Forgot Railcard Now they wish to prosecute me

Thunderlunt

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Hi I stupidly forgot to bring my Railcard with me when I went from London to Brighton and the ticket inspector cave me a caution. I told him that I had forgotten my card at home and it was my first time (which is was). I gave him my details and he said that I would he said that aslong as I was able to show that I had a railcard then it would be fine. I had waited for them to send me something in the post or a email so that I could prove it and now I have just received a letter saying they wish to prosecute me. I honestly have no idea what to do and quite scared as I don't want anything on my record as I to go uni and don't wish to have anything on my record any help would be appreciated. I also want to add that once I got home I went to find my Santander Railcard I couldn't find it anywhere and so I went to order a replacement. upon doing this I realised that my account didn't exist for whatever reason and so I ordered a regular one as a replacement. However I do have the emails to prove that I did in fact have a valid Railcard and that I am not lying.
 
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Fawkes Cat

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Welcome to the forum.

First of all, don't panic. You probably won't be prosecuted.

If you can find your (I assume 16-25) Railcard and can now produce it, then the railway will - once - let you off - see here from https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/are-you-eligible/

What happens if I have no battery life or can’t show my Railcard?
A:
If you don’t have any battery life, or have forgotten your device, it won't be possible to check that your Railcard discount is valid.
You could be asked to buy a single ticket for your journey, or be issued with a Penalty Fare.
If you do get caught out while travelling, you can make one claim a year to be refunded for any extra fare or penalty you incur.
For a list of train companies in Great Britain, and their details, click here.

If you cannot find the Railcard then you have rather more of a problem. But it is still likely that the railway will let you settle with them out of court. @Hadders gives some very good advice on this which I entirely agree with. See, for example https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...emr-what-will-happen-next.220098/post-5229901
 

Thunderlunt

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Welcome to the forum.

First of all, don't panic. You probably won't be prosecuted.

If you can find your (I assume 16-25) Railcard and can now produce it, then the railway will - once - let you off - see here from https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/are-you-eligible/



If you cannot find the Railcard then you have rather more of a problem. But it is still likely that the railway will let you settle with them out of court. @Hadders gives some very good advice on this which I entirely agree with. See, for example https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...emr-what-will-happen-next.220098/post-5229901
Hi thanks for the fast response I have not been able to find my Railcard and because of this I have ordered and received a replacement one. the only problem was that the account that o ordered the card that I had (Santander 16-25) on didn't exist so it left me with no choice but to make a new one and order one. I do however have the emails to prove that I did have one and that I am not lying. Would you reckon that would help at all?
 

gray1404

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Who issued the Railcard you cannot find? You need to contact them to report it as lost and order a replacement. Do you have a record of the original Railcard number?
 

Thunderlunt

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Who issued the Railcard you cannot find? You need to contact them to report it as lost and order a replacement. Do you have a record of the original Railcard number?
the company that issued it was Santander as it came a free 4 year card came with my students account. I want to try and login so I could order a replacement but my account for whatever reason didn't exist anymore. I do not have the original Railcard number however I still have the reference code from when I had ordered it
 

gray1404

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Okay, phone 1. The Railcard helpline. You will need to wait on hold a while to speak to a person. See if they can help you.

Failing that 2. Phone your bank and ask them if they can advise you want to do if you loose the Railcard issued with your account.

You are going to have to speak to a human I think.

Have you had a deep and full search high and low at home to find it?
 

Thunderlunt

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Okay, phone 1. The Railcard helpline. You will need to wait on hold a while to speak to a person. See if they can help you.

Failing that 2. Phone your bank and ask them if they can advise you want to do if you loose the Railcard issued with your account.

You are going to have to speak to a human I think.

Have you had a deep and full search high and low at home to find it?
thanks I'll give that a try and yes I have looked everywhere that It could possibly be absolutely destroyed my room trying to find it but couldn't find it anywhere at the time I had recently moved back home from university so it is possible it may had been lost during that process
 

30907

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the company that issued it was Santander as it came a free 4 year card came with my students account. I want to try and login so I could order a replacement but my account for whatever reason didn't exist anymore. I do not have the original Railcard number however I still have the reference code from when I had ordered it
If youy can no longer access your account, you need to contact Santander as a matter of urgency (irrespective of the Railcard matter).

You need also, when contacting the train operator, to explain clearly why you bought a new Railcard when you had claimed already to have one.

If the worst comes to the worst and they prosecute, a conviction for travelling without a valid ticket is a "non-recordable" offence, and a one-off offence like this is extremely unlikely to affect your uni application or future career.
 

Thunderlunt

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If youy can no longer access your account, you need to contact Santander as a matter of urgency (irrespective of the Railcard matter).

You need also, when contacting the train operator, to explain clearly why you bought a new Railcard when you had claimed already to have one.

If the worst comes to the worst and they prosecute, a conviction for travelling without a valid ticket is a "non-recordable" offence, and a one-off offence like this is extremely unlikely to affect your uni application or future career.
for the first part the login for the Santander Railcard is separate from my actual bank account as I had to enter a voucher code in so luckily the only problem I have to worry about is just the Railcard. Also I have understood that i would have to explain it so in preparation I had gotten the emails from when I had ordered it showing that I did in fact have one. hopefully I would be able to get a out of court settlement as the fair itself was fairly minor and I'm willing to pay the amount as I was an idiot and just want the whole thing sorted so here's hoping they show some sympathy since it's my first time ever having a problem with this.
 

Fawkes Cat

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To emphasise what we are, I think, assuming, the railway will only consider letting you off if you can produce the Railcard which you should have been carrying. Getting a new Railcard immediately afterwards won't be enough.

So follow @gray1404 's good advice - ask the Railcard people for help and look everywhere you can.

But be aware that if you cannot find it, then the railway may not believe you when you tell them that you have lost the card and all evidence of ever getting it. You might be surprised at the number of people who make that up as a story to try to get out of paying a penalty.

So if you do end up there, you need to write to the railway in line with what I have suggested higher up this thread. Explain that you understand you were wrong not to make sure you had your Railcard before travelling, and you have bought a new one to make sure that it won't happen again. If you do that, there will be a good chance that the railway will settle for the train fare not paid, plus administration costs of maybe one or two hundred pounds. This may feel like a lot, but if you are taken to court and lose, the fine and costs will probably come to a lot more.
 

Thunderlunt

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To emphasise what we are, I think, assuming, the railway will only consider letting you off if you can produce the Railcard which you should have been carrying. Getting a new Railcard immediately afterwards won't be enough.

So follow @gray1404 's good advice - ask the Railcard people for help and look everywhere you can.

But be aware that if you cannot find it, then the railway may not believe you when you tell them that you have lost the card and all evidence of ever getting it. You might be surprised at the number of people who make that up as a story to try to get out of paying a penalty.

So if you do end up there, you need to write to the railway in line with what I have suggested higher up this thread. Explain that you understand you were wrong not to make sure you had your Railcard before travelling, and you have bought a new one to make sure that it won't happen again. If you do that, there will be a good chance that the railway will settle for the train fare not paid, plus administration costs of maybe one or two hundred pounds. This may feel like a lot, but if you are taken to court and lose, the fine and costs will probably come to a lot more.
Hi and thanks for the response and all the advise. I will give the dudes at the Railcard support a call tomorrow and hopefully they can help with the problem of my account being just not accessable. Unfortunately though however o do believe that card is lost forever I had honestly been looking everywhere when I got home and the week until that letter came. I will just have to explain the situation show whatever I can (tho I do realise that it is quite futile as you have pointed out) that I didn't lie and hopefully they will just make me pay the fair and any other outstanding costs while showing that I have a now valid card that I will take care of and make sure I do not forget I on any journey. I really appreciate the help and advice that you lot have given and hopefully the trainline is in a nice mood
 

gray1404

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However, if the OP obtains a replacement of the forgotten railcard that was valid at the time their ticket was checked (by going down the lost/stolen railcard route) would I be right in saying that the TOC would have to accept this as per the 1 time "forgot railcard" provision?
 
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Thunderlunt

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However, if the OP obtains a replacement of the forgotten railcard that was valid at the time their ticket was checked (by going down the lost/stolen railcard route) would I be right in saying that the TOC would have to accept this as per the 1 time "forgot railcard" provision?
I mean hopefully but on the website dorm where you have to show proof of a card it it says that if can't be after the dude talked to me. they also don't mention of o have to get a replacement if it was lost or stolen on the journey. looked everywhere for a response for that but they are really vague about it
 

gray1404

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I would personally give them a call tonight. They are open 7am - 10pm 7 days a week. The number is 0345 3000 250 Do not complicate things by mentioning any new railcard you have purchased previously. It is simply you want a replacement of your Santander railcard. Although once they have found this, do check it is the right railcard they are replacing.
 

Thunderlunt

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I would personally give them a call tonight. They are open 7am - 10pm 7 days a week. The number is 0345 3000 250 Do not complicate things by mentioning any new railcard you have purchased previously. It is simply you want a replacement of your Santander railcard. Although once they have found this, do check it is the right railcard they are replacing.
yh I'll give that a try now since I only got home from work didn't even know that their calls center went on this late was gonna call them first thing in the morning
 

gray1404

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Let us know how you get on. Once we know if you are able to get the lost railcard replaced, we can help you draft a reply to the letter you have received from GTR.
 

Thunderlunt

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Let us know how you get on. Once we know if you are able to get the lost railcard replaced, we can help you draft a reply to the letter you have received from GTR.
Yh I definitely will. Unfortunately wasn't able to call them up this evening so I will be making sure ill give them a ring tomorrow. Just wanted to again say thanks for the help and advice yous lot have definitely make this allot easier and manageable. I know that the process has only begun but feel allot more confident about it so yh thanks
 

221129

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would I be right in saying that the TOC would have to accept this as per the 1 time "forgot railcard" provision?
No. As it doesn't apply in this case.

If you can find your (I assume 16-25) Railcard and can now produce it, then the railway will - once - let you off
However as no new ticket was purchased, or penalty fare issued, it does not apply in this case. Especially as the original railcard can't be found.
 

gray1404

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Hang on, if the OP is able to get a replacement of the railcard that was valid and could not produce at the time (the one they had already issued to them - NOT the new one they have since purchased) then surely this has to be accepted as it proves the OP was the holder of a railcard valid at the time of travel.

It is not a condition either that a new ticket or penalty fare has to be issued. Some TOCs allow you to forget your railcard once and you can simply produce it afterwards.
 
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Haywain

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Hang on, if the OP is able to get a replacement of the railcard that was valid and could not produce at the time (the one they had already issued to them - NOT the new one they have since purchased) then surely this has to be accepted as it proves the OP was the holder of a railcard valid at the time of travel.
I do not agree with this. The railcard, in this case, was not left at home and obtaining a replacement confirms this and that no railcard was held at the time of travel.
 

30907

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I do not agree with this. The railcard, in this case, was not left at home and obtaining a replacement confirms this and that no railcard was held at the time of travel.
I think gray1404 is referring to a duplicate railcard which would be issued on the basis of the original Santander one. Arguably that would suffice.

I agree that a new Railcard valid from a later start date, which is what the OP actually obtained, isn't any use in this case.
 

Haywain

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I think gray1404 is referring to a duplicate railcard which would be issued on the basis of the original Santander one. Arguably that would suffice.

I agree that a new Railcard valid from a later start date, which is what the OP actually obtained, isn't any use in this case.
I understand what was being suggested but the ‘allowance’ is for a forgotten railcard, not a lost railcard. I think that is an important distinction.
 

221129

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If the worst comes to the worst and they prosecute, a conviction for travelling without a valid ticket is a "non-recordable" offence, and a one-off offence like this is extremely unlikely to affect your uni application or future career.
However a recordable offence under the Regulation of Railways Act would be likely to succeed.
 

30907

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I understand what was being suggested but the ‘allowance’ is for a forgotten railcard, not a lost railcard. I think that is an important distinction.
Fair point.
However a recordable offence under the Regulation of Railways Act would be likely to succeed.
I agree, but my impression from this forum is that TOCs tend to go down the "slam dunk" route of the Byelaw offence of not having a valid ticket, rather than the recordable "intent to avoid payment etc."
That said, even a conviction for that would not have a great impact.
 

gray1404

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But again, isn't relevant as the condition only applies if a new ticket or penalty fare is issued. This isn't the case here.


Which still wasn't valid at the time of travel.

Not true, the new rules allow a customer to forget their railcard once and produce it later. There is no requirment for the TOC to issue a penalty fare or issue a new ticket in order to afford the customer this chance. Likewise, if a customer forgets their railcard once the TOC has to allow them the chance to produce it once and can't be going straight for prosecution. They have to follow the rules.

The OP hasn't reported back following their phone call to the railcard helpline today, but hopefully we will hear back from them soon.
 

skyhigh

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Not true, the new rules allow a customer to forget their railcard once and produce it later. There is no requirment for the TOC to issue a penalty fare or issue a new ticket in order to afford the customer this chance. Likewise, if a customer forgets their railcard once the TOC has to allow them the chance to produce it once and can't be going straight for prosecution. They have to follow the rules.
But this isn't a forgotten railcard, it's a lost railcard.
 

Vespa

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You re not the first to forget or lose a railcard.

Too late now of course, for future reference it would be better to take a photo of your railcard and store it on your phone and email a copy to yourself, this would help to convince them you are indeed in possession of a railcard.

I do this to cover myself, I make several back ups, email them to me and take a photo of the tickets as well then make duplicate copies of the same.

There should be an electronic trail of your railcard somewhere when you make an online purchase.
 

Haywain

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Too late now of course, for future reference it would be better to take a photo of your railcard and store it on your phone and email a copy to yourself, this would help to convince them you are indeed in possession of a railcard.
This is no help at all. The requirement is to show the railcard on demand, not a copy. The only railcard that can be displayed on a phone is an electronic railcard.
 

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