Forgotten Railcards: Proposals for system to refund charges

[jon0844]

That's why the only way to lessen the blow is to offer a system that is monitored to prevent repeated fraud, and also doesn't leave the railway out of pocket (the admin fee).

If it allows someone to potentially rip off a TOC once per year, I guess you can't stop it - any more than you can stop every single Gold Card owner using their ability to get at least one or two refunds for a ticket purchased when the Gold Card was left at home.

In other words, you go into town with a mate one day - buy them a ticket, then claim later you used it because you forgot your card. In theory, as you're allowed some replacements every year, every single season ticket holder could pull that scam without much chance of being caught.

I guess the industry figures most people won't take the risk, or simply not bother with the hassle of getting a refund.. but if there's a limit AND admin fee, it's even less likely that anyone but the person who genuinely did forget their card for whatever reason (let's suggest they lost it as against couldn't be bothered to carry it).

 

[island]

Would you be OK with the cost of Railcards going up to (say) £50 for a year and £40 for future years to cover the cost of maintenance of the database of Railcards and refunds which would need to be established, staff training on how to use it, and so on?

 

[jon0844]

That's exactly what I said earlier - it will fail the 'Would you rather fix this, at the expense of that..' style question that you just asked.

However, I see no harm in the industry trying to better itself and improve things - from improving information printed on tickets, TVM software, the way receipts are printed etc. It's something that when things are upgraded should be looked at, rather than just keep things as they are.

Smartcard ticketing can fix loads of these problems, as the railcard would be added to the card itself and only apply a discount if someone a railcard account present. The only issue then would be whether the right person had the right card, but that's fixed by having a photo printed ON the smartcard.

 

[185]

More words of wisdom from Barry Doe in this month's RAIL

In Barry's defence, he was the only person at Rail who bothered get in touch after a very serious (non-revenue-related) ongoing legal issue with a major train company, who had initially tried & failed to make 30 safety-critical staff redundant.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Would you be OK with the cost of Railcards going up to (say) £50 for a year and £40 for future years to cover the cost of maintenance of the database of Railcards and refunds which would need to be established, staff training on how to use it, and so on?

Whenever speculation on this subject of "improving" the integrity of Railcard use come round, someone usually suggests a national database, and then someone else flags up the cost of maintaining it. Quite reasonably.

I'm going to chip in by agreeing that such a database would be an entirely appropriate and proportional measure; detailling to whom each Railcard has been issued, expiry date and contact information. I couldn't begin to estimate the additional cost (including staff procedures and access), but whatever it is, does seem a reasonable burden to be borne by the passenger.

However, I will point out that the underlying basics appear to be in place already, and anyone applying for a Railcard on-line are included in an opt-out database for marketing and promotional purposes, and whatever the cost penalty of that database has been doesn't appear, to me, as having imposed any penalty. Perhaps the marketing potential really has been exploited to cover its costs.

Whether such a database really needs to be available on-board during ticket checks or just when processing appeals (after on-board checks have been conducted as at present) or claims of loss, I'll leave others to consider. That surely would increase the system overhead costs.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I am amazed that there isn't a national database tbh. We hand over all the details when we buy a railcard, so what on earth is done with it all afterwards? Plus, many railcards are already added to a database as they are bought online.

 

[David Goddard]

Like with other similar schemes, its all in the terms and conditions- if you dont bring it you cant use it, and cant claim later

If I forget my National Trust Card I can't get into their properties for free.
If I forget my work discount card I can't get 15% of my groceries.
If I forget my Shell Driver's Club Card I can't get points on my petrol.

Therefore, If I forget my railcard I can't use a discounted ticket.

Simples!

 

[MikeWh]

...
If I forget my Shell Driver's Club Card I can't get points on my petrol.

I forget my Boots Advantage card and the cashier says "No problem, I'll flag the points to be added later".

But. That doesn't mean I don't agree that people really ought to remember their railcard, just that comparing with other scenarios doesn't always back up your point of view.

 

[exile]

Well, in most "forgotten card" situations I have been allowed to use the relevant facility as the staff member in question is able to check if I am on their database, subject to showing ID. And in this scenario we're talking about getting a refund after the event, not being allowed the discount at the time of purchase.