Football fans "shunted out by train bosses"

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bramling

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I guess we'd better ban concerts and other sports that can attract large crowds such as horse racing, rugby, etc...:rolleyes:
After having been stuck on an HST which filled up at Swindon with race-goers ex Cheltenham, yes absolutely. Fortunately there weren’t that many of them as there’s a limit to how many could physically cram on to the 2-car 150 they’d just come off, but that was still unpleasant enough.
 
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Grecian 1998

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It's a complete non-story really. Engineering works have to be done at some point and have to be planned long in advance. Commuters are the biggest single source of income to the railway, so they have to be done at the weekend. FA Cup games aren't planned long in advance. Someone's got to pick up the short straw.

A decent indicator of the FA's own view on the matter is that the FA Cup Final has been moved to 5.30pm on a Saturday evening for the last few years whoever is playing. The FA Cup Final is the one game which can be shown live at 3pm on a Saturday during the season. Apparently the later kick-off popular with their stakeholders, whoever they are. Given the games can go on to extra time and penalties, taking around 3 hours, good luck getting anywhere up north by train after the game.

If you live a distance from the WCML or ECML then using the train can be challenging anyway. As an Exeter City fan who does travel all over the country by train to watch City, I accept there are certain times where it simply isn't practical to use the train. For instance, it isn't possible to get back to Exeter from Grimsby/Cleethorpes the same day after this weekend's game - and that's a Saturday 3pm kick-off without any engineering works. Plenty of other games would throw up problems if there were any engineering works planned - but they've got to be done at some time or other. Exeter is also better connected than many places a long distance from the WCML or ECML. Higher up the leagues, Bournemouth v Burnley or Blackburn v Swansea would present serious logistical challenges with engineering works at 3pm on a Saturday.

Like it or not, hordes of last-minute leisure travellers (given TV companies only pick games a certain number of weeks aren't a huge source of income to the railway and it isn't going to bend over backwards to accommodate them. The vast majority of away fans drive or use coaches anyway. I see plenty of away fans on my journeys going to different games, but nothing like the numbers if the train was the majority option.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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Well it’s the same thing, as the FA control the rights to the Premier League and the FA Cup.

Clubs are reluctant to have games televised (in this country) at 1500 Saturday.
I'm pretty sure the premier league and the FA are very different entities and have nothing to do with each other. One is a world leading provider of sport. The other a bit of a joke. The FA do not control anything to do with the premier league
 

DarloRich

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I'm pretty sure the premier league and the FA are very different entities and have nothing to do with each other. One is a world leading provider of sport. The other a bit of a joke. The FA do not control anything to do with the premier league
I think you might want to check that. The FA don't run the premier league day to day but they are a shareholder in the FA Premier league corporation and have some say in its corporate structure. They also assure the competition rules.
 

yorksrob

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Perhaps the football industry should buy up a batch of scrap Merseytravel-interior Pacers and start their own open-access operation to transport their livestock around?!
Not actually bad idea (speaking as someone who has regularly gone to watch the football by pacer for several years).

A dedicated fleet for foot-ex's which doesn't require turn around facilities could be ideal.
 

Aictos

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My view is that the engineering works have been planned months if not years ahead and both the FA and the TV companies know this as well as the dates of any engineering works.

So if anyone is at fault here, it’s not the railway but that of the FA and the TV companies who could and should rearrange the fixtures or supply alternative transportation so fans can get home.

Organising a FA game without taking into account any possible disruption is both selfish and irresponsible of those responsible for hosting the event.
 

AM9

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... Commuters are the biggest single source of income to the railway, ...
That's not true. Commuters, (and other groups that demand exceptional capacity) are the main reasons that 'the railway' needs a public subsidy. It has been explained in a number of threads here but it is off-topic for this thread so pointing out the misconception is sufficient.
 

Ferret

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My view is that the engineering works have been planned months if not years ahead and both the FA and the TV companies know this as well as the dates of any engineering works.

So if anyone is at fault here, it’s not the railway but that of the FA and the TV companies who could and should rearrange the fixtures or supply alternative transportation so fans can get home.

Organising a FA game without taking into account any possible disruption is both selfish and irresponsible of those responsible for hosting the event.
Where is the ‘like’ button? Absolutely spot on. Easier for a crap journalist to take a cheap shot at the rail industry though.
 

AM9

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Can we remember this thread next time we get the "anti car" brigade telling us we should be using public transport!
Why, it's irrelevant. The railway can't be run without maintenance so if football fans don't like it they have 2 choices. They represent a small proportion of the total travelling public, and a fairly random commitment to rail travel. Other inevitable controls on fossil burning travel will guide their expectations down greener channels in the not too distant future, especially for non-essential travel.
 

2L70

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Irrelevant story but...

They can go by coach.
We don’t like going by coach.
Why?
Because you can’t drink on there.
 

underbank

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Why, it's irrelevant. The railway can't be run without maintenance so if football fans don't like it they have 2 choices. They represent a small proportion of the total travelling public, and a fairly random commitment to rail travel. Other inevitable controls on fossil burning travel will guide their expectations down greener channels in the not too distant future, especially for non-essential travel.
So when cars are banned (as some would like), it's going to mean the end to sporting events, pop concerts, festivals, etc outside London and a couple of other big cities with good public transport?

As for "non essential" travel, I'm pretty sure a lot of commuting is actually non essential if people/firms either embraced home working or worked more locally.

Or alternatively, we could make public transport fit for purpose for the 21st century with the capacity and flexibility to take people where they want to go when they want to go there?
 

londonbridge

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For clarity, my intention wasn’t to start a debate on the behaviour of football fans on trains, it was more to highlight how journalists and others are quick to blame the industry for not providing trains due to engineering works when they don’t realise or understand that these works have to be done in order to provide a service in the future, and as others have said, take months or even years of planning and can’t just be abandoned or delayed at two weeks notice because broadcasters decide to televise an event at a specific time. As I said, if the match was still being played at 3.00pm fans would still face a longer journey in getting home but we can’t blame the tv for making the problem worse, no, it has to be the fault of the railways. To use an old cliche there is never a good time to do engineering work and some travellers are always going to be inconvenienced, but contrary to popular belief network rail and the tocs don’t set out to deliberately p*ss off as many people as possible when organising the work.
 

LancasterRed

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FWIW, there was a situation last wherein a couple thousand Preston fans were trapped at Mill Hill station because Northern failed to strengthen their services accordingly after Blackburn away and the police stepped in to get an ex-York service to stop and get everyone out of the impeding flooding and onto a warm train home.

I doubt Northern will make the mistake of refusing to strengthen on derby day again.
 

DarloRich

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it was more to highlight how journalists and others are quick to blame the industry for not providing trains due to engineering works when they don’t realise or understand that these works have to be done in order to provide a service in the future,
the journos know exactly what goes on. This is simply and easy column for Phil Space on an otherwise quiet news day. I suspect they have stories like this stored away to dust off and refresh as needed.

my intention wasn’t to start a debate on the behaviour of football fans on trains,
You will get one. Football fans are hated by the RUK masses! That and daring ( DARING!) to take a drink

Irrelevant story but...

They can go by coach.
We don’t like going by coach.
Why?
Because you can’t drink on there.
is that right? Funny because I have been to the match on many coaches where drinking was encouraged.

If it is a supporters club coach then drinking isnt allowed. If it is Dave from down the Feathers putting the bus on you can drink as much as you like.
 

Mag_seven

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I don't get this outrage about evening kick-off times - how do fans get back home after midweek evening fixtures? For example how are Cardiff fans expected to get back from Carlisle tonight? Are there any outraged newspaper columnists writing about that claiming that the rail industry should be providing train services throughout the night from Carlisle to Cardiff?
 

Meerkat

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If it is a supporters club coach then drinking isnt allowed. If it is Dave from down the Feathers putting the bus on you can drink as much as you like.
Pretty sure Dave from down the feathers is breaking the law.
AIUI if you hire a coach to go to football it legally has to be dry. Get caught drinking on it and the law will send you home or hold you somewhere during the game.
https://www.olliers.com/football-offences/football-alcohol-offences/

The act creates a number of offences in connection with alcohol being transported to and from football matches. Anyone who has alcohol in their possession whilst travelling on a coach or train that is principally being used to take people to or from a match is guilty of an offence. There are provisions relating to the operators and also those who hire vehicles. It is also an offence to be drunk on such a vehicle whether or not the person is in possession of alcohol.

These provisions also apply to minibuses in certain circumstances.
 

Bobdogs

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If I remember correctly, the TV company insisted that the FA cup final was moved to a 5.30 kick off as they reckoned viewing figures would be greater so that they could charge more for the adverts. Also, the premise was that with the match finishing around 7.30 viewers would then be captured for the rest of the evening. The FA and the premier league have sold out to television and it is they who dictate fixtures without any consideration for the fans. Premier league teams and some from the lower leagues could easily afford to provide free coach travel for their fans. Just knock a grand a week off their players wages. They'll just have to survive on £99,000!
 

Robertj21a

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the journos know exactly what goes on. This is simply and easy column for Phil Space on an otherwise quiet news day. I suspect they have stories like this stored away to dust off and refresh as needed.



You will get one. Football fans are hated by the RUK masses! That and daring ( DARING!) to take a drink



is that right? Funny because I have been to the match on many coaches where drinking was encouraged.

If it is a supporters club coach then drinking isnt allowed. If it is Dave from down the Feathers putting the bus on you can drink as much as you like.
The coach company permitting alcohol on board a football coach is surely in danger of losing their licence ?
 

2L70

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is that right? Funny because I have been to the match on many coaches where drinking was encouraged.

If it is a supporters club coach then drinking isnt allowed. If it is Dave from down the Feathers putting the bus on you can drink as much as you like.
I doubt someone from the local pub would take the Financial risk of running a coach from somewhere in the south to Hull on Saturday PM? May as well stop over.
 

DarloRich

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I doubt someone from the local pub would take the Financial risk of running a coach from somewhere in the south to Hull on Saturday PM? May as well stop over.
ok. i know differently.

The coach company permitting alcohol on board a football coach is surely in danger of losing their licence ?
ok. i will let them know that next time.

Pretty sure Dave from down the feathers is breaking the law.
AIUI if you hire a coach to go to football it legally has to be dry. Get caught drinking on it and the law will send you home or hold you somewhere during the game.
https://www.olliers.com/football-offences/football-alcohol-offences/
ok. i will let Dave know.

This kind of thing happens every weekend. The police aren't bothered unless you cause trouble or they have specific intelligence that a fight is planned or people of interest are travelling or that someone is in breach of an order. I have been on many coaches while taking drink and never had a problem. I have had the police take us to a pub to drink!

These coaches tend to be Dodgy Dave's discount travel not Wallace Arnold so you know what you are getting!
 

sprunt

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Even if one overlooks any antisocial behaviour, it’s still a thorough nuisance to the railway and its regular customers having a sudden tidal wave of people all turn up at the same moment wanting to make a similar journey.
In terms of weekend long distance travel, I suspect a majority of the railway's regular customers are
football fans travelling to matches. Who else is so reliably going on the trains every two weeks at the weekend?

Perhaps the football industry should buy up a batch of scrap Merseytravel-interior Pacers and start their own open-access operation to transport their livestock around?!
That's helpful.

My view is that the engineering works have been planned months if not years ahead and both the FA and the TV companies know this as well as the dates of any engineering works.
I guarantee that when the works were planned, the information would have been available that the weekend in question would be the fourth round of the FA Cup, as it has been for as long as I can remember. If the railways had wanted to time the disruption to avoid a time when a large number of people would be looking to arrange travel at short notice (three weeks in advance at the most, as that is when the previous round of the tournament takes place) the information was available for them to do so.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Even if there wasn't engineering work the last connection back from Hull to London on a Saturday leaves Hull at 1925 so the Chelsea fans would have to leave the stadium with at least 15 minutes to go!
 
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