Football

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Conference Premiership

Braintree 2....Hyde 2

Hyde started their first-ever match in the Conference Premiership quite well and were two goals up at half-time, but they have to learn to pace themselves better at this higher level. They were down to 10 men early in the second half, but it was unfortunate that they conceeded a 90th minute equaliser.

Still, a point away from home was a creditable first start. There are another full set of fixtures early next week, Tuesday I think.

 

[SS4]

Charity Community Shield about to kick off on Manchester TV "I"TV (can we really call ITV independent when they're so biased?)

Best thing about this game is the venue
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The respect campaign has been wholly ignored in favour of ref swamping :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The respect campaign has been wholly ignored in favour of ref swamping :roll:

The way to solve this is to immediately make a new addition to the rules of the game, then to issue a written warning to all football clubs stating that the rules of the game have been amended to show that deliberate intimidation of a referee will be an immediate red-card offence.

This matter has now gone on for far too long and professional footballers know the rules of the game as they are written and if they choose to continue to adopt such intimidation, be it a single player or as is usually the case, a group of three or four players, the fact will be that their team will play the remainder of the game with a reduced number of players.

Repeat offenders should then be banned for six matches following every such rule infringement.

.

 

[SS4]

The way to solve this is to immediately make a new addition to the rules of the game, then to issue a written warning to all football clubs stating that the rules of the game have been amended to show that deliberate intimidation of a referee will be an immediate red-card offence.

This matter has now gone on for far too long and professional footballers know the rules of the game as they are written and if they choose to continue to adopt such intimidation, be it a single player or as is usually the case, a group of three or four players, the fact will be that their team will play the remainder of the game with a reduced number of players.

Repeat offenders should then be banned for six matches following every such rule infringement.

.

I would go one step further and add that the club is docked three points for each three players who are sent off under this rule.

Voluntary agreements have been shown to not work IMO, it's time to use force. I'd bring in technology to make the refs more accountable though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Repeat offenders would be banned for three games for the first offence and then +2 each time the rule is infringed.

As for the rules of the game I'd make offside simple like it was up until a few years ago

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

League Cup...Round 1

Blackpool 1...Morecambe 2

Did not envisage that particular result, considering Blackpool had the home advantage.

 

[Johnuk123]

The way to solve this is to immediately make a new addition to the rules of the game, then to issue a written warning to all football clubs stating that the rules of the game have been amended to show that deliberate intimidation of a referee will be an immediate red-card offence.

This matter has now gone on for far too long and professional footballers know the rules of the game as they are written and if they choose to continue to adopt such intimidation, be it a single player or as is usually the case, a group of three or four players, the fact will be that their team will play the remainder of the game with a reduced number of players.

Repeat offenders should then be banned for six matches following every such rule infringement.

.

I agree with all that but you know it won't happen because Man U. in particular would be finishing most games with about 5 players.

Although they aren't the only offenders they're certainly one of the worst with a manager who is legendary for his dislike of authority.

 

[David]

There is 1 sure and certain way to get clubs to control their players - via their bank accounts.

IE. Fine the club involved a percentage of their average match day income* (averaged over the previous 5 years). Once they reach a trigger level, such as 3 offences in a season, then TV or prize money could be withheld. In the EPL, each club is awarded with something like £800,000 per place achieved at the end of the season (so 20th gets £800,000 while finishing 1st will get £16m). I realise it is small fry compared to the income of the richest clubs in the league, but if clubs break the rules often enough, they will soon notice a difference in the bank account.

Income includes everything, gate reciepts, catering, program sales, etc.

 

[SS4]

I agree with all that but you know it won't happen because Man U. in particular would be finishing most games with about 5 players.

Although they aren't the only offenders they're certainly one of the worst with a manager who is legendary for his dislike of authority.

The minimum is 7 after which a game is abandoned - this actually happened a few years back in 2002 and was dubbed the battle of bramall lane. The FA decided to award the three points to West Brom in that case but the law would need changing to either force a forfeit or the game continues to 90 minutes regardless of players on the pitch.

The problem is more than the likes of Man U and teams like them near the top will fight tooth and nail to prevent it as they appear to derive the most benefit from the current system (whether it's true or not is impossible to determine because stats aren't kept on favourable ref decisions). I wouldn't put holding the FA/PL to ransom beyond them either.

There is 1 sure and certain way to get clubs to control their players - via their bank accounts.

IE. Fine the club involved a percentage of their average match day income* (averaged over the previous 5 years). Once they reach a trigger level, such as 3 offences in a season, then TV or prize money could be withheld. In the EPL, each club is awarded with something like £800,000 per place achieved at the end of the season (so 20th gets £800,000 while finishing 1st will get £16m). I realise it is small fry compared to the income of the richest clubs in the league, but if clubs break the rules often enough, they will soon notice a difference in the bank account.

Income includes everything, gate receipts, catering, program sales, etc.

That would only seek to divide clubs based on economic might. As you said yourself it's small fry for the richest clubs and the poorest clubs will get off lighter possibly leading to an increase from the poorer clubs in the league. I would suspect the richer clubs would better hide their income anyway.
IMO it's better to have the same punishment for all clubs to keep it fair and a points/ban system would be the same for all clubs, the only way the richer clubs would benefit is in squad depth like they already do.

 

[David]

That would only seek to divide clubs based on economic might. As you said yourself it's small fry for the richest clubs and the poorest clubs will get off lighter possibly leading to an increase from the poorer clubs in the league. I would suspect the richer clubs would better hide their income anyway.
IMO it's better to have the same punishment for all clubs to keep it fair and a points/ban system would be the same for all clubs, the only way the richer clubs would benefit is in squad depth like they already do.

That's why I suggested a fine based on a percentage of a clubs income. It keeps the punishment fare for all clubs, as they are treated equally, instead of the flat rate fine for some offences.*

With the financial fair play rules coming in (already in force for clubs below the EPL), clubs have to disclose all income and expenditure. This is doubly true for ny clubs that are listed on a stock exchange, Manchester United for example.

* 1 offence that I can think of is 'Failing to control your players' (6 or more players getting booked or sent off in a match) which is an automatic £20,000 fine from the FA. That's a huge outlay for lower league clubs where as for Premiership teams, it's a drop in the ocean.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With the financial fair play rules coming in (already in force for clubs below the EPL), clubs have to disclose all income and expenditure. This is doubly true for ny clubs that are listed on a stock exchange, Manchester United for example.

Have you any view on the idea that I had for not only for making the intimidation of a match referee an immediate red card offence for ALL players involved, plus whatever is deemed a punishment in terms on match suspension for this, followed by the ruling to make subsequent strictures a six-match ban. Whilst other financial strictures can well be applied by the club itself, it is the players with a very poor understanding of how their behaviour on the pitch can affect their team who need to be taught a salutary lesson. (Why do I always think of Joey Barton?.)

Those clubs in either the Europa League, or more importantly the Champions League, will most certainly miss key players with a propensity for referee intimidation which subsequently could them to not playing to their potential and subsequently losing financially from the rewards of onward progression in such competitions, which can be quite financially substantial.

 

[Oswyntail]

Splendid ideas, but, as usual, the real problem is surely non-enforcement of current regulations. IIRC, dissent is a bookable offence, and referee hounding is simply mass dissent. How many times, though, does a referee simply retreat and wave players away? He already has the power to book anyone involved, and book them again if they complain (and then, presumably, book them again if they decide to appeal :roll. Forfeiting the match as the ultimate sanction
For any sort of control to be imposed, the authorities would need the support of:-

• Club managers
• Fans
• The press
• And only then, the players

And most of those are so one-eyed, that they would only support it if it applied to the opposition.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For any sort of control to be imposed, the authorities would need the support of:-

• Club managers
• Fans
• The press
• And only then, the players

And most of those are so one-eyed, that they would only support it if it applied to the opposition.

The rules of the game are drawn up by the authorities and it is up to those participating in the sport to abide by them. Whether or not those sections that you have named (especially the press (or any media)) like them is immaterial.

Rather like the laws of the land. Until these are repealed, they remain in effect and the populace at large has to abide by them or to face the consequences.

 

[Oswyntail]

The rules of the game are drawn up by the authorities and it is up to those participating in the sport to abide by them. Whether or not those sections that you have named (especially the press (or any media)) like them is immaterial.

Rather like the laws of the land. Until these are repealed, they remain in effect and the populace at large has to abide by them or to face the consequences.

Paul,
I admire your faith in the proper way of things. However, as we saw all too frequently last season, once any of those groups decided that an official had made a wrong decision about a red card, the authorities caved in and revoked it.
I am a hardened cynic about "the beautiful game", as you know, but I firmly believe that each of those groups needs to change. I am appalled by the tribalistic hatred that can be spewed forth in the name of "fandom", the distortion of common morality that passes for "mind games" among managers, and the gleeful stirring up of trouble by the press. If all those could accept the authority of the officials, and back it up, the players would soon learn. Till then, they have no incentive.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If all those could accept the authority of the officials, and back it up, the players would soon learn. Till then, they have no incentive.

This, unfortunately, appears to be the status quo. What is needed are football bodies in charge of the game to suddenly develop a backbone, nerves of steel and the strength of mind to enforce the rules of the game without regard to external factors. Only then will those that you have named begin to learn that external pressures upon the ruling body of football in any of the British associations will have no effect whatsoever.

 

[Oswyntail]

This, unfortunately, appears to be the status quo. What is needed are football bodies in charge of the game to suddenly develop a backbone, nerves of steel and the strength of mind to enforce the rules of the game without regard to external factors. Only then will those that you have named begin to learn that external pressures upon the ruling body of football in any of the British associations will have no effect whatsoever.

Quite.
Out of interest, what is the background of the people in charge of the FA? I find the whole club set-up amusing, with hard-nosed businessmen suddenly becoming daft when they buy a club - are these same businessmen involved? Former players (which can be a recipe for disaster)? Managers? Coaches? Are there good administrators? Looking from a fair distance, it looks like an organisation firmly up-to-date - except that the date in question is the 1950s.

 

[DarloRich]

Quite.
Out of interest, what is the background of the people in charge of the FA? I find the whole club set-up amusing, with hard-nosed businessmen suddenly becoming daft when they buy a club - are these same businessmen involved? Former players (which can be a recipe for disaster)? Managers? Coaches? Are there good administrators? Looking from a fair distance, it looks like an organisation firmly up-to-date - except that the date in question is the 1950s.

my thoughts on the FA border on the murderous and are almost certainly libelous so i shall not air them here other than to say the 1950's is a bit modern for them
That is before i even consider their so called "fit & Proper person test"

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My thoughts on the FA border on the murderous and are almost certainly libelous so i shall not air them here other than to say the 1950's is a bit modern for them
That is before i even consider their so called "fit & Proper person test"

I can most certainly understand your particular point of view as the matter of Darlington and the FA has led to great acrimony.

On a personal note, how do you see matters at Darlington progressing this season ?

 

[DarloRich]

Paul - i am still writing a response to you!

As for the prospects for the season i have to be honest and say i have no idea! I never expected to see my team at this level.

That said we have played several friendlies against fellow northern league teams and played well winning them all. (We lost to Darlington RA but played a trialist team)

The simple truth is, i believe, that we must be promoted. It will not be easy as there are several sides who are bankrolled and have done well for years without seeking promotion.

For the club to survive we must maintain the momentum of our climb back up the leagues. That means winning this league at the first time of asking.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

League Cup..Round 1

Oldham Athletic 2..Sheffield Wednesday 4

This result, in addition to providing welcome news to Yorkshire Bear, means that my team, Oldham Athletic, are now out of one competition that will be one less distraction and will free them up for the coming season's customary fight against relegation to League 2....:roll:

 

[Oswyntail]

I see from today's Times that the FA has already said it will not be sending even a Ladies' Team GB to the next Olympics in Rio. They recognise the games are the pinnacle of the female sport, but ....blah, blah, blah all the usual guff about independence. Which being interpreted means they have their own vested interests and can't be bothered getting off their backsides to work out a sensible way forward despite it being a couple of years before qualification starts.
Of course, they (along with their Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish counterparts) have made such a success of things (and won so many tournaments) that their independence is well worth preserving.
[Sudden thought: how would they cope if all lottery funding for football were to be cut off from the home associations because of this ridiculous stance?]

 

[YorkshireBear]

League Cup..Round 1

Oldham Athletic 2..Sheffield Wednesday 4

This result, in addition to providing welcome news to Yorkshire Bear, means that my team, Oldham Athletic, are now out of one competition that will be one less distraction and will free them up for the coming season's customary fight against relegation to League 2....:roll:

You gave us a run for our money though paul, i wasn't comfortable till our 4th went in. Even then i was twitchy!
You seemed to play better than last season i hope it continues!

 

[richw]

League cup tonight, plymouth argyle 3-0 Pompey. Argyle held a collection and fund raising for the Pompey players and staff. I don't think there could of been a more appropriate team for Pompey to play in their first game of the season, following argyles plight last season. Pompey only named 3 subs, and their oldest outfield player was 18 in the second half. Goal keeper was 23. Their 35 year old coach played but got injured very early on, going off and leaving the oldest player aged 18.
I imagine unless something drastic happens Pompey are going for another relegation, with a lot of goals against them. Their players looked out of depth but credit to them for giving their best.

 

[David]

Holy crap! Derby County 5 - 5 Scunthorpe Utd (6-7 on penalties) hock: Goals from Connor Jennings and Bobby Grant in the 95th and 97th minutes take the game into extra time!

Any, getting back to the previous post, Portsmouth have been badly hampered by the fact they had to get rid of all their previous senior players as they were on very high wages. Until they all went, Michael Appleton could not recruit any new players. He reportedly has a £1.5m wage budget for the season, which works out at ~£32,600 a week (assuming until July 1st 2013). That's roughly comparable to Scunthorpe Utd's wage budget (which is 1 of the smallest in the league).

Now all the previous senior players have left the club, Michael Appleton can now try to recruit the 20 players he is allowed to sign. The trouble is, most of the players available have already signed for other clubs, with the rest not upto league 1 standard. Another problem is that players can (and will) be reluctant to sign for a club that does have big financial problems.

 

[junglejames]

I see from today's Times that the FA has already said it will not be sending even a Ladies' Team GB to the next Olympics in Rio. They recognise the games are the pinnacle of the female sport, but ....blah, blah, blah all the usual guff about independence. Which being interpreted means they have their own vested interests and can't be bothered getting off their backsides to work out a sensible way forward despite it being a couple of years before qualification starts.
Of course, they (along with their Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish counterparts) have made such a success of things (and won so many tournaments) that their independence is well worth preserving.
[Sudden thought: how would they cope if all lottery funding for football were to be cut off from the home associations because of this ridiculous stance?]

Its every FA. Not just one. Its also down to FIFA/ UEFA.
For GB to compete at Rio, they would need to qualify as GB in major events. For women thats the 2015 world cup. This would mean the loss of the independant countries. This is unlikely to happen.
For men they would have to qualify as GB in the U21 Euros. Again, this would mean the end of England, Scotland etc etc. so is unlikely to happen.

For me, I think we should be able to Qualify as England (as they are the most likely to qualify), but play in the Olympics as GB.
Ie if England finish well enough to qualify for the Olympics, then GB get to play in the Olympics. This to me is the best of both worlds, but FIFA would never ever agree to this. Mainly because FIFA/ Sepp Blatter hate England massively.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

League Cup...First Round

Northampton Town 2...Cardiff City 1


A rather surprising result from last night, keeping up the cup tradition of early round "giantkilling".

 

[Clip]

Fabrice Muamba retires
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19265338

 

[valenta]

Fabrice Muamba retires
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19265338

Very sad news, but clearly the safest option.

 

[SS4]

For me, I think we should be able to Qualify as England (as they are the most likely to qualify), but play in the Olympics as GB.

According to our commentators it happens almost every tournament when Holland qualify on behalf of the Netherlands.
Did anyone watch Canada vs USA in the women's semi-final? That was one of the best games I've seen.

Ie if England finish well enough to qualify for the Olympics, then GB get to play in the Olympics. This to me is the best of both worlds, but FIFA would never ever agree to this. Mainly because FIFA/ Sepp Blatter hate England massively.

Oh come on, that line is wearing desperately thin. It's a spurious claim made up by the tabloid press to sell papers and maintain their policy of blaming everyone else but themselves for raising unrealistic expectations (like a divine right to win ALL the tournaments) and the players who don't care enough when they pull on the national jersey. Better for Team GB to not play in the Olympics than to go half-hearted and be "injured" like Bale.

Please prove how Blatter personally despises England.

• Is it because the 2018 WC went to Russia? (Against a England bid sans flaws :roll: )
• Is it because Panorama decided to reach a conclusion that FIFA was corrupt (by entrapment and then misleading the public into thinking all of them were corrupt - it's a common theme on that show - make up a conclusion and tweak the evidence to get it)
• Is it because goal line technology wasn't introduced in time for the 2006 WC against Germany (forgetting the 2012 WC game against Ukraine! It's not like they have it in other countries either)
• Or is it (like feminism) where "equality" means "preferential treatment"?
• Of course they did change the rules on subs in friendlies because of Sven (because 11-12 subs per game isn't taking the ****)

To prove Blatter and FIFA hate England you'd need to find a policy which deliberately targeted England and no other country, where England were worse off because of a FIFA regulation or lastly policies which deliberately benefit another country.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Holy crap! Derby County 5 - 5 Scunthorpe Utd (6-7 on penalties)

I see the next hurdle for Scunthorpe United to overcome in this competition will be Norwich City.

 

[telstarbox]

As widely predicted, Arsenal have agreed a fee of £23 million for Robin van Persie to move to Manchester United.