Formula 1

[Domh245]

If all bar one races get cancelled then it's no longer a world championship for starters!

 

[KashmireHawker]

If all bar one races get cancelled then it's no longer a world championship for starters!

Indeed, as 8 races need to be held for there to be a valid championship.

 

[Domh245]

And I see Bahrain and Vietnam have been called off now, and zandvoort is still very much in doubt. I saw something earlier suggesting that a 'backup' plan is being developed to start the season at Baku and try to fit some races into the summer break. Certainly will be interesting towards the end of the year with all the rescheduled events!

 

[3rd rail land]

And I see Bahrain and Vietnam have been called off now, and zandvoort is still very much in doubt. I saw something earlier suggesting that a 'backup' plan is being developed to start the season at Baku and try to fit some races into the summer break. Certainly will be interesting towards the end of the year with all the rescheduled events!

My understanding is that teams start preparing some aspects of a race weekend far in advance. For example they ship some stuff far in advance so it can travel by ship and save on shipping costs.I expect that teams won't be happy with the additional costs re-scheduling races will incur.

 

[Domh245]

My understanding is that teams start preparing some aspects of a race weekend far in advance. For example they ship some stuff far in advance so it can travel by ship and save on shipping costs.I expect that teams won't be happy with the additional costs re-scheduling races will incur.

For the fly-aways yes they ship stuff out months in advance, but odds are that anything that gets rearranged to happen in the summer shutdown would be a European race, so they just stick it on a lorry. Zandvoort and Catalunya would be the cancelled ones if they start it at Baku, so well within the scope of organising it short-term. Not to mention that it would be rescheduled for August, so plenty of time to get it sorted.

The real concern will be any cargo that's now stuck in China/Bahrain etc that was due to be sent to Canada/late season flyways

 

[LOL The Irony]

Everything until late May (so Monaco) is postponed.

 

[Domh245]

Everything until late May (so Monaco) is postponed.

Officially it's still only the first 3 (plus china) no? On the F1 website they're talking about resuming the season at the end of may and there's an article about the Spanish & Dutch GP promoters being in talks with FOM, so they might be hoping for Monaco as a first race

 

[Howardh]

My understanding is that teams start preparing some aspects of a race weekend far in advance. For example they ship some stuff far in advance so it can travel by ship and save on shipping costs.I expect that teams won't be happy with the additional costs re-scheduling races will incur.

Yes, in general what they do is have two lots of everything (for the corporate side, and general stuff) so they ship out lot (a) to the first venue, lot (b) to the second, then lot (a) to the third race etc, so there isn't a mad rush. The cars and parts though simply follow the races, so when there's a week between races it's a bit of a rush.

Frankly I think there are too many races, and would be better having two or three "Majors" (Monaco, Spa, maybe Melbourne) which always take place, and the rest goes bi-annually. Be a lot greener, and leave space to re-arrange abandoned GP's.

 

[Howardh]

Everything until late May (so Monaco) is postponed.

Monaco COULD be put back a week as the following w/e is free, and then they go to Baku.

 

[GB]

Monaco is such a boring race these days. Would be a blessing to see that canned.

 

[Domh245]

Monaco is such a boring race these days. Would be a blessing to see that canned.

Very true. And there'll be the end of the 24hours of the Nürburgring to watch, as well as the Indy500 later in the evening, so plenty of other exciting motor racing going on!

 

[Howardh]

Monaco is such a boring race these days. Would be a blessing to see that canned.

Agree. Should be kept on the calendar but not part of the championship, just an one-off like a cup final.

 

[gswindale]

Monaco won't happen this year.

The Dutch race will be slotted in in the Summer and probably either Bahrain or Vietnam towards the end of the season with Abu Dhabi shifted back a bit to retain its position as end of season.

Why? Apparently Monaco pays no hosting fees. Mad Max's popularity means F1 wants the Dutch to to happen and similarly the market in Vietnam makes that likely, but it's a street circuit, so Bahrain could fit nicely as a Middle East double header with Abu Dhabi.

 

[JamesRowden]

Monaco is such a boring race these days. Would be a blessing to see that canned.

My solution to that is:

• Remove the harbour front chicane.
• Add a DRS zone between the tunnel and tabac.
• Convert much of the area on the outside of tabac from stands to runoff for subsequent safety reasons.

 

[Howardh]

My solution to that is:

• Remove the harbour front chicane.
• Add a DRS zone between the tunnel and tabac.
• Convert much of the area on the outside of tabac from stands to runoff for subsequent safety reasons.

On leaving the tunnel it is possible to carry on in an almost straight line and rejoin the course further down rather than have that chicane. It seems bleedingly obvious on a map BUT I assume it's not been done for very good reasons, probably safety for drivers and spectators. I can't think of any other way round the overtaking issue other than to (is it?) blue flag the driver in front of the one behind is clearly going quicker (as Max was v Hamilton last year, although admittedly if Hamilton had been "forced" to allow Max to pass I don't think the 5 seconds penalty could have been made up) or has been on their tail for a certain amount of time.

 

[Domh245]

My solution to that is:

• Remove the harbour front chicane.
• Add a DRS zone between the tunnel and tabac.
• Convert much of the area on the outside of tabac from stands to runoff for subsequent safety reasons.

The area with the stands in it is a bit too late to be of any use as run off! From the ~apex of Tabac, you've got about 20 metres before you'e got buildings, a raised section and a wall (including the eponymous Tabac). It'll be interesting to see how it races in 2021 with the new cars though - theoretically it won't make much difference as the rules are primarily aero related and monaco is one of the least aero-critical circuits on the calendar, but given those cars should generally race better, there's every chance it'll be less processional

https://goo.gl/maps/MUDKGv1G4gZsYR3MA

On leaving the tunnel it is possible to carry on in an almost straight line and rejoin the course further down rather than have that chicane. It seems bleedingly obvious on a map BUT I assume it's not been done for very good reasons, probably safety for drivers and spectators. I can't think of any other way round the overtaking issue other than to (is it?) blue flag the driver in front of the one behind is clearly going quicker (as Max was v Hamilton last year, although admittedly if Hamilton had been "forced" to allow Max to pass I don't think the 5 seconds penalty could have been made up) or has been on their tail for a certain amount of time.

It'll be safety reasons. The chicane means they aren't as fast into Tabac and therefore any crash there is at lower speed into the barrier than would be the case if it was a clear run from Portier. Also, I can't remember last year's GP too well but unless the blue flag is for lapping a car, then I'm against using it. Letting someone through because they're faster goes against just about every principle of racing ('sprint' racing at least!)

 

[JamesRowden]

The area with the stands in it is a bit too late to be of any use as run off! From the ~apex of Tabac, you've got about 20 metres before you'e got buildings, a raised section and a wall (including the eponymous Tabac).

If so then give Monaco an ultimatum of knock down the buildings or lose the race.

 

[Howardh]

The area with the stands in it is a bit too late to be of any use as run off! From the ~apex of Tabac, you've got about 20 metres before you'e got buildings, a raised section and a wall (including the eponymous Tabac). It'll be interesting to see how it races in 2021 with the new cars though - theoretically it won't make much difference as the rules are primarily aero related and monaco is one of the least aero-critical circuits on the calendar, but given those cars should generally race better, there's every chance it'll be less processional

https://goo.gl/maps/MUDKGv1G4gZsYR3MA



It'll be safety reasons. The chicane means they aren't as fast into Tabac and therefore any crash there is at lower speed into the barrier than would be the case if it was a clear run from Portier. Also, I can't remember last year's GP too well but unless the blue flag is for lapping a car, then I'm against using it. Letting someone through because they're faster goes against just about every principle of racing ('sprint' racing at least!)

Only thinking of flagging for this one particular race, not all of them as preventing a faster car overtaking is all part of the game! But it would be in Monaco and F1's interest to make overtaking there easier; maybe flags for the last 10 laps or something, which could force the leaders to change tyres (ie a pit-stop) instead of holding everyone up on old ones knowing no-one can overtake.

 

[najaB]

If so then give Monaco an ultimatum of knock down the buildings or lose the race.

Then the race would go, seeing as the buildings have a use the other 51 weeks of the year.

 

[najaB]

maybe flags for the last 10 laps or something, which could force the leaders to change tyres (ie a pit-stop) instead of holding everyone up on old ones knowing no-one can overtake.

That could be the solution in itself: an enforced additional pitstop in the last 10 laps of the race.

 

[JamesRowden]

Then the race would go, seeing as the buildings have a use the other 51 weeks of the year.

Unless Monaco values its Grand Prix high enough.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That could be the solution in itself: an enforced additional pitstop in the last 10 laps of the race.

Alternative method, given that ( if I remember right ) refueling is coming back next year... make a rule saying that refueling and tyre changes cannot be done on the same pitstop.

That'll really get the strategy heads scratching...

 

[najaB]

Alternative method, given that ( if I remember right ) refueling is coming back next year...

I don't think that it is. I've not seen mention of it anywhere and I'd be surprised to see it from either a safety or environmental (i.e. fuel efficiency) point of view.

 

[Darandio]

Alternative method, given that ( if I remember right ) refueling is coming back next year... make a rule saying that refueling and tyre changes cannot be done on the same pitstop.

That'll really get the strategy heads scratching...

I don't think that it is. I've not seen mention of it anywhere and I'd be surprised to see it from either a safety or environmental (i.e. fuel efficiency) point of view.

It was discussed but dropped last year.

 

[najaB]

It was discussed but dropped last year.

Thanks. I was worried I might have missed something.

 

[LOL The Irony]

It was discussed but dropped last year.

On safety grounds I recall. See these videos:
Benneton removed a safety device to make fuel flow faster into the car, toasting Jos Verstappen (You need to a YouTube account to view)

Felipe Massa takes the refueling hose with him at the 2008 Singapore GP

 

[najaB]

On safety grounds I recall.

The discussion also focused on the fact that F1 is supposed to be the best automotive engineering available, so moving away from increased fuel efficiency by allowing refuelling would be sending the wrong message. The only way that refuelling plays into that ethos would be if the tanks were tiny - for example 30kg rather than the current 100kg.

 

[GB]

The discussion also focused on the fact that F1 is supposed to be the best automotive engineering available, so moving away from increased fuel efficiency by allowing refuelling would be sending the wrong message. The only way that refuelling plays into that ethos would be if the tanks were tiny - for example 30kg rather than the current 100kg.

That's how it used to be, smaller tanks requiring refuelling. At least drivers could push a lot longer without needing to manage the tyres...tyres that seem to fall off at the drop off a hat. I am aware of potential safety issues regarding refuelling (though I am sure the teams vetoed it more on cost) but how many unsafe releases have there been with wheels not being attached properly?

 

[Domh245]

It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. You can still have a maximum allowed fuel per race (monitored by the fuel flow meter now that nobody is allegedly gaming that system) but the fuel tank capacity is less than this, means you can get the advantages of a smaller tank (weight/handling) but whilst retaining the efficiency drive.

 

[najaB]

That's how it used to be, smaller tanks requiring refuelling. At least drivers could push a lot longer without needing to manage the tyres...tyres that seem to fall off at the drop off a hat. I am aware of potential safety issues regarding refuelling (though I am sure the teams vetoed it more on cost) but how many unsafe releases have there been with wheels not being attached properly?

Yes, but they would need to be very tiny so that one extra refuelling stops has a huge penalty. And even then it still doesn't "sound" as green. The difference being that there's no way to design tires that will last a whole GP but it is more that possible to get full distance on a single tank.