Formula 1

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by sk688, 26 Jun 2017.

  1. sk688

    sk688 Member

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    Hi all

    Creating this thread as we don't seem to have an F1 thread here , and I want to ask one quick question

    What are people's opinions on the Sebastian Vettel / Lewis Hamilton brake testing / crashing incident yesterday at Baku ?

    For what it's worth , I thought that Hamilton was in the wrong for exiting the corner slowly , but Vettel's reaction was OTT ( but understandable in the heat of the moment ) . Still doesn't excuse him from getting a ( deserved ) penalty

    Also , what a thrilling race Baku was , much better than 2016 . Multiple safety cars , last minute on the line drama , Ricciardo won out of nowhere , McLaren scored points , Force India taking each other out , Bottas's comeback and the SV/LH incident
     
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  3. GB

    GB Established Member

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    I'm not so sure he intended to hit Hamilton the way he did. He had one hand one the wheel and looked like he didn't straighten up quick enough.

    Penalty deserved though as he did cause a collision.

    ..and yes the race was miles better than last year!
     
  4. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    It's up to the leader how fast he drives, but he had to drive slowly to allow the safety car time to get clear. He almost got caught out by that at the first restart, as he almost overtook the safety car before he was allowed to.

    Vettel expected him to accelerate and Hamilton didn't, he stayed at a constant speed. Hamilton did nothing wrong.

    Vettel's behaviour in banging wheels was disgraceful. I think it WAS deliberate, because of how he did it: if you bang side-on you avoid damaging your suspension because the tyre absorbs the shock, but if you are not exactly side-on there's a good chance you'll bend your suspension arm (as happened to Damon Hill in Adelaide 94). Vettel knew exactly what he was doing. I don't buy the "he misjudged it", the guy won four world championships, you don't do that if you can't drive one-handed. Hamilton said the same thing.

    Vettel was very lucky to not be disqualified. I think he should have been disqualified. And I think he would have been if he wasn't driving a Ferrari. Charlie Whiting's Ferrari International Assistance comes to the rescue again.
     
    Last edited: 26 Jun 2017
  5. TheNewNo2

    TheNewNo2 Member

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    I don't believe this was a pro-Ferrari thing, but the ten second penalty and three points on the licence does seem quite lenient to me. He should have been penalised for accidentally ramming Hamilton from the back, and then quite probably disqualified for deliberately ramming him from the side.

    A very exciting race.
     
  6. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Absolutely Vettel's fault. Keeping in mind his behaviour in the last year towards other drivers and Charlie Whiting in particular, he got away almost too lightly. Like Hamilton said after the race; what kind of an example is that setting? Especially when he can still finish ahead of the other guy.
     
    Last edited: 26 Jun 2017
  7. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    I'm seeing this quite a lot today and cannot really understand why.

    The stewards examined data, he didn't brake at that point and merely lifted off, he had done so previously at the same point. He is the leader under the safety car, he controls the pack. The fact that Vettel had a brainfart places no blame on Hamilton whatsoever.
     
  8. Bromley boy

    Bromley boy Established Member

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    Agreed, disqualification would have been more appropriate. Hamilton was very unlucky, once again.

    Hamilton has perhaps been a tad unsportsmanlike in his response, by calling Vettel a "disgrace". He may have been better served by remaining silent and allowing observers to draw their own conclusions.

    That level of passion and aggression is what has resulted in both drivers scoring multiple world championships.
     
    Last edited: 26 Jun 2017
  9. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    I'm not a Hamilton fan, nor a Ferrari fan. I have always had a soft spot for Williams and am both thrilled and gutted for Lance Stroll who got his first podium, but so nearly got second place.

    Looking at this, the first bump was Vettel's fault, but forgivable. It was a simple misjudgement. I think Lewis wasn't bothered by it.

    What was unforgivable was the red mist that descended on Vettel afterwards. If he thought he was brake tested (he wasn't as the video clearly shows) then a radio call was the way to go. To pull up along side and gesticulate and either unintentionally or intentionally cause a second bump is unforgivable and should've resulted in disqualification.
     
  10. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    Why? They weren't racing and were behind the safety car, just about to undergo the restart procedure. Hamilton has to create a gap to the safety car, so that when he decides to get to racing speed (and that is his call unless he totally misjudges it and doesn't go until after he has crossed the safety car line and racing is resumed)

    There was telemetry to show that how he had taken the corner matched the previous lap and other laps under the safety car. In other words, his driving was consistent and Vettel should've predicted the way he would've taken that corner. He misjudged it, and just as if he had run into the back of someone on the road, that was his fault, but forgivable (a warning over the radio would suffice).

    What happened afterwards was a reaction that you should never see on the track. He got off extremely lightly and should IMO have been black flagged.
     
    Last edited: 26 Jun 2017
  11. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    I agree - Vettel should have been disqualified.

    The shunt was one thing, the ramming a moment later was quite another thing altogether.
     
  12. the sniper

    the sniper Established Member

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    It's not the first time Hamilton has excessively backed the pack up behind him at the end of a safety car period, Vettel even said so himself, so I'm not sure why it took him so badly by surprise. Hamilton slowing so much just encourages the pack behind to fall over each other, it's unnecessary and unsporting, but he can control the pace how he likes under the rules.

    As for Vettel, I was sure he was going to get disqualified. I honestly don't believe he meant to make contact with Hamilton though. Sure, he wanted to swerve at him, but I think he misjudged it and made contact. Vettel is a guy who rarely seems to admit to being in the wrong in on track conflict, so I never felt he was going to admit to having clumsily, accidentally hit him. I wasn't sure how he was going to explain it, but I certainly didn't foresee the sudden case of amnesia that wiped out his memory of the second collision! :lol:

    Great drama though. The race was great overall too, everything that it promised to be last year after the GP2 races but the GP failed to deliver. This year the F1 GP was up there with the F2 races, and it's not often you can say that...
     
  13. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    Normally I think I'd agree, but in this case I don't. Hamilton can't overtake the safety car until the safety car line. This means he has to let the safety car get ahead, and it wasn't being driven very quickly in Baku. He almost misjudged it on the first restart- his team warned him over the radio about it- and so he will have been more anxious the second time.

    He didn't breaktest or slow down, unlike what he did the other year. He just didn't speed up. The bump was entirely Vettel's fault, but I don't think Hamilton was too fussed about it.

    IMO the contact was too careful for it to be a misjudgment. If you bang exactly side-on then the tyres take the impact and nothing happens to your car. If it is slightly mis-aligned you break your suspension. Vettel knew exactly what he was doing, it was too accurate to be a mistake, and four-time world champions don't misjudge distances at 50mph.
     
  14. KashmireHawker

    KashmireHawker Member

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    Very glad we now have this forum - and Sunday's race was an absolute cracker. I wonder how glum every team who lost some carbon fibre off their chassis will feel looking at the repair bills...

    Will of course be remembered for Lewis/Seb bust-up of which it's 100% Vettel's fault - as leader behind the SC, Lewis got to dictate the Safety Car and you could see Seb was probably getting 40 winks before the restart when he flew like a falcon into Ham's rear.

    Should have been either a 25 Second time Pen or a DQ for his next action, of which seemed like the moment when Zidane headbutted the Italian in the 2006 FIFA World Cup Final. Safety of the driver clearly put at grave risk, particularly if he went into Lewis at any faster speed then he did.

    Had a feeling finally that Baku would be an excellent venue - and to know this weekend's race will always stick in the memory proves that.

    What next I wonder??
     
  15. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Superb race on Sunday - full on wacky races - the car of safety got some good use and 12 year old Lance Stroll got on the podium. Alonso even got points in the Honda Civic powered McLaren!

    Hamilton whined on like the silly little petulent child he can be but Vettel was at fault - he took his eye off the ball
     
  16. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Well that makes me feel a bit better about my age!

    That's the softest I've heard anyone be about Vettel's deliberate manoeuvre...

    As for "whiny", I take it you didn't hear anything of the Ferrari team radio last year?
     
  17. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    they are all precious, cossetted, spoilt, whiny children. I don't think Vettel deliberately rammed Hamilton, if he did he needs to watch those old Schumacher videos! ;)
     
  18. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    Agreed
     
  19. sk688

    sk688 Member

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    With a few notable exceptions , like Jenson Button ( until his retirement )
     
  20. chris89

    chris89 Established Member

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    Just sod's law. Most likely one of the best races and due to the start time missed most off it as was at work.

    Vettel and Hamilton is just bah, following on from Schumacher years and what happened with him and various others.

    Problem with both of them, is the ego's they have clash like anything. For the incident, the first one, looked completely accidental but can see where Vettel comes from, as was expecting Lewis to accelerate, the second well. surprised he didn't get disqualified, although he has 9points on his license, so if he gets 3 more is banned for one race.

    Although, Hamilton was trying to get team orders issues, to try and get Bottas to hold back Vettel.

    Either way, Great to see Ricciardo win the race, as cheering him on, since Button left and even better for Stroll to get a Podium and was so close to getting 2nd as well. + Good sport to allow himself to have a shooey to.
     
  21. sk688

    sk688 Member

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    And it's finally over

    Ron's 37 year stay at McLaren is formally over , having sold his shares and resigned from his position on the board , after his ousting in 2016

    Quite an ignomius end for the man , imo , who presided over some of McLaren's finest eras and led them through high levels of success ( and current disappointment )

    Will miss Ronspeak though
     
  22. Smudger105e

    Smudger105e Member

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    I thought he answered the questions put to him eloquently and calmly. If he had declined to answer the questions put to him, he would have been criticised for throwing his dummy or something similar. The guy can't win with some people...
     
  23. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    but that precious, cossetted, spoilt, whiny behaviour is exactly what makes him a champion.
     
  24. KashmireHawker

    KashmireHawker Member

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    Hoping this afternoon is just as good as the rest of the season has been; would of course a Hamilton win, but I have a feeling there maybe a surprise on the cards (a Kimi victory perhaps?!), along with Jo hopefully getting his 1st point/s is season!
     
  25. TheNewNo2

    TheNewNo2 Member

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    Palmer getting points? I think for that the entire rest of the field would need to be eliminated in a first lap crash with Palmer starting from the pits due to an engine failure, and even then he would likely retire from his 1 person race and score zero points for failing to reach the minimum distance required.
     
  26. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Hey, hey, Palmer actually managed Q3 this time before his own personal dose of luck kicked in!
     
  27. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    In the Netherlands there is a huge discussion why the car of Max Verstappen is garbage and his teammate is doing fine!
     
  28. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Said team-mate was quoted in the Daily Telegraph yesterday as saying it's because Max drives in a much more aggressive manner instead of pacing himself and really understanding the car..
     
  29. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    If you watch the press conference, it's said quite clearly in jest. I would point out that most Renault PU'd cars have had a pretty bad season for reliability. Generally they've all been on Friday or Saturday though, Max seems to be the only one having terminal issues on a Sunday
     
  30. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Ah, I don't watch the blurb before or after the races - I generally switch on about 10 minutes before the race and off again once they've all crossed the finish line...
     
  31. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Absolutely fantastic lap from Hamilton today, truly at the top of his game. And getting straight back into the car after enjoying a spot of Playstation with his teammate!

    Stroll and Ocon also did a brilliant job, Vandoorne too despite the usual "power loss" issues.
     

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