Foreign DOO

[ooo]

I was wondering where Driver Only Operation is used abroad. I imagine it is used on most suburban systems but where else?

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[Bletchleyite]

Pretty much all Swiss regional trains.

 

[cactustwirly]

On all German S Bahn trains as well.

 

[317666]

Pretty much all Swiss regional trains.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that - prettymuch all Swiss S-Bahn services are, but many regional trains still have a guard, especially on the smaller, metre-gauge railways.

I think it generally does tend to be either suburban or rural services that are DOO on the continent, although not in all cases - I don't think NMBS/SNCB in Belgium run any DOO services at all, for example. In Austria, most rural branches operated with DMUs tend to be DOO, but with an on-board ticket machine to allow people to still buy tickets on the train.

 

[MCR247]

All these foreigners, bring their DOO with them

 

[AlexNL]

Here in the Netherlands, the operators of the regional concessions (e.g. Syntus, Arriva, Connexxion) use DOO. Some have "stewards" on board of the trains, but the driver is the sole person responsible for releasing and closing the doors, as well as the dispatch process.

NS does have a guard on board their trains as this is required by the core network concession and the NS CAO (collective bargaining agreement). On NS territory doors are released by a driver, but closed by a guard.

In Belgium (SNCB/NMBS) and France (SNCF) every train has a guard on board.

 

[CC 72100]

France has no DOO?

Very much wrong on that front I'm afraid - very common around Paris and many TER services (newer stock only) are also DOO.

 

[AlexNL]

Ah, the Transilien/RER - you're right about that. I forgot those.

TER being DOO is news to me - and kinda surprises me for such a unionised country.

 

[CC 72100]

Ah, the Transilien/RER - you're right about that. I forgot those.

TER being DOO is news to me - and kinda surprises me for such a unionised country.

Not a huge amount from what I gather but some TER Picardie (obviously it's changed now with the remapping) was a couple of years back and news programmes did a bit of a feature on how trains are running around with no staff on board.

Generally speaking I do find them less visible than in the UK - I'm not talking about ticket checks etc, its just over here they're easy to pick out as having their door open between locking the train and shutting their local door. As in a lot of cases the drivers seem to be responsible for door operation you don't therefore 'notice' the Guard so much.

 

[radamfi]

Here in the Netherlands, the operators of the regional concessions (Syntus, Arriva, Connexxion) use DOO. Some have "stewards" on board of the trains, but the driver is the sole person responsible for releasing and closing the doors, as well as the dispatch process.

NS does have a guard on board their trains as this is required by the concession and the NS CAO (collective bargaining agreement). On NS territory doors are released by a driver, but closed by a guard.

What about the Gouda - Alphen aan den Rijn line? This is run by NS but is a separate franchise to the main NS network. Presumably the international Abellio service to Dusseldorf is also DOO.

 

[30907]

In the Czech Republic, where generally staffing levels are high, there are fair numbers of DOO trains in some areas, including some rural lines where the driver sells tickets AIUI.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that - prettymuch all Swiss S-Bahn services are, but many regional trains still have a guard, especially on the smaller, metre-gauge railways.

Near enough all SBB regional trains are DOO. Certainly all those operated using Stadler FLIRTs and KISS DoStos, which is most of them these days, but the blue and grey coaches with yellow doors (EW I/II) are set up for DOO (that's why they had the yellow plug doors fitted replacing the old slamdoors), as are the older power-trailer EMUs.

The vast majority of metre gauge lines are also DOO on multiple unit services, though loco hauled trains usually have guards.

I think it generally does tend to be either suburban or rural services that are DOO on the continent, although not in all cases - I don't think NMBS/SNCB in Belgium run any DOO services at all, for example. In Austria, most rural branches operated with DMUs tend to be DOO, but with an on-board ticket machine to allow people to still buy tickets on the train.

Yes, I think the UK is unusual in using DOO on long, busy trains. In Europe it's more usual to use it on short regional services and metro style services.

I also noticed a curious one on the FLIRTs operated by Meridian out of Munich. A pair of units runs together and splits down the line (Rosenheim I think). Two drivers are carried, one drives and one guards (including dispatch, though I think the driver actually presses the close button, so it's a bit Voyager esque). On reaching Rosenheim, the "guard" takes the second unit, and both operate DOO to their final destination.

 

[AlexNL]

What about the Gouda - Alphen aan den Rijn line? This is run by NS but is a separate franchise to the main NS network. Presumably the international Abellio service to Dusseldorf is also DOO.

Those services do not fall under the core network concession. Gouda - Alphen aan den Rijn is DOO, as is the route to Düsseldorf.

 

[Giugiaro]

Portugal have those on Trams and Metros, but if we're speaking of conventional railways...

There were DOO auto-rails, or rail buses, in the 1940's until the 1980's, that only had the driver, and could also sell tickets onboard on stops with no infrastructure.

 

[axlecounter]

I suspect Italy has no DOO at all. Certainly not on any RFI line. In Switzerland any S train but also RE and such.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Lille Metro, and some others in France using the VAL system, don't have drivers either.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes, I think the UK is unusual in using DOO on long, busy trains. In Europe it's more usual to use it on short regional services and metro style services.

I wouldn't call the RE services which run across NRW (eg Aachen-Köln-Siegen) short runs.
They must be almost Thameslink distances.
Presumably these loco-hauled services (often 10-car double deck) are DOO?
They have frequent on-board ticket checks.

 

[godfreycomplex]

No DOO in Canada (apart from Edmonton/Calgary/Montréal metros)
Can't think of any in "the former Yugoslavia" either

 

[Goldfish62]

The Lille Metro, and some others in France using the VAL system, don't have drivers either.

Or a number of Paris Metro lines.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, I think the UK is unusual in using DOO on long, busy trains. In Europe it's more usual to use it on short regional services and metro style services.

Paris RER train formations can be very long (and very,very busy!) as are some of the lines. Line D is 118 miles long.

I've noticed the RER trains have quite poor quality, very small in-cab CCTV monitors.

 

[radamfi]

as is the route to Düsseldorf.

Are there any other international routes that are DOO?

 

[AlexNL]

Are there any other international routes that are DOO?

All regional trains between the Netherlands and Germany are operated solely by the driver.

 

[Billy A]

Or a number of Paris Metro lines.

Two to date with one ongoing. The four new lines being built will all be automated.
The best thing about the automated lines is being able to sit in the front (albeit on longitudinal seating) and watch the stations appearing out of the darkness and wonder about how close they are - you can frequently see one from the other.

 

[cactustwirly]

Near enough all SBB regional trains are DOO. Certainly all those operated using Stadler FLIRTs and KISS DoStos, which is most of them these days, but the blue and grey coaches with yellow doors (EW I/II) are set up for DOO (that's why they had the yellow plug doors fitted replacing the old slamdoors), as are the older power-trailer EMUs.

The vast majority of metre gauge lines are also DOO on multiple unit services, though loco hauled trains usually have guards.



Yes, I think the UK is unusual in using DOO on long, busy trains. In Europe it's more usual to use it on short regional services and metro style services.

I also noticed a curious one on the FLIRTs operated by Meridian out of Munich. A pair of units runs together and splits down the line (Rosenheim I think). Two drivers are carried, one drives and one guards (including dispatch, though I think the driver actually presses the close button, so it's a bit Voyager esque). On reaching Rosenheim, the "guard" takes the second unit, and both operate DOO to their final destination.

I don't think that is true because the Salzburg services don't divide at Rosenheim, and I'm pretty sure I saw a guard on the train from Traunstein heading to Munich.

 

[fowler9]

Two to date with one ongoing. The four new lines being built will all be automated.
The best thing about the automated lines is being able to sit in the front (albeit on longitudinal seating) and watch the stations appearing out of the darkness and wonder about how close they are - you can frequently see one from the other.

The worst thing about all those automated lines is everyone moaning about having to pay for people not having jobs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think that is true because the Salzburg services don't divide at Rosenheim

The one I was on definitely did. Perhaps it was a special timetable for engineering work? And it was definitely DOO after the split - I particularly noticed this because I was standing in the way of the door sensor (unwittingly, the train was full and standing) and it was the driver that came back and told me off and manually closed it (there's a switch just inside the door at the side that does it).

It might be that in normal operations the guard dispatches and the driver presses the button - this isn't an unusual "modus operandi" for FLIRTs in mainland Europe - the PKP IC ones seem to work that way too.

 

[WideRanger]

In Japan, most lines have a guard. Some of the metros with platform edge doors are DOO. On quieter rural routes, some (generally 1 or 2 car trains) are DOO with a semi-open cab -the driver also supervising ticket payment on exit (often only through the door immediately behind the driver.

 

[317666]

I wouldn't call the RE services which run across NRW (eg Aachen-Köln-Siegen) short runs.
They must be almost Thameslink distances.
Presumably these loco-hauled services (often 10-car double deck) are DOO?
They have frequent on-board ticket checks.

They're usually no more than five or six double deckers, and aren't DOO.