Former Trent station (near Long Eaton)

Dr Hoo

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More generally, surely the point of the Thames-Clyde 'Express' for most of its life was that it facilitated inter-regional journeys, hence the importance of connections at placers like Kettering or Trent, or convoluted routings via Nottingham and/or Derby, etc.

If you wanted to travel rapidly between London and Glasgow you would use the WCML.

I realise that in an earlier era the Midland Railway might have wanted to create the idea of a prestigious train but those days vanished many years ago.
 
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edwin_m

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I suspect without checking any timetables that the options were Trent-London departing south (today's direct route), and Trent-London departing north(ish) and running via Nottingham and what is now the 'Old Dalby' test track.

I haven't got the details to hand, but there was at one time a London-Manchester service that used the Manton route to run via both Nottingham and Derby, so northbound this ran southwards through Trent before turning off towards Derby and southbound it ran northwards through Trent before turning off towards Nottingham.
Fair enough, but if you allow that route then it doesn't make Trent particularly unusual, as the same happened in Nottingham with the same trains and probably others too. It could in theory also have happened in Derby, although I don't know if any London-Derby trains ever ran via Chaddesden.
 

WesternLancer

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Some good images on the local image archive - but search facility I find hard to narrow them down - here's one
 

Tryfan

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Fair enough, but if you allow that route then it doesn't make Trent particularly unusual, as the same happened in Nottingham with the same trains and probably others too. It could in theory also have happened in Derby, although I don't know if any London-Derby trains ever ran via Chaddesden.
I suppose that did make Nottingham unusual too in that trains heading in opposite directions could have the same destination (St Pancras). I think Trent was a more special case as there were only two platforms and is in the middle of nowhere relatively speaking. In the original post, before it got moved into its own thread, I was talking of a station punching above its weight.

regarding Chaddesden: I can’t recall ever seeing anything head into the sidings from Derby station north curve. It must have happened but I’d be surprised if it was scheduled passenger services. Happy to be corrected on that front.
 

Bevan Price

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I suppose that did make Nottingham unusual too in that trains heading in opposite directions could have the same destination (St Pancras). I think Trent was a more special case as there were only two platforms and is in the middle of nowhere relatively speaking. In the original post, before it got moved into its own thread, I was talking of a station punching above its weight.

regarding Chaddesden: I can’t recall ever seeing anything head into the sidings from Derby station north curve. It must have happened but I’d be surprised if it was scheduled passenger services. Happy to be corrected on that front.
Yes - some scheduled passenger services did use the Chaddesden route. Travelled on one myself into Derby, but would have to search old records to find out which train it was. (Might have been a Skegness to Derby services, to avoid having to reverse the Class B1 before sending it back home to the Eastern Region)
 

Taunton

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Yes - some scheduled passenger services did use the Chaddesden route. Travelled on one myself into Derby, but would have to search old records to find out which train it was. (Might have been a Skegness to Derby services, to avoid having to reverse the Class B1 before sending it back home to the Eastern Region)
The first time I ever went to Derby (in fact, when travelling to Trent), the onward dmu to Nottingham, and presumably to Lincoln etc as it was an Eastern Region set, departed that way. So I long had the impression that it was the "normal" route.
 

70014IronDuke

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More generally, surely the point of the Thames-Clyde 'Express' for most of its life was that it facilitated inter-regional journeys, hence the importance of connections at placers like Kettering or Trent, or convoluted routings via Nottingham and/or Derby, etc.

If you wanted to travel rapidly between London and Glasgow you would use the WCML.

I realise that in an earlier era the Midland Railway might have wanted to create the idea of a prestigious train but those days vanished many years ago.

I suspect it is true that by the 1930s most people would choose the WCML if travelling from London, but I think you will find that up to 1962-ish the Midland route was still advertised/marketed. as a 'standard' route to Scotland. Surely someone can check, but ITYWF Thames-Clyde, for example, only began to introduce stops on the S&C (Appleby, Settle) from about 64 or 65.

I can only assume this practice continued so late in the day because there was no strong ovearall management, and so the lines of management inherited in the 1922 grouping just carried on into the early 60s, and of course, each manager wanted to keep his 'flagship' services. If you think about it, it's very similar to the LMS keeping the St Pancras - Manchester Central route as a front-line service when modern management thought would have said immediately "Let's cull those trains immediately and concentrate on running a fast, hourly service Euston - Man London Rd."

But they didn't do that. Of course, come WCML electification, the Midland route was more or less ready to act as a back-up service immediately as a result.

Yes - some scheduled passenger services did use the Chaddesden route. Travelled on one myself into Derby, but would have to search old records to find out which train it was. (Might have been a Skegness to Derby services, to avoid having to reverse the Class B1 before sending it back home to the Eastern Region)
The Chaddesden route was used a bit more than that at times. ITYWF from summer 1960 for two years or so the approx 12.15 Manchester LR - Euston was diverted Stoke - Derby - St Pancras and in the down a 13.55 St Pancras - Derby - Stoke - Manchester London Rd both used the Chadd route for at least some of this time. There was a photo of a Class 40 (the down train was almost always a Camden Cl 40) arriving in Derby from the north in a TI (or Railway Magazine, not sure) soon after these diversions were introduced to relieve the WCML of traffic.

The Chadd route was also used for some Nottingham - Birmingham - (possibly Bristol or Cardiff) trains too, I believe, but I'm not sure if these were regular or summer specials.
 
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Many of the local inbound DMUs from Nottm were routed into Derby via Chadd. Then departed to Nottm via the usual route via Way & Works.
The long-running Lincoln - Tamworth TPO also went via Chadd.
 

Tryfan

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Yes - some scheduled passenger services did use the Chaddesden route. Travelled on one myself into Derby, but would have to search old records to find out which train it was. (Might have been a Skegness to Derby services, to avoid having to reverse the Class B1 before sending it back home to the Eastern Region)
Thank you. Makes perfect sense
The first time I ever went to Derby (in fact, when travelling to Trent), the onward dmu to Nottingham, and presumably to Lincoln etc as it was an Eastern Region set, departed that way. So I long had the impression that it was the "normal" route.
I used to travel into and out of Derby a lot from Long Eaton. As a spotter from 1973 and daily commute from 1978 to 1985. I don’t recall ever going that way. I used to hope it would happen just once.
 

Senex

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I suppose that did make Nottingham unusual too in that trains heading in opposite directions could have the same destination (St Pancras). I think Trent was a more special case as there were only two platforms and is in the middle of nowhere relatively speaking. In the original post, before it got moved into its own thread, I was talking of a station punching above its weight.

regarding Chaddesden: I can’t recall ever seeing anything head into the sidings from Derby station north curve. It must have happened but I’d be surprised if it was scheduled passenger services. Happy to be corrected on that front.
The
I suppose that did make Nottingham unusual too in that trains heading in opposite directions could have the same destination (St Pancras). I think Trent was a more special case as there were only two platforms and is in the middle of nowhere relatively speaking. In the original post, before it got moved into its own thread, I was talking of a station punching above its weight.

regarding Chaddesden: I can’t recall ever seeing anything head into the sidings from Derby station north curve. It must have happened but I’d be surprised if it was scheduled passenger services. Happy to be corrected on that front.
The line from Spondon Jn to Derby South Jn and the curve thence to Derby Jn was in regular passenger use right up to closure in October 1968, though I don't think there were many trains over it by the end. The only WTT I've still got from that period is for Winter 1962 (kept because of the enhanced "Peak" Manchester service), and that shews a significantly unbalanced service , with a significant number of DMUs from Lincoln coming in that way but I think only one going out. The Derby South Jn to Derby North Jn curve (the Avoider) was last in regular booked passenger use between July 1960 and April 1966 for Manchester trains not booked gto call at Derby.
 

70014IronDuke

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How could we have forgotten the "STAR" flagship passenger service that went via Chadd in the 1960s (although I see now that Senex has, sort of, mentioned it indirectly)?

I'm talking, of course, about nothing less than the Midland Pullman, that flash of bright blue and cream that truly dazzled anyone used to the regular green (or black) and maroon of trains at the time.

I think it's difficult to imagine the impact the blue pullman had back in those days - because of course, BR introduced blue as standard in 65 and since then we've had a plethora of colour schemes of every hue imaginable.

It's true, I never saw it going via Chadd, but I remember reading that it took that route, and Senex's comment above would confirm that. (I didn't know any other PX - Manchester trains took avoided Derby - I was under the impresssion that they all stopped.)
 

Tryfan

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How could we have forgotten the "STAR" flagship passenger service that went via Chadd in the 1960s (although I see now that Senex has, sort of, mentioned it indirectly)?

I'm talking, of course, about nothing less than the Midland Pullman, that flash of bright blue and cream that truly dazzled anyone used to the regular green (or black) and maroon of trains at the time.

I think it's difficult to imagine the impact the blue pullman had back in those days - because of course, BR introduced blue as standard in 65 and since then we've had a plethora of colour schemes of every hue imaginable.

It's true, I never saw it going via Chadd, but I remember reading that it took that route, and Senex's comment above would confirm that. (I didn't know any other PX - Manchester trains took avoided Derby - I was under the impresssion that they all stopped.)
The September 1962 timetable shows the Midland Pullman as non stop Manchester Central dep 07.45 - St. Pancras arr 10.55. The down return St. Pancras dep 18.10 - Manchester Central arr 21.20, again non stop. I could be reading it wrong but it certainly looks non stop

source: timetableworld.com
 

70014IronDuke

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The September 1962 timetable shows the Midland Pullman as non stop Manchester Central dep 07.45 - St. Pancras arr 10.55. The down return St. Pancras dep 18.10 - Manchester Central arr 21.20, again non stop. I could be reading it wrong but it certainly looks non stop

source: timetableworld.com
ITYWF it stopped pu/sd at Cheadle Heath. Otherwise non-stop througout it's life until April 66.
 

edwin_m

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I've certainly read that the BP avoided Derby, but as it didn't depart Derby northwards for London and it didn't stop at or pass through Trent, it's probably off-topic for this thread!
 
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The line through Chadd Sidings was a busy stretch of railway, back in the day.

It was, of course, the first line into Derby, opened by the Midland Counties Railway. The northern spur between Derby South Jn and Derby North Jn (forming a triangle), was a later Midland Railway addition.

In Midland days, many of the crack Manchester expresses used it to avoid Derby station altogether. Again used in the early 1960s for some diverted Manchester - London trains to avoid Derby. Plus the well-known Midland Pullman.
 
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Don't worry guys, I remember seeing the Midland Pullman passing over Spondon Junction of an evening, whilst playing in the adjacent muddy old Derby Canal...
 

urbophile

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Dovey Junction would also appear to be named after a river.
But it's not in England.

At Christmas my grandmother in Castle Donington used to take a freshly killed local chicken in a cardboard box, labelled and tied with string, to Trent station, pay to have it carried in the guard's accommodation of a passenger train, then ring my dad at work, who would be on the platform at St Pancras to meet the train, bring it home, and get it ready for roasting.
Roast train. Sounds a very exotic dish.
 

hstsrule

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Trent Station would be a big hub because you could change between the lines for Nottingham and Derby. This means you could get a train from St. Pancras on the MML to any destination and change at Trent. However, East Midlands Parkway (located close to the Trent site) serves the same purpose.
 

midland1

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Trent station as said was in the middle of nowhere, now a have a new one close by East Midlands parkway!
 

NoRoute

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Trent Station would be a big hub because you could change between the lines for Nottingham and Derby. This means you could get a train from St. Pancras on the MML to any destination and change at Trent. However, East Midlands Parkway (located close to the Trent site) serves the same purpose.

Does Parkway serve the same purpose? I'd say not, Trent was on the direct route between Nottingham and Derby so presumably trains could stop there without turning around, whereas Parkway involves both a detour and, on a Notts-Derby service a reversal, but do any of them actually detour via Parkway?

As an Interchange station I'd say Trent, by being on the East-West route is a more optimal location than Parkway, though far worse in terms of road connectivity.
 
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I don't think EM P'way was conceived as an interchange station, whilst Trent most certainly was.
 

edwin_m

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Trent station as said was in the middle of nowhere, now a have a new one close by East Midlands parkway!
However if you want to walk or drive between the two, you will find it's a great deal further than the crow-flies distance.

Many years ago I was sitting behind the driver in a DMU, who stopped to report someone pushing a motorbike along the trackside. It was very wet at the time, so I think the only nearby road crossing of the Trent was flooded out and they were taking the quickest remaining route.
 

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