Forgotten Railcard

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by seasidersfan, 10 Oct 2017.

  1. seasidersfan

    seasidersfan Member

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    Hi just a bit worried about something that happened today. I travel from Blackpool North to Preston every day and I have a 16-25 railcard. I book through TrainLine and book an off peak return (with railcard discount) every day. It turns out I forgot my wallet today for the first time which contains my railcard, so on the return leg I was asked to show my railcard which I didn't have. The inspectors were pleasant and offered for me to buy another ticket. I couldn't do that because I didn't have my wallet. I offered instead to purchase another ticket on the trainline app at full price and remove the railcard discount. They didn't allow me to do that (not sure why, I'd say it was equivalent to their offer) and said I'd be sent a letter to resolve the dispute. I assumed at the time that meant a bill in the post with a penalty fare plus admin fee or whatever but when I did some research after getting home I read that I could be getting sent a court summons? Will this really happen and is there any way to just pay a fine and be done with it, especially since this is the first time anything like this has happened? I'd pay a huge sum if it meant not going to court...
     
  2. robbeech

    robbeech Member

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    It's fairly unlikely that you'll need to go to court for this. The best outcome would be you being given the opportunity to present your railcard to show that you do indeed have one, a likely outcome would be the need to purchase a full ticket from them which would be an undiscounted, perhaps anytime fare, it's also more than possible you'll get one of Northern (if it was them) fixed penalties which is often £80. This might be excluding the price of the ticket. I'm sure others will be able to add more detail.
     
  3. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    Read https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/f...ts/1084-what-can-i-do-if-i-forget-my-railcard :

     
  4. seasidersfan

    seasidersfan Member

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  5. sheff1

    sheff1 Established Member

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    Interesting that Northern refer a penalty fare when they do not operate a Penalty Fares scheme.
     
  6. seasidersfan

    seasidersfan Member

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    Just sent this email to general.enquiries@northernrailway.co.uk. Trying to be on the ball straight away and get it resolved ASAP.

    To whom it may concern,

    I am writing regarding an incident which occurred on Tuesday 10/10/2017.

    On this day I purchased an off-peak open return from Blackpool North to Preston (Lancs) via the Trainline mobile app. The return ticket was purchased at the discounted 16-25 railcard rate of £4.80 shortly before boarding the 10:21 service from Blackpool North to Huddersfield.

    However, I had forgotten my wallet on this day, containing my railcard. I did not realise this until the return leg, where at approximately 4PM, I disembarked the return train to Blackpool North at Poulton-le-Fylde. Upon leaving the station I was asked by inspectors to show my railcard. I could not find my wallet and told them that I was unable to present my railcard. The inspectors then offered for me to purchase another ticket, but since my wallet was at home, I was not able to do so. I offered to purchase a second ticket via the Trainline app without the railcard discount but this offer was refused.

    I was then asked to provide personal details which I agreed to. I was told that a letter would be sent to my address within 4 to 6 weeks to resolve the dispute. This is the first time I have been involved in an incident like this, and I realise it was a grave and shortsighted error of judgement to forget the my railcard and I thoroughly apologise to Arriva Rail North, Trainline and staff at Poulton-le-Fylde for this. I will be absolutely committed to ensure this, or any similar incident, does not occur again.

    I would like to know if it would be possible to come to a settlement before such a letter is received. I would be more than willing to pay any penalty fares, admin fees, and any other associated damages as soon as possible. I have attached to this email images of my railcard, as well as screenshots of the tickets used. I have also included at the end of this email all details that I provided to the station inspectors at Poulton-le-Fylde.

    I hope that a settlement can be reached quickly and I once again sincerely apologise for all damages and inconvenience caused to all affected.

    Kind regards,
     
  7. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    If Northern have a policy for dealing with a forgotten railcard they have to apply that here. In other words you provide them with a copy of the railcard and, as its your first time, that's the end of the matter (no refund due as you didn't pay any additional fare.)
     
  8. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I'm not so sure about that one. After all, the first step in the process is for the passenger to purchase a new, undiscounted ticket. Since the first step didn't happen it doesn't follow that later steps will.
     
  9. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    I agree. Just because a passenger unilaterally 'short circuits' the system doesn't mean everyone is satisfied. Surely the requirement to buy a new ticket, and then get it refunded later, is intended to encourage the passenger to do the right thing next time...
     
  10. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Although it is interesting that he offered to buy a full price ticket online, as that was the only way he could do it, and that action was rejected. Are there any rules that state that online tickets are not allowed in this situation?
     
  11. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    If Northern accept mobile tickets then they should have accepted it. The OP could argue they offered to by a new ticket and the offer was rejected.
     
  12. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Not that I'm aware of, but equally I'm not aware of anything that specifically says that they are.
     
  13. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    Isn't it the case the mobile tickets are only valid if purchased and activated prior to travel? That would mean that such an offer would not satisfy the requirement to purchase a new ticket.
     
  14. 142blue

    142blue Member

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    "
    So you got on the train at BPN?
    Was a ticket inspection carried out at the gate?
    You travelled to Preston
    All day there you didn't realise your wallet was missing. Did you not need bank cards at any point during the day
    You were in Preston until 3.30pm approximately
    Why did you leave at Poulton rather than Blackpool North?

    There's a lot of holes in this story that Northern may wish to examine and whilst it is not impossible you may have left home minus your wallet it is open to being disputed
    Was a ticket check not conducted at the gates nor was one conducted on the train from BPN to PRE?
    If the wallet had been lost or stolen in Preston this story would seem to add up more.

    However you have had a return ticket for the journey (good), you have offered to buy a ticket electronically (also good) but you have travelled on a discounted fare without being able to present the card that offers the discount (not good)

    I'd be looking at putting right with Northern the cost you should have paid for a ticket without a railcard or if you can now demonstrate you do hold a railcard then appeal to their better nature and apologize and say you have learned from this incident.

    It's not the worst thing you hear about on here but I can see their side of it
     
  15. seasidersfan

    seasidersfan Member

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    Ticket inspections were carried out at all the instances you mentioned, however I was not asked to produce my railcard until 4PM at Poulton-le-Fylde.

    Since I brought my own lunch that day I did not need bank cards. I left at Poulton because I was being picked up there by a friend that evening rather than going back to Blackpool and getting a bus.

    If you read my second post that's the email I sent to Northern later that evening apologising for the incident and offering to pay any settlement.
     

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