Narbeth tunnel to provide sufficient clearance for the new class 800 trains?

That was different though, Hastings was an issue of stock being too wide, this is an issue of stock being too long (ie ends of carriages clipping the tunnel as it goes round a curve)

 

[AlterEgo]

That was different though, Hastings was an issue of stock being too wide, this is an issue of stock being too long (ie ends of carriages clipping the tunnel as it goes round a curve)

Doesn't mean the solution can't be the same. If you single and centre the line you improve the loading gauge.