FNW Class 101 3car Hybrid formations

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
30 Dec 2009
Messages
461
In the last years of FNW class 101 operations they formed quite a few 3 car hybrid formations, by adding a DMBS from another set.

For example: 101657 gained 51175 from 101658.
101657 new formation then becomes: 51175 + (53211 + 54085)

I was just wondering which part of the unit the guard had to be in, as there is no through access from the added vehicle to the other set due to it being coupled against a cab end.

Am i correct in thinking that when 101657 was in service and the added car 51175 was leading then the guard would ride in the rear DMBS due to the driver being in 51175, and visa versa. Was there lockable sliding doors on the class 101 units to stop passangers using the corridor connectors and transferring between carriages if needs be.

It was this picture i found on flickr that got me thinking: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6949664729/in/photostream/
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

12CSVT

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2010
Messages
2,612
I seem to remember that happening quite regularly in British Rail days, on the Chiltern Line, Great Western line out of Paddington, and the Scottish Region (it may have occured elsewhere as well). The class 121 / 122 bubble cars often paired up with driving trailers 56xxx / 54xxx.

In the late 1980s several Buxton based DMUs were formed of class 108 driving cars and class 104 centre cars, the class 104 cars still in all-over blue, creating mixed livery sets.
 

Robbies

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2009
Messages
1,997
Location
Berkshire
It is also no different to the three car Class 158's that FGW use today, where a driving car from another unit is place with an existing two car class 158 to make a three car train on routes like Portsmouth - Cardiff because of the demand for the service is greater than having just the two car class 158.
 

Liam

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
1,246
Scotrail often run two170's or 170 and 158 together. The guard does his checks in one unit, then at the next station he gets off and into the other unit. The trolley is usually only in one unit. I did once see the trolley left behind at Kirkcaldy station when they tried to move it from one unit to the other. :lol:
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
22,833
Location
Redcar
It is also no different to the three car Class 158's that FGW use today, where a driving car from another unit is place with an existing two car class 158 to make a three car train on routes like Portsmouth - Cardiff because of the demand for the service is greater than having just the two car class 158.

Slightly different in that a guard can walk through a hybrid 158 set but couldn't on a hybrid 101 set (in that formation) or a Pacer+Sprinter set.
 

Robbies

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2009
Messages
1,997
Location
Berkshire
Slightly different in that a guard can walk through a hybrid 158 set but couldn't on a hybrid 101 set (in that formation) or a Pacer+Sprinter set.

True, but the principle of coupling vehicles from other sets in the fleet is the same.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
22,833
Location
Redcar
True, but the principle of coupling vehicles from other sets in the fleet is the same.

No one has denied that, this request was purely to do with the positioning of a guard in hybrid formations when there is not through gangway not if such hybrid formations are practical in other fleets.
 

driver9000

Established Member
Joined
13 Jan 2008
Messages
3,921
The Guard would ride in the rear most brake van. There were lockable doors at the corridor connection if it was required to prevent access across the connection although a hybrid set formed of an extra DMBS wouldn't require a vehicle to be out of use simply because there is no walk through facility.
 

headshot119

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2010
Messages
1,950
Location
Dubai
Guard would have been in the rear van. Most of the first gen DMU had lockable doors between each coach.
 

rick_suffolk

Member
Joined
10 Feb 2010
Messages
62
i seem to recall the additional vehicles were added only for extra power to keep to time, the vehicles were locked out of use?
 
Joined
30 Dec 2009
Messages
461
Yeah i suppose that could be an idea, but if that was the case and the corridor connector door was closed and locked then why would the additional carriage be locked out of use, and you could loose several minutes in a journey if at every station most passengers went to the locked out carriage then you have to wait for them to board further along the train, especially if they were elderley people or not very good on their feet. This is just my opinion, i guess we are no closer to finding out why the additional carriage was added.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
12,236
Surely if you just wanted to keep better time it would be easier to form them up into power-twins?
That way you would get even better acceleration and not have to lug a coachload of air around.
 

theblackwatch

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2006
Messages
10,446
Surely if you just wanted to keep better time it would be easier to form them up into power-twins?
That way you would get even better acceleration and not have to lug a coachload of air around.

Such power twins would have ended up with a reduction in seating and removal of toilet facilities (changing the formation from DMBS+DTSL to DMBS+DMBS rather than to DMBS+DTSL+DMBS). Before you ask, it wasn't possible to make them up using a DMSL - all the surviving ones were already in use!
 

Crimson_Quiff

Member
Joined
2 Jun 2011
Messages
406
Location
Mount Dubious
Super Met-Camm power greeted one of the Saturday-only Manchester Piccadilly-Blackpool North services in August 2001 once. I travelled on it end to end and it produced a pair of the hybrid units. Good run it were! :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top