Flying Scotsman and her multiple disguises...

[alexl92]

There's obviously a great deal of discussion about what colour/number Flying Scotsman should wear, and the curator of the NRM has written a blog post about the various guises she appeared in throughout her career. Thought it might be of interest for some people:
http://blog.nrm.org.uk/2015/03/11/many-guises-of-flying-scotsman/

Regards

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Funny, I was only thinking about this loco a few days ago.

I think she should be green and 4472, LNER, then she would match my Hornby 00 model.

I was lucky enough to see her a few years ago on the main line at Salisbury Station, she was shunting around the carriages of the special VSOE train, and sped through the station, much to the delight of all the passengers waiting there.

When is she coming back on either display or better still on the main line?

 

[AM9]

Funny, I was only thinking about this loco a few days ago.

I think she should be green and 4472, LNER, then she would match my Hornby 00 model.

I was lucky enough to see her a few years ago on the main line at Salisbury Station, she was shunting around the carriages of the special VSOE train, and sped through the station, much to the delight of all the passengers waiting there.

When is she coming back on either display or better still on the main line?

I remember her during her spell on the Torbay Steam Railway in 1973. Apple green, 4472 and completely outdazzled 4555 the duty prarie tank, (stands back to avoid brickbats from the Swindonophiles).

 

[sprinterguy]

I think she should be green and 4472, LNER, then she would match my Hornby 00 model.

Though, as the article lays out, that livery is inauthentic for the locomotive in its current condition; with double chimney and German-style smoke deflectors, among other things; which is what causes so much of the heated debate on this topic within the preservation world.

Personally, though, despite these foibles I fully agree: It's an iconic livery that makes the locomotive more recognisable to the public at large, and bright apple green certainly looks more attractive than drab BR brunswick!

That's a very interesting article, too: I have a deep held affection for all things LNER and Gresley in particular, so thanks for posting the link.

 

[ThePannier]

I personally think 4472 should wear her most iconic livery, the LNER Apple Green, that most of the general public, whether they be enthusiasts or not; will recognise.

Although as said above, some of her current features aren't what she wore whilst in the livery, so it may end up in another livery.

Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to seeing her out on the mainline again!

 

[sprinterguy]

Although as said above, some of her current features aren't what she wore whilst in the livery, so it may end up in another livery.

It will: BR Brunswick green, and the locos' BR identity as 60103, have been chosen by the NRM as the livery it will return to service in:

http://www.nrm.org.uk/AboutUs/PressOffice/PressReleases/2015/January/flying-scotsman-2015.aspx
"The loco has been changed so often over the past 90 years that it is now practically impossible to present it in a wholly historically accurate appearance. As well as the currently most well-known guises of the apple green 4472 and the BR green 60103, Flying Scotsman has also been numbered 1472, 103, and 502.

The loco will retain the double chimney and smoke deflectors it carried when the Museum acquired it in 2004. This being the case we have decided to present it in its final BR working appearance as far as is reasonably practicable."

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When is she coming back on either display or better still on the main line?

Riley and Sons at Bury still seem happy to predict that they will have the loco ready for service again during 2015.

 

[alexl92]

I personally find the Brunswick Green uninspiring on FS for some reason but I'd be happy to see her in BR Apple Green on BR Express Blue, which she apparently wore too! I'm not all that bothered about whether it's authentic for her current condition to be perfectly honest. Most locos preserved today are in their correct liveries so it doesn't matter if one or two aren't.

 

[Yew]

Its just some paint, there are much more important things. Personally I'd just rotate her through BR Express Blue, Brunswick Green, and LNER green whenever she needed a repaint. maybe with the occasional spell in wartime black

 

[AM9]

Its just some paint, there are much more important things. Personally I'd just rotate her through BR Express Blue, Brunswick Green, and LNER green whenever she needed a repaint. maybe with the occasional spell in wartime black

Now that would be worth seeing, a loco in plain vanilla black, especially if it was not clean and looked like it actually did work.

 

[43167]

I look forward to seeing it in BR Green. I too think it should be alternated.

 

[DarloRich]

As long as it works, runs on the mainline and earns the NRM some money they can paint it pink for all I care! I just want to see it working

Imagine the frothed kettleista wibbling if it appeared in LNER green whilst running with accoutrements that were authentic to British Railways green livery!!!!!

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Now that would be worth seeing, a loco in plain vanilla black, especially if it was not clean and looked like it actually did work.

I saw her in York in May 2011, just before she went to Bury.

She was in her wartime black livery but as far as I recall, one side was numbered 502 and the other was numbered 103. Am I dreaming this, or did it actually happen?

Either way, I thought that she looked quite impressive. From memory, she seemed to look larger than she actually was ... but that may also be because I was looking from ground level rather than platform level.

:?

 

[sprinterguy]

Now that would be worth seeing, a loco in plain vanilla black, especially if it was not clean and looked like it actually did work.

Of course, that was the livery that the NRM initially restored the loco to before the problems with the frames became apparent. See here (not my photo):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/manofyorkshire/5767761009/

And this article contains a small picture of wartime black liveried "Flying Scotsman" and "Mallard" together:
http://www.heritagerailway.co.uk/news/an-a3-and-an-a4-in-black-together

Although to be more accurate, "Mallard" had lost the valances by the time it received wartime black, and didn't have red painted wheels.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Its just some paint, there are much more important things. Personally I'd just rotate her through BR Express Blue, Brunswick Green, and LNER green whenever she needed a repaint. maybe with the occasional spell in wartime black

We haven't seen "Flying Scotsman" in express passenger blue in preservation yet, have we? That would be something to see - I've always been partial to that livery.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

"Of course, that was the livery that the NRM initially restored the loco to before the problems with the frames became apparent. See here (not my photo)"

Yes, that's what she looked like.

She first seen being dragged out of the NRM along with D6700, 57798 "Prince William" & D2861. The whole convoy was later seen going south through York station. I think someone said that Flying Scotman was going to Bury, but where the others were going, I didn't / don't know.

 

[alexl92]

The wartime black looked great with the polished brass. Much prefer her minus smoke deflectors.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

There have been items in rail press and the general media etc in the past few days that Flying Scotsman Steam Loco, may be doing some testing on the main line later this year also a journey between York & K.X or V.V. was mentioned too.

I hope it will come our from it's long refurbishment in a good rail worthy state.

 

[theblackwatch]

There have been items in rail press and the general media etc in the past few days that Flying Scotsman Steam Loco, may be doing some testing on the main line later this year also a journey between York & K.X or V.V. was mentioned too.

I hope it will come our from it's long refurbishment in a good rail worthy state.

I believe the trains between York/King's Cross are pencilled in for February 2016. Would be nice if a Deltic could take part too!

 

[bnm]

I saw her in York in May 2011, just before she went to Bury.

She was in her wartime black livery but as far as I recall, one side was numbered 502 and the other was numbered 103. Am I dreaming this, or did it actually happen?

Either way, I thought that she looked quite impressive. From memory, she seemed to look larger than she actually was ... but that may also be because I was looking from ground level rather than platform level.

:?

That was the last time I saw her up close too.

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bnm/Mobile%20Uploads/rps20150722_103317_zpsrxtmdser.jpg

 

[alexl92]

Did she ever wear BR Apple Green like Tornado? I think that'd suit her quite well.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I believe the trains between York/King's Cross are pencilled in for February 2016. Would be nice if a Deltic could take part too!

I shall keep Feb free then, depending on ticket prices of course.

(I think there may be a steam and Deltic or Deltic only railtour on the K.X. / York run any time now or recently.)

 

[Monty]

Did she ever wear BR Apple Green like Tornado? I think that'd suit her quite well.

Yes she did, her early BR number back then was E103.

 

[melena]

With what its cost, i would rather see it restored it to 1923 'as built' condition and not its withdrawn condition. Maybe another £10million, 10 year rebuild sometime in the future...

 

[EbbwJunction1]

That was the last time I saw her up close too.

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bnm/Mobile%20Uploads/rps20150722_103317_zpsrxtmdser.jpg

That's right, thanks.

 

[Willr2094]

I'm personally glad Flying Scotsman is going to be BR 60103 again, as she looked awful in LNER Apple Green with smoke deflectors and double chimney.

However it will be interesting to see how the general public react to her running on the mainline as 60103. Potentially there is a problem that the public might find it difficult to associate the number 60103 with Flying Scotsman, as throughout her 52 years in preservation, she's been 4472 all the time, apart from her brief previous spell as 60103 in the 90s, when she was running on heritage railways. She hasn't worked on the mainline as 60103 since the end of her commercial East Coast Main Line service days.

In some ways, it's a shame that the NRM haven't tried to be revolutionary and turned her out in postwar LNER Apple Green as 103- as next year's the seventieth anniversary of the refit to A3 configuration.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm personally glad Flying Scotsman is going to be BR 60103 again, as she looked awful in LNER Apple Green with smoke deflectors and double chimney.

However it will be interesting to see how the general public react to her running on the mainline as 60103. Potentially there is a problem that the public might find it difficult to associate the number 60103 with Flying Scotsman, as throughout her 52 years in preservation, she's been 4472 all the time, apart from her brief previous spell as 60103 in the 90s, when she was running on heritage railways. She hasn't worked on the mainline as 60103 since the end of her commercial East Coast Main Line service days.

In some ways, it's a shame that the NRM haven't tried to be revolutionary and turned her out in postwar LNER Apple Green as 103- as next year's the seventieth anniversary of the refit to A3 configuration.

People wont care - the locomotive will have the Flying Scotsman name and smoke coming out of the top - that is the brand. In the real world the numbering is of no interest to anyone but us wibbling nerds!

For instance kids don't run into the railway museum and shout "look dad there is 4468/60022" - it is and always has been Mallard

 

[60163]

Wot, no LoadHaul? Aw.

 

[sprinterguy]

People wont care - the locomotive will have the Flying Scotsman name and smoke coming out of the top - that is the brand. In the real world the numbering is of no interest to anyone but us wibbling nerds!

I think that "Flying Scotsman" is more commonly recognised as a bright green locomotive than a dark green one, though: It is that which is the more pertinent point rather than just the number it carries (so I'm at least partially in agreement with yourself, actually).

 

[alexl92]

Wot, no LoadHaul? Aw.

I have to say, I do agree with the consensus that she's most recognisable in apple green. Do the German-style smoke deflectors have to stay for operational reasons or is it just cheaper/easier to leave them on?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Without them the exhaust from the funnel will drift down and obscure the driver's view.

 

[4-COR 3142]

Without them the exhaust from the funnel will drift down and obscure the driver's view.

I know that the A3's ended up having these deflectors fitted in BR days but in reality how big a problem was drifting smoke? The A1's and the A3 rebuilds managed to last their entire LNER career without them.

The other thing that I don't quite understand is what is so different about the aerodynamics of an A3 from say a V2 - which didn't get deflectors as far as I'm aware at any point - or just about every other UK express steam engine? Why did GWR Castles and Kings not end up looking like a Teutonic kettle too?