Football

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's much interest in the final day of the Championship today;

Sheffield Wednesday, Derby and Rotherham all able to be relegated from the Championship, with Derby and Wednesday playing each other today. Rotherham must beat Cardiff to survive. I'm hoping Rotherham can stay up but I don't think it is very likely.

In league two, I'm hoping Morecambe can win their 'derby' against Bradford, with Bolton dropping points to allow Morecambe to be promoted automatically.

It is noticeable that the end of season matches always seem to throw up "crunch" fixtures.

I second what you say about Morecambe.

Looks like the Super Duper league has gone very badly wrong. The clubs still need to be punished for their treachery. Maybe give City and Chelsea a slight tariff reduction for remorse. Only a 10 division demotion for them

Interesting to note that the only three of the twelve clubs who have shown no apologies for their involvement in the "Super League" debacle, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus now look to face sanctions by UEFA for their stance. Since UEFA have already spoken of their strictures on the other nine clubs who withdrew from the debacle, it will be quite interesting to see if something a tad more that the proverbial "slap on the wrist" will be forthcoming.

 

[Mike99]

I meant to post last week but I noticed due to the 2020/2021 season being so chaotic that in the National League, Sutton United played Barnet on the 27th April and the return league fixture is on the last day Saturday 29th May, Barnet v Sutton United.
Also in the premiership Everton v Aston Villa last Saturday 1st May at Goodison and the Aston Villa v Everton reverse fixture this Thursday 13th May just twelve days later
I can't recall/noticed the first part of a league fixture as in these cases so late in a season before.
I know, and went to a few Christmas Games years back that fixtures were reversed, sometimes by just 1 day

 

[Loppylugs]

Hebburn are in this season's quarter-finals, so you may get to see them again soon.

Nope, gone out.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have just took a telephone call from a friend in London who tells me that it appears that Juventus have been told that if they continue to still refuse to withdraw their support for the now-aborted European Super League, their place in Serie A could be in doubt for next season.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Well, I’ve never been a bigger fan of Leicester!

 

[Jimini]

Sad Fulham fan here — been on the cards for months, but it still hurts when the fat lady sings..

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well, I’ve never been a bigger fan of Leicester!

Did you see the team that Manchester United turned out, which was not surprising squad-rotation wise, with four matches in a short period of time including a cup final European match.

Sad Fulham fan here — been on the cards for months, but it still hurts when the fat lady sings..

Burnley are the last team you would want to meet in such a match as this, which finally saw them safe mathematics-wise from relegation.

 

[Typhoon]

I meant to post last week but I noticed due to the 2020/2021 season being so chaotic that in the National League, Sutton United played Barnet on the 27th April and the return league fixture is on the last day Saturday 29th May, Barnet v Sutton United.
Also in the premiership Everton v Aston Villa last Saturday 1st May at Goodison and the Aston Villa v Everton reverse fixture this Thursday 13th May just twelve days later
I can't recall/noticed the first part of a league fixture as in these cases so late in a season before.
I know, and went to a few Christmas Games years back that fixtures were reversed, sometimes by just 1 day

Also National League, Bromley have 3 games left of the season. two against Notts County - on 15th May and 29th May. The issues with the National League have come about because Macclesfield Town folded and Dover furloughed its staff so that left two teams without weekend fixtures and the league has tried to match them up with outstanding matches.

I understood the idea was to have teams playing a fairly local rival at Christmas to ensure the 'away' supporters couldn't or weren't in a fit state to travel far on Boxing Day and the Saturday after Christmas which were when the two Christmas fixtures took place (also so players could see their kids for part of Christmas Day). Now they are spread out because of TV, of course, and the likes of Sky want you watching at home.
There used to be an algorithm which worked out the fixtures so each team played alternately home and away. except once a season you had two home games in a row and once two away games and you would play the teams in the same order in the first and second half of the season, with the exception of the two Christmas games. Now they give it to the computer and everybody moans!

 

[roversfan2001]

Now they give it to the computer and everybody moans!

I remember the other year when everyone kicked off because the EFL came out and said they deliberately schedule long trips on midweeks to ensure local games would always be a weekend. I didn't get the fuss about it personally, I'd rather play Swansea away on a Tuesday and Preston away on a Saturday than the other way round. There's always gonna be winners and losers when the fixtures come out - Sky getting their grubby hands involved just stirs the pot more.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Also National League, Bromley have 3 games left of the season. two against Notts County - on 15th May and 29th May. The issues with the National League have come about because Macclesfield Town folded and Dover furloughed its staff so that left two teams without weekend fixtures and the league has tried to match them up with outstanding matches.

The position at the top of the National League, with three games to play, is extremely close:-

Sutton United ..... P39 78 points Goal difference 32

Torquay United ... P39 77 points Goal difference 29

 

[Typhoon]

I remember the other year when everyone kicked off because the EFL came out and said they deliberately schedule long trips on midweeks to ensure local games would always be a weekend. I didn't get the fuss about it personally, I'd rather play Swansea away on a Tuesday and Preston away on a Saturday than the other way round. There's always gonna be winners and losers when the fixtures come out - Sky getting their grubby hands involved just stirs the pot more.

The difference was that the algorithm was transparent. Teams were numbered 1 to, say, 22. If you were team 1 you played team 22 at home first game say, team 21 away second game, team 20 home third game, etc. The fixtures secretary would just shrug their shoulders, that's your number. those are the fixtures. Through trying to accommodate the sort of strategy that you described they have made it harder to follow so easier to criticise. I'm not advocating the algorithm, just trying to explain how it was used.

The position at the top of the National League, with three games to play, is extremely close:-

Sutton United ..... P39 78 points Goal difference 32

Torquay United ... P39 77 points Goal difference 29

Not certain which I would want. Sutton means another London club!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Well, I’ve never been a bigger fan of Leicester!

On the one evening I find myself in the Leicester area!

 

[SteveM70]

I understood the idea was to have teams playing a fairly local rival at Christmas to ensure the 'away' supporters couldn't or weren't in a fit state to travel far on Boxing Day and the Saturday after Christmas which were when the two Christmas fixtures took place (also so players could see their kids for part of Christmas Day). Now they are spread out because of TV, of course, and the likes of Sky want you watching at home.
There used to be an algorithm which worked out the fixtures so each team played alternately home and away. except once a season you had two home games in a row and once two away games and you would play the teams in the same order in the first and second half of the season, with the exception of the two Christmas games. Now they give it to the computer and everybody moans!

The national league always pairs clubs with “near neighbours” and they then play home and away on Boxing Day and New Year’s Day. There were obvious exceptions because of potential for crowd trouble - for a long while the police wouldn’t allow Wrexham and Chester to play each other over a bank holiday. The only problem with this was how to deal with the outlying clubs - for years Gateshead were miles from their nearest neighbour so someone got the short straw and a trip to ice station zebra over the festive period

The difference was that the algorithm was transparent. Teams were numbered 1 to, say, 22. If you were team 1 you played team 22 at home first game say, team 21 away second game, team 20 home third game, etc. The fixtures secretary would just shrug their shoulders, that's your number. those are the fixtures. Through trying to accommodate the sort of strategy that you described they have made it harder to follow so easier to criticise. I'm not advocating the algorithm, just trying to explain how it was used.

Thats never been the case, because a lot of fixture planning is constrained by the police and licensing authorities, and there’s a knock-on effect down the leagues. Liverpool and Everton can’t play at home on the same day etc etc. I remember reading once that West Ham being at home had a knock-on impact on Leyton Orient, Ipswich and Colchester.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sad Fulham fan here — been on the cards for months, but it still hurts when the fat lady sings..

For a long time I thought Newcastle were down. Quite surprised by their recent run of form.

Hope they stick with Scott Parker and don’t go for the usual knee-jerk manager change…

 

[Butts]

For a long time I thought Newcastle were down. Quite surprised by their recent run of form.

Hope they stick with Scott Parker and don’t go for the usual knee-jerk manager change…

It worked for Norwich stuck with Manager and coming straight back up.

 

[Typhoon]

Thats never been the case, because a lot of fixture planning is constrained by the police and licensing authorities, and there’s a knock-on effect down the leagues. Liverpool and Everton can’t play at home on the same day etc etc. I remember reading once that West Ham being at home had a knock-on impact on Leyton Orient, Ipswich and Colchester.

The system I was referring to is apparantly called the Berger system (http://kassiesa.net/uefa/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=705

For a league of 8 teams the fixtures would be like this - (notice the kind of rotating sequence of numbers 1-7, also notice that teams play one home and one away match respectively except when they play the highest number team - then they play two home or away matches in a row depending whether their number is in the lower half or the higher half):

Week one	1-8	.	2-7	.	3-6	.	4-5
Week two	8-5	.	6-4	.	7-3	.	1-2
Week three	2-8	.	3-1	.	4-7	.	5-6
Week four	8-6	.	7-5	.	1-4	.	2-3
Week five	3-8	.	4-2	.	5-1	.	6-7
Week six	8-7	.	1-6	.	2-5	.	3-4
Week seven	4-8	.	5-3	.	6-2	.	7-1

The first row is the first weeks fixtures; the second row, the second, etc.
This can then be reversed for the second half of the season fixtures.

Note that if '1' is at home '5' is away; if '2' is at home, '6' is away, etc in this league of 8; so the Manchester/ Merseyside/ North London teams would be given numbers 10 apart in the Premier League (as it is a league of 20).

 

[SteveM70]

Note that if '1' is at home '5' is away; if '2' is at home, '6' is away, etc in this league of 8; so the Manchester/ Merseyside/ North London teams would be given numbers 10 apart in the Premier League (as it is a league of 20).

Out of interest, how many pairs can that system cope with? The current premier league has (I think) five - the Liverpool teams, the Manchester teams, wolves and West Brom, arsenal and spuds, and Chelsea and fulham.

 

[Bald Rick]

Out of interest, how many pairs can that system cope with? The current premier league has (I think) five - the Liverpool teams, the Manchester teams, wolves and West Brom, arsenal and spuds, and Chelsea and fulham.

It goes across Leagues as well of course.

 

[adrock1976]

I have just took a telephone call from a friend in London who tells me that it appears that Juventus have been told that if they continue to still refuse to withdraw their support for the now-aborted European Super League, their place in Serie A could be in doubt for next season.

Were Juventus one of several top flight sides in Italy that got found out regarding match fixing (round about the 2006 World Cup), and got expelled (or relegated) from the top flight division?

 

[Typhoon]

Out of interest, how many pairs can that system cope with? The current premier league has (I think) five - the Liverpool teams, the Manchester teams, wolves and West Brom, arsenal and spuds, and Chelsea and fulham.

As many as you like, it fact it depends on every team is matched with another which resulted in teams miles from each other being matched (for instance, in the current situation, Newcastle might be matched with Burnley, like it or not). In an extension to cover the Premier League, 1 and 11 are never at home at the same time, nor 2 and 12, 3 and 13, 4 and 14, right through to 10 and 20. This goes back to the '50s when ALL matches were on a Saturday with a 3 o'clock kick off and it was the officials of the Football League (with the likes of the aptly named Alan Hardaker) that decided what's what, not the clubs. If I look at your examples, what it can't cope with is Wolves, West Brom and Villa; now, of course, thanks to TV, Wolves might be playing at home at 8pm on a Thursday, Villa at 5.30pm on a Saturday and Albion 7.45pm on a Tuesday. It needs a computer for all of that.

 

[SteveM70]

That’s a good example of the trickle down effect actually. The Villa and Birmingham can’t play at home at the same time, and because they groundshare Blues and Coventry can’t. Because the fixtures are announced before TV choices are made, ie with all weekend games given a nominal 3pm Saturday kickoff, it should follow that Villa and Coventry are at home the same weekends. Recently (though not this season) that was three different divisions

 

[Typhoon]

That’s a good example of the trickle down effect actually. The Villa and Birmingham can’t play at home at the same time, and because they groundshare Blues and Coventry can’t. Because the fixtures are announced before TV choices are made, ie with all weekend games given a nominal 3pm Saturday kickoff, it should follow that Villa and Coventry are at home the same weekends. Recently (though not this season) that was three different divisions

What complicates things more is that the leagues have different sizes. If they have the same size there is no problem, if Villa is 1 in the Premier League, then Blues are 11 in the Championship, because the system was replicated across all divisions. In the fifties, there was no groundsharing and big clubs rarely sunk below Division 2 (the equivalent of the Championship). Having said that Coventry were a small club and spent an awful lot of time in Division 3 South! No-one worried about the Division 3 clubs (except the loyal supporters, of course).

 

[roversfan2001]

Different clubs not being allowed to play at home at the same time (or even same day) is a strange one. It used to be the case that us and Burnley would never be at home on the same day, but it's happened a couple of times recently, including on a Thursday night, which was quite unusual.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the big clubs always play each other on the same weekend, with absolutely no interference from Sky...

 

[KashmireHawker]

The Prem have officially rolled over there UK TV Deals: http://www.premierleague.com/news/2139168

Premier League clubs have unanimously agreed a proposal to conclude a three-year renewal of the League’s UK live and non-live broadcast agreements with Sky Sports, BT Sport, Amazon Prime Video and BBC Sport.

This follows approval in principle for the renewal from Government after an extensive period of consideration.

The approval from Government will be embodied in an Exclusion Order under the Competition Act 1998, which will enable the Premier League to conclude the renewals without conducting its normal broadcast rights tender process.

In light of the damaging impact of the COVID-19 pandemic throughout the English football pyramid, the Premier League was able to demonstrate to Government exceptional and compelling reasons for the Exclusion Order.

 

[JamesT]

Different clubs not being allowed to play at home at the same time (or even same day) is a strange one. It used to be the case that us and Burnley would never be at home on the same day, but it's happened a couple of times recently, including on a Thursday night, which was quite unusual.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the big clubs always play each other on the same weekend, with absolutely no interference from Sky...

The usual explanation I've heard for not having two nearby clubs playing on the same day is the availability of police for outside the grounds. I'm assuming it's a reasonable stretch to get the additional officers out, if one of the teams is away there's more likelihood they'll be in another force's area and spread the load?

 

[KashmireHawker]

UEFA have switched the Champions League Final to Porto:

UEFA Champions League final to move to Portugal to allow 6,000 fans of each team to attend | Inside UEFA

Porto chosen to replace Istanbul following insurmountable travel difficulties for English fans as a result of Turkey being placed on UK’s ‘red list’.

www.uefa.com

The UEFA Champions League final between Manchester City FC and Chelsea FC will be held at the Estádio do Dragão in Porto on 29 May 2021, kick off 2100 CEST, following an offer to stage the game by the Portuguese FA (FPF) and the Portuguese authorities.

The final was originally scheduled to take place at the Atatürk Stadium in Istanbul but, following the UK government’s decision to place Turkey on its red list of COVID-19 travel destinations, staging the final there would have meant none of the clubs’ domestic fans would be able to travel to the game. After a year of fans being locked out of stadiums, UEFA thought that everything needed to be done to ensure the supporters of the two finalist teams could attend.

 

[scotrail158713]

UEFA thought that everything needed to be done to ensure the supporters of the two finalist teams could attend

So they hold it in another country?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Have UEFA swerved holding the final in the UK because many of their entourage are from "red zone" countries, and so wouldn't have been permitted to attend without quarantining?

 

[roversfan2001]

In fairness, the fact that Wembley is already occupied on the date of the final may have forced their hand a bit.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In fairness, the fact that Wembley is already occupied on the date of the final may have forced their hand a bit.

Numerous other 50,000+ capacity stadiums in the British Isles, I would suggest.