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Flailing and arm waving silliness

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Cowley

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OK we all know it's stupid, irresponsible and childish.

Where did it come from though? Who did it first and where (and why for gods sake)?
The earliest photos I've seen of it happening are behind class 40s in the early 80s but did it happen before that with followers of Deltic or Westerns maybe?
Does anyone have any idea what started this strange phenomenon that we've been stuck with for decades? :|


(Not my phlailing)
 

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theageofthetra

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Not sure if it would be classed a flailing but kids from my school would go out of the door of one EPB compartment along the running board to the next one on our school train. After an incident where a door didn't get shut properly and it got hit by another train they stopped using the 'dog boxes' on our school train for a bit. My father can certainly remember one of his school mates going out of the window of some ancient EMU over the roof clinging to the ventilators and trunking and back in the opposite window. The bloke who did it is still going strong & now nearly 80 so must have become more risk adverse in later years!
 

Cowley

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Not sure if it would be classed a flailing but kids from my school would go out of the door of one EPB compartment along the running board to the next one on our school train. After an incident where a door didn't get shut properly and it got hit by another train they stopped using the 'dog boxes' on our school train for a bit. My father can certainly remember one of his school mates going out of the window of some ancient EMU over the roof clinging to the ventilators and trunking and back in the opposite window. The bloke who did it is still going strong & now nearly 80 so must have become more risk adverse in later years!

That sounds absolutely terrifying. Like something Harold Lloyd would do.
 
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Calthrop

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On a more general tack, but prompted by the OP and succeeding two posts: I’ve long found this sort of “goonery” indulged in by a minority of railway enthusiasts, irritating – and not primarily because of the danger factor sometimes present, as in the scene in Cowley’s picture. I would reckon that it’s been around for a long time: human nature being what it is, probably as long as the hobby has existed...

This sort of caper-cutting – most often, involving getting into grotesque physical attitudes and positions – tended especially when I was younger, to make me, in person a fairly introverted and subdued type, feel somewhat nerdish and dull and generally inferior (not that I actually wanted to perform these idiot cantrips). It’s stuff that some people do, especially some males – attempts to impress the female of the species, no doubt part of this “bag of tricks” (though on the overwhelmingly male gricing scene, that would seem to be wasted effort). I’ve always felt that hobbies should be potentially, a pleasant refuge from some of the more aggressive and competitive facets of human social behaviour: diverse individuals united by their shared interest in a particular subject, rather than trying to in various ways out-display, and put down, each other. People being as they are, though; this stuff appears with some frequency, on hobby scenes too – including the rail hobby.

I’ve been to slide shows, supposedly about visits to interesting rail venues; where the presenter clearly thought it good, to have a considerable number of his slides showing, instead, goonish extrovert members of the visiting group performing goofy antics. My reaction to this being: “Oh, Lord, I want to see pictures of, and hear about, this particular railway scene – not to have the valuable time for that, wasted by stuff about show-offs doing this kind of cr*p”.
 

ChiefPlanner

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That sounds absolutely terrifying. Like something Harold Lloyd would do.

Used to be fairly common on Rugby days on the South Wales Valleys - drop windows both side and quickly over the top. (that and riding on the rear buffers with a hand on the coupling)

Such stupid jolly japes ended , when a Rugby excursion to Edinburgh had a few nutters trying this out near Weaver Junction , and not of course having OLE in the valleys , one of them at least was killed.

Thankfully , this stupid practice ended thanks to publicity and so on.
 

AJM580

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It used to be obligatory to window hang around the Ely avoiding curve. At the point where the avoiding curve met the main line, the driver would apply full power, there was a fair bit of flailing then. The Sad Story of Kevin and the Diesels on the Bash Mash YouTube channel may shed some light on the subject!
 

LowLevel

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Apparently someone sticking their head out was decapitated at Stoke Tunnel - I think it was a football train though. I've often wondered if the small, roughly window height comparatively clean patch on the Grantham end up side of the tunnel portal was something to do with this incident.
 

PeterC

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Despite enjoying leaning out of a train window as a lad I had far more sense than to do anything as stupid as the person in the photo.

I do recall on a school trip an unpopular lad's cap and jacket being removed and passed to the boys in the next compartment. He was able to change compartments at a station to retrieve them before any more garments followed.
 

Ploughman

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On a tangential note, have not tanks fitted with rotating rows of chains at their front been used as a method of land mine clearance? I have heard of that action being described as flailing.

You would be right with that.
Numerous designs of Flail Tank have been tried and still used now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There was a C4 doc. (I think C4 anyway) about 1997 or so featuring some 37 spotters filmed flailing.
Among them was a PTO from our office who took a while to live it down.
 

Cowley

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There was a C4 doc. (I think C4 anyway) about 1997 or so featuring some 37 spotters filmed flailing.
Among them was a PTO from our office who took a while to live it down.

I think the documentary you're talking about was called 'The Bashers (the other side)'. It's still on YouTube and is well worth a watch, especially the bit where one of them has a rant at Pip Dunn about getting "his machine" repainted and renamed after the magazine.
There's some quite interesting people on it to say the least!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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STUWHU agrees. It is dangerous and could result in your head being chopped off

I know the BTP would really like to come down hard on the barmpots of the enthusiast brigade, but I feel that the punishment that that should be given should not be as severe as the one that you state above, even though there is monarchical precedent going back to the days of Henry VIII for those who offend....:D:D:D
 

Bevan Price

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Despite enjoying leaning out of a train window as a lad I had far more sense than to do anything as stupid as the person in the photo.

I do recall on a school trip an unpopular lad's cap and jacket being removed and passed to the boys in the next compartment. He was able to change compartments at a station to retrieve them before any more garments followed.

In olden days, bad behaviour would have been viewed as damaging the reputation of the school, and if spotted by (or reported to) a teacher, those responsible would probably have experienced a very painful visit to the headmaster.....
 

D1009

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In the last days of steam on Shap, I remember joining a train at Carlisle on a drizzly August day and spending the journey to Preston at or out of an open window in the front coach. Afterwards I was getting strange looks from people, and it wasn't until a while later that I realised I looked like a miner or a chimney sweep! I think the flailing thing probably originated in the 1970s when a new generation of "enthusiast" came on the scene.
 

Stuwhu

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I know the BTP would really like to come down hard on the barmpots of the enthusiast brigade, but I feel that the punishment that that should be given should not be as severe as the one that you state above, even though there is monarchical precedent going back to the days of Henry VIII for those who offend....:D:D:D

Please can you explain what you mean. This doesn't seem relevant to my post
 

cambsy

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I know the bashers, from bashers(the other side), from my bashing days on the North Wales Coast, railtours and Scottish bashes, was on the Tiberius Kirk which featured in the programme, to say they are an interesting bunch is an understatement, and they went too far, could only stand them for short periods of time, drink had a lot to do with it, they drank a hell of a lot, I have flailed a bit in the past but not as extreme as in photo.
 

341o2

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On a tangential note, have not tanks fitted with rotating rows of chains at their front been used as a method of land mine clearance? I have heard of that action being described as flailing.

deleted as TSR beat me to it re flail mowers
 
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Haywain

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Flailing, or arm waving, was certainly about during the demise of the Westerns in the latter part of 1976 but it seemed to become much more extreme during the 1980s. I did indulge in this myself but it was a bit of youthful fun and not generally done in a way that put anyone at risk. These days I am more restrained and discreet!
 

Cowley

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Flailing, or arm waving, was certainly about during the demise of the Westerns in the latter part of 1976 but it seemed to become much more extreme during the 1980s. I did indulge in this myself but it was a bit of youthful fun and not generally done in a way that put anyone at risk. These days I am more restrained and discreet!

Thanks for being honest Haywain :). I shouldn't think you're the only person on the entire forum that did it either.
Do you then remember people doing it behind Westerns in the 70s? I've never seen anyone in a photo doing it earlier than behind 40s in about 1982, and sometimes by then in certain photos it looks like half the train were doing it.
 

Haywain

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Thanks for being honest Haywain :). I shouldn't think you're the only person on the entire forum that did it either.
Do you then remember people doing it behind Westerns in the 70s? I've never seen anyone in a photo doing it earlier than behind 40s in about 1982, and sometimes by then in certain photos it looks like half the train were doing it.
Undoubtedly, and I can see one guilty party from where I sit - as long as I'm looking at the reflection in the window by the side of me. Handsome chap, I think, although he was a lot younger then! :D

I should add that the younger me, who thought it was all harmless fun, would probably be very annoying to me these days. That probably says something about seeing things differently as we get older, although some people seem to be oblivious to such changes.
 
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Cowley

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Undoubtedly, and I can see one guilty party from where I sit - as long as I'm looking at the reflection in the window by the side of me. Handsome chap, I think, although he was a lot younger then! :D

I should add that the younger me, who thought it was all harmless fun, would probably be very annoying to me these days. That probably says something about seeing things differently as we get older, although some people seem to be oblivious to such changes.

I know what you mean. I'm pretty sure I'd have given my fifteen year old self a clip round the ear if I'd seen myself doing some of the things I did back then. It's easy to forget that we were all young once.
 

Calthrop

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I know what you mean. I'm pretty sure I'd have given my fifteen year old self a clip round the ear if I'd seen myself doing some of the things I did back then. It's easy to forget that we were all young once.

It would seem that I was never young. Even in my teens, my thoughts witnessing these kind of carryings-on, were: "what is the matter with these jerks?".
 

Haywain

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It would seem that I was never young. Even in my teens, my thoughts witnessing these kind of carryings-on, were: "what is the matter with these jerks?".

And they would probably have thought the same of you. But I bet you did some things when you were younger that you wouldn't do now.
 

Calthrop

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It would seem that I was never young. Even in my teens, my thoughts witnessing these kind of carryings-on, were: "what is the matter with these jerks?".

And they would probably have thought the same of you. But I bet you did some things when you were younger that you wouldn't do now.

For sure -- re "all of the above". I consider that in the main, teenagers (especially male ones) are largely a waste of space, food, and oxygen -- a condition which people usually grow out of ! Am aware that as a "teen" I was in my rather subdued way, a thorough pain in the arse.
 

MP33

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When myself and friends used to go to Clacton for the day during the school holidays. On the class 309's we used to stand by the drop down windows with our arms slightly out of the windows and when the GE main line used to run alongside the A12, move our arms to make it look like we were propelling the train as it was a canoe.
 
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