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Fixed penalty fare - when I could have shown my ticket on a laptop

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some bloke

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The staff member seems to have gone beyond their role in talking about the panel upholding your appeal:
"If you neglect to carry your valid ticket with you...you will be treated as having joined the service without a valid ticket regardless of any supporting evidence you present."
https://www.appealservice.co.uk/Faq

There was no reference at all, on the form, to the relevant legislation or to any supplementary guidance.
That might be technically a defect in the regulations rather than grounds for saying the company failed to comply with them. It seems to me that 5(2)(g) - see below - should say companies and the appeals body have to provide a link to the regulations and a list of the grounds for appeal, at the time the fare is charged and when someone is submitting an appeal online.

Did the company comply with the regulations by giving you this information at the time?
Penalty Fare Regulations 2018 said:
5. ... (2) Where a collector charges a penalty fare to a person under paragraph (1), the collector must provide that person with the following information in writing at the time the penalty fare is charged—

(a)a statement that the person is being charged a penalty fare;

(b)an explanation of why the person is being charged a penalty fare;

(c)the identification number of the collector;

(d)the name of the operator on whose behalf the penalty fare is charged;

(e)the penalty fare number;

(f)the amount of the penalty fare;

(g)a statement that the person has the right to appeal against the penalty fare and an explanation of how the person can appeal;

(h)a statement that the person must either pay, or appeal against, the penalty fare within 21 days beginning with the day following the day on which the penalty fare is charged;

(i)an explanation of how the penalty fare may be paid; and

(j)a statement that the person is entitled to a receipt if they pay the penalty fare.
 

najaB

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When the penalty was issued, the Greater Anglia officer said that if I could prove I had previously bought the right ticket, the notice would be cancelled.
Did he say it "would" be cancelled, or that it "may", "could" or "should" be cancelled? It should never have been the first one.
 
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Llanigraham

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That would be the next step if the appeal is turned down and you still refuse to pay, usually a claims court or county court.

Correction, the case would go to a Magistrates Court.


Thanks for the advice. One of the two grounds, I remember (please bear in mind that this information is erased after you submit the appeal form) was that the officer "failed to exercise their discretion" to waive the penalty. I suppose they can use this discretion if there is no facility to buy a ticket at the boarding station. The other ground was equally narrow - that the passenger was not liable to pay for some reason or other, perhaps. The penalty appeal system reminds me of schools appeals. In principle, it's purely administrative, you just fill in the form, and getting a lawyer involved gives you no advantage. In practice, a lawyer hardly ever loses a school appeal, whereas the unassisted parent loses 50% of the time. I take your point that if the rail appeal form is defective, this can become grounds for further appeal. There was no reference at all, on the form, to the relevant legislation or to any supplementary guidance.

Sorry, but comparing this to a schools appeal is not appropriate.
 

trebor79

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I've found GA to be quite reasonable.
A while ago I accidentally boarded the train 30 minutes before the one specified on my advance ticket.
Guard spotted it and rightly told me I had to buy a new ticket.
Later I realised he'd sold me an anytime single,when I should have been sold an off-peak single.
I wrote a polite email to GA, admitting my error and not disputing that I was correctly made to buy a new ticket, but pointing out I should have been sold the off-peak ticket. I requested a refund of the difference in price between what I was sold and what I should have been sold.
They asked for a photo of both tickets. I could only send them a photo of the one the guard did me, explaining I'd thrown away my advance on the train as it was worthless per the terms and conditions.
GA straight away apologised for the mistake and refunded me the entire cost of the ticket I was sold by the guard.

So in my experience they are reasonable to deal with.
 

WesternLancer

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I've found GA to be quite reasonable.
A while ago I accidentally boarded the train 30 minutes before the one specified on my advance ticket.
Guard spotted it and rightly told me I had to buy a new ticket.
Later I realised he'd sold me an anytime single,when I should have been sold an off-peak single.
I wrote a polite email to GA, admitting my error and not disputing that I was correctly made to buy a new ticket, but pointing out I should have been sold the off-peak ticket. I requested a refund of the difference in price between what I was sold and what I should have been sold.
They asked for a photo of both tickets. I could only send them a photo of the one the guard did me, explaining I'd thrown away my advance on the train as it was worthless per the terms and conditions.
GA straight away apologised for the mistake and refunded me the entire cost of the ticket I was sold by the guard.

So in my experience they are reasonable to deal with.
or got muddled up over what refund you were due! :smile:
But yes, good point.
 
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