Five Class 319/769s for the Welsh Network

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Dai Corner, 17 Jul 2017.

  1. Dai Corner

    Dai Corner Member

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    It appears we are going to get five Cl319 Flex electro-diesels, and further unspecified stock

    http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-electro-diesel-multiple-units-for-wales.html



     
  2. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Accurate reporting from Railway Gazette unlike ITV

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2017-...-wales-most-crowded-services-to-be-announced/


    Slightly better from the South Wales Argus
    http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/15413850.Five_new_trains_will_be_on_lines_in_Wales_in_2018/

    at least they acknowledge there for PPM mods.

     
    Last edited: 17 Jul 2017
  3. PaulHarding150

    PaulHarding150 Member

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    Extra capacity for the Wales and Borders franchise from next year it seems...

    Source: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/twenty-new-train-coaches-coming-13338737

    Edit: it's 5 x 4-car trains, the heading I've used is not accurate, appologies.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jul 2017
  4. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Title should say ATW to take on 5 x 769s. The bi-mode 319s will be 769s and it's 20 carriages not 20 trains.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jul 2017
  5. Townsend Hook

    Townsend Hook Member

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    Slightly off topic, but as to 'whether electric trains carrying diesel would be allowed in the tunnels' GBRf 73/9s are down there every four weeks or so on PLPR trains.
     
  6. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Confusion and Speculation down at the Western Mail

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/twenty-new-train-coaches-coming-13338737

     
  7. CosherB

    CosherB Established Member

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    Don't spoil the welshies moment of glory in the media sunshine with such technicalities!!! ;)
     
  8. PaulHarding150

    PaulHarding150 Member

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    Yes, I did edit the story at 9:10 but can't edit the title.
     
  9. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    Great to see hand-me-down unproven stock being deployed in South Wales :(
     
  10. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    They'll be disappointed if they think they are getting 20 trains when only 5 turn up!
     
  11. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    You need to click 'Go Advanced' after you've clicked Edit/Delete to be able to edit the title.
     
  12. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    ...as well as not spoiling the anticipated silence of PEP diehards in light of this news :D
     
  13. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    If they are unreliable ATW will find out prior to taking delivery when Northern's units cause chaos by blocking the WCML or block the cross-Manchester line.
     
  14. Townsend Hook

    Townsend Hook Member

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    Gotta be proven somewhere..
     
  15. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Mk3-derived EMUs won't fit in the Merseyrail tunnels, will they? Nice idea in principle, though - anyone for a generator module in some of the FLIRTs?
     
  16. Camden

    Camden Established Member

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    Don't think they can get through the Mersey tunnels without the flat roof and having a pantograph on top, but if they can one issue I would identify is timekeeping.

    Locals wouldn't be impressed if Merseyrail trains have to be cancelled entirely or at intermediate stations to get the system back running to time (standard practice) to make up for a late arriving interloper!

    Perhaps more likely to be used on the new Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn service? Pan up/down at Runcorn?
     
  17. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    That would seem a sensible plan considering:
    1. The business plan was based on using 4 car 150s or equivalent but given the lack of available 150s, a bi-mode 769 is an equivalent.
    2. The Allerton facility could be used for any maintenance.
    3. Unlike other routes there are overheads which can be used for part of the journey.
     
  18. MatthewRead

    MatthewRead Member

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    They're great trains:D
     
  19. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    As 319s maybe, as 769s they're unproven and untested (yet).
     
  20. Bertie the bus

    Bertie the bus Member

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    Another nail in the coffin of the D-train. Good.
     
  21. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    More accurately proven as successful trains for Thameslink. The reliability on Northern and LM routes is still way below the reliability of 323s and more on a par with Sprinters. Yet one of the selling points of electric trains is they are more reliable than diesel trains.
     
  22. PaulHarding150

    PaulHarding150 Member

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    On further reading it seems that when these appear next year ATW will remove some of their existing stock to make them DDA compliment.

    Obviously no news on the date that the five units will appear in Wales (they might come at once or they might come one at a time) but if units are then removed from the network for a period of time it could easily be January 2019 before there is any noticeable increase.
     
  23. MatthewRead

    MatthewRead Member

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    Oh no I hope the D trains finds some operating work.
     
  24. CosherB

    CosherB Established Member

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    And yet you also say:

    So which do you prefer for diesel ops?
     
  25. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    Good news all round.
    I expect the 5x769s will be based at Allerton with the rest of them, and will work the Liverpool-Chester service and other services through Chester.
    Say the Crewe and Bidston shuttles, and maybe a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
    ATW can then cascade onwards.
    I doubt they will appear in South Wales.
    Arriva will want to keep 769s on a short rein until their performance is proved.
    It's also an "Arriva" solution, with shared services between Northern and ATW.
    Presumably DfT and WG agreed the funding to get the PRM job on the road.
    I should think Porterbrook would be happy too.
    For once the industry is getting it right.
     
  26. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Bidston service don't actually go through Chester and the total number required for Liverpool-Chester, Chester-Crewe and Bidston-Wrexham would be 5 units so that would require them all with no maintenance/spare and certainly nothing left over to work a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
     
  27. mwmbwls

    mwmbwls Member

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    Have any 25kV wires been commissioned in Wales yet? What are the proposed commissioning dates? Is it now envisaged that work about to start on the Halton Curve will include preliminaries for electrification?
    Is the link going to be wired in whole or in part from inception?

    With Merseytravel gearing up for an all Stadler fleet I cannot see them welcoming 769's on their Metro network - disrupting the level train/platform programme.

    Where do ATW run four car 150/158 sets now?
     
  28. gareth950

    gareth950 Member

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    So this is being hailed by some news outlets as an increase in capacity for W&B, yet these 5 extra trains will be used essentially as cover whilst presumably the equivalent number of 158s and/or 150/2s are away for mods. So no increase in capacity overall then.

    Note also that the article says at the end that this is expected to allow the 'majority' of the W&B fleet to be compliant by 2020.
    Presumably this means Pacers are going by 31/12/2019.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jul 2017
  29. PaulHarding150

    PaulHarding150 Member

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    I traveled on a four car 158 yesterday from Hollyhead to Shrewsbury.

    4 car 158s are often used on the Cambrian line and most peak time trains to/from Ebbw Vale are four cars made up of 150 and/or 158.
     
  30. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    A 4 Car unit would be wasted on most of these in the north.
     

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