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Formula 1

Tetchytyke

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I was going to say other tyre companies are able to boast about their tyre performance with other racing series but then to be fair, those series allowing development and improvement whereas F1 technology is largely stagnant.

I wouldn't say F1 technology is stagnant at all. If it was we'd still be seeing the old V10s running around.

If Pirelli were asked to make a robust tyre they would do so- they have for other series- but then you'd have every race as a predictable one-stopper, like we did with Bridgestone.

As for other series, other than NASCAR none of them get the eyeballs that F1 does. Could anyone in the street tell me who won Le Mans last year without googling it?

It's all well and good to talk about removing restrictions in F1, but motorsport is primarily about entertainment. When series lose sight of that and allow costs to spiral, it always ends badly. Manufacturers won't spend the money if they're not winning, but when costs are astronomical you need manufacturer wallets to compete. If they're not winning, they get bored, and then you're stuffed. We saw this in F1 in the late-2000s, with Toyota, Honda and BMW all pulling out in quick succession; Brawn and Sauber barely survived, the Toyota team didn't.

DTM is pretty much a dead duck, with just BMW left, Supercars in Australia will go the same way when Holden go if they're not careful. The WTCC failed. I loved the SuperTouring era of the BTCC but it almost killed the series. LMP1 is abolished at the end of the year due to spiralling costs.
 
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RichT54

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Williams up for sale after £13m loss last year

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52847040

The company said in a statement that they were considering "various strategic options… including but not limited to raising new capital for the business, a divestment of a minority stake in Williams Grand Prix Holdings, or a divestment of a majority stake in WGPH including a potential sale of the whole company".

Given the current situation and the performance of the team in recent years, will anyone want to buy it?
 

Peter Mugridge

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I never even realised there was more to Williams - I had always thought it was just the team, full stop!!
 

37424

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Now the budget cap is coming in from next year, then potential investors are going to see the max they have to spend rather than potentially a bottomless pit if you want to be near the front, Of course how well it works remains to be seen but it may attract interest from more companies.

The downside of course they will have to wait awhile given they will now be using this years cars next year so whatever is at the front this year (Merc) will likely be at the front next year.
 

D365

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I never even realised there was more to Williams - I had always thought it was just the team, full stop!!

Williams diversified into other engineering sectors post-BMW, which I believe started with their flywheel KERS system in 2009 despite having never been run on the car. However I understand that their specialist engineering divisions have been spun off and sold in various stages since 2014.
 
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Mogster

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I'm sure they will, because it is a lot cheaper and a lot easier to buy an existing team than to set up a new one.

You have access to prize money within the existing framework also.

The Latifis would probably be first port of call, then the Mazepins, the Gelaels, maybe the Rausings.
 

Mogster

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Mostly people who want to get their offspring into F1

Aye, the superlicence system makes that much harder now though. F1 being what it is it’s good for the sport that we have people with large wads of disposable cash still interested.
 

Tetchytyke

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Aye, the superlicence system makes that much harder now though.

Definitely. You still need barrowloads of cash, but you also need some talent to go with it now. Lance Stroll almost certainly wouldn't have a drive without daddy owning the team, but he's not a bad driver.

I do miss the days of Taki Inoue, Jean-Paul Belmondo and Pedro Diniz though.
 

najaB

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Slightly disappointing that Spain is in but none of France (not a big loss, really), Germany or The Netherlands are in. :(
 

najaB

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Lance Stroll almost certainly wouldn't have a drive without daddy owning the team
Leave Lance alone, he doesn't deserve the hate that he gets. True, he hasn't yet demonstrated the potential of a young Vettel or Hamilton, but he really isn't a bad driver.

He won championships in 2014 (F4), 2015 (Toyota Racing Series) and 2016 (F3) and made a decent enough start win a truly woeful car in his first two years in F1.

 

Domh245

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Slightly disappointing that Spain is in but none of France (not a big loss, really), Germany or The Netherlands are in. :(

I think you're the first person I've seen mourning the loss of Paul Ricard! As for Germany/NL, germany was always going to be a long shot, much like Imola, as it wasn't on the calendar to begin with, and whilst NL insists that they cancelled because they wanted to ensure it was a race 'for the fans', I wouldn't be surprised if there were other logistical factors at play

Leave Lance alone, he doesn't deserve the hate that he gets. True, he hasn't yet demonstrated the potential of a young Vettel or Hamilton, but he really isn't a bad driver.

He won championships in 2014 (F4), 2015 (Toyota Racing Series) and 2016 (F3) and made a decent enough start win a truly woeful car in his first two years in F1.

I agree that whilst Lance isn't a Versatppen-esque brilliant talent, he is still entirely adequate as an F1 driver. He's certainly better than quite a few of the people currently in junior formulas (it somewhat feels like a lack of talent coming up through the ranks at the moment!)

And the Stroll-era Williams weren't that bad! The 2017 car (FW40) scored a podium (by merit of not dying, admittedly) and a P4 in qualifying (at a track that played to it's strengths), whilst the FW41 whilst not the quickest was at least generally competitive with the midfield!
 

Tetchytyke

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Leave Lance alone, he doesn't deserve the hate that he gets. True, he hasn't yet demonstrated the potential of a young Vettel or Hamilton, but he really isn't a bad driver.

He's not *bad*, don't get me wrong. You don't get a super licence if you are. But better than Esteban Ocon or Nico Hulkenberg? Nah. I'd even say Jolyon Palmer was better than him.

If daddy didn't own Racing Point there's no way he'd have a drive. He was out qualified 18-2 by Perez. He was out qualified 17-3 by Felipe Massa who, it's fair to say, was very much on the wane. Last year I'd say only Kubica was a worse driver.
 

Tetchytyke

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whilst NL insists that they cancelled because they wanted to ensure it was a race 'for the fans', I wouldn't be surprised if there were other logistical factors at play

I'd say money probably came into it. Silverstone has a smallish fee so F1 could afford to do without it, and Red Bull can always bankroll Austria.

I'm going to call it now that Zandvoort will be terrible for F1. It's far too narrow, the "new" bit of track is very twisty and overtaking will be almost impossible. It's not the speed monster it used to be, alas. It'll have a wonderful atmosphere though, the Dutch can party.
 

Domh245

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I'm going to call it now that Zandvoort will be terrible for F1. It's far too narrow, the "new" bit of track is very twisty and overtaking will be almost impossible. It's not the speed monster it used to be, alas. It'll have a wonderful atmosphere though, the Dutch can party.

That certainly seems to be the consensus - it's a good track for driving, and will be quite quick, but it'll be quite processional. So long as Max leads the procession home, I don't think the dutch fans will mind!
 

Tetchytyke

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it's a good track for driving, and will be quite quick, but it'll be quite processional

It won't be as bad as whatever the heck Tilke has designed in Vietnam though. It's like the Birmingham Superprix track but with none of the charm.
 

Mogster

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That certainly seems to be the consensus - it's a good track for driving, and will be quite quick, but it'll be quite processional. So long as Max leads the procession home, I don't think the dutch fans will mind!

I think there’s room for different sorts of track and F1 needs that variety, they cant race at Silverstone or Bahrain every other week it‘d be dull. A bit like Monaco Zandvoort should be a supreme driving challenge, Monaco qualy is one of my favourite F1 things, similarly Saturday afternoon for Maxfest should be seriously exiting. Old school balls out driving :D
 
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JohnMcL7

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Williams diversified into other engineering sectors post-BMW, which I believe started with their flywheel KERS system in 2009 despite having never been run on the car. However I understand that their specialist engineering divisions have been spun off and sold in various stages since 2014.

I hadn't realised until I think it was Top Gear highlighted that the Le Mans winning Audi R18 E-tron Quattro used a Williams KERS for the hybrid system.
 

Pete_uk

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Wasnt that the flywheel system? A good example of a team spending huge amount of money for no gain (in terms of their own team)
 

Mogster

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Wasnt that the flywheel system? A good example of a team spending huge amount of money for no gain (in terms of their own team)

Although an F1 dead end I thought the Williams hybrid tech they invented had found applications in road vehicles. It’s been used in some hybrid buses I seem to remember.
 

Domh245

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Although an F1 dead end I thought the Williams hybrid tech they invented had found applications in road vehicles. It’s been used in some hybrid buses I seem to remember.

Correct - was successfully sold off to GKN for £8million in 2014


Williams Grand Prix Holdings, parent of the Formula One team, has sold its hybrid power unit, which makes a flywheel that improves fuel economy in public transport, to GKN.
The British engineering company has paid £8m for Williams Hybrid Power, with further payments based on future sales and licences. Williams will receive a 3.5pc share of the company's sales over the next five years and 1.5pc for the five years after that.
Williams bought the start-up hybrid unit in 2010 for £1.5m after it helped it develop a flywheel that recouped energy from braking for its 2009 Formula One racing car that was driven by Nico Rosberg.
Since then the technology has been used to supply the energy storage system for Audi's Le Mans-winning car and developed for used in mass transport in the UK.
While still in the trial phase, with the technology currently be used in just one bus which operates in London, GKN said the aim was to get the technology across the UK by the end of the year.
The flywheel is designed to improve fuel economy of transport that is stop start by harvesting the energy that is normally lost as heat when braking and turning it into additional power.
Although relatively small in financial terms, the deal demonstrates the spin-off value of technologies created for the pinnacle of motorsport. For example, McLaren has worked with pharmaceutical giant GSK to improve the production of its toothbrush.
According to Mike O’Driscoll, chief executive at Williams, the flywheels could improve the fuel economy of a double-decker bus by 30pc.
Mr O’Driscoll said the decision to sell the company now was that Williams was not able to produce the technology for the mass market.
“Williams is a world class research and development organisation and we were able to develop and incubate the business over the last three to four year so it had commercial applications,” he said.
“But we are not able to produce these [flywheel] units in their thousands because we are not a production company. We are R&D.
“GKN have the resources and ability to develop the flywheel technology for use in public transport.”
Despite Williams Hybrid Power making a loss of £1m, Phil Swash, chief executive at GKN, said now was the right time to buy the company, which will be renamed GKN Hybrid Power, as he saw a space for it in the market and he plans to take it global
“This acquisition is a great opportunity for GKN to take a unique technology to global markets, helping solve the emissions and efficiency challenges faced by mass transit companies around the world,” he said.
"The first goal is to get the flywheel product in to service across the UK in buses by the end of the year,” Mr Swash said.
The company has been working with Go-Ahead to trial the energy-saving device in its buses, as well as Alstom, which operates trams, including in Nottingham.
Once the technology has been rolled out across the UK, Mr Swash said he would look to capitalise on that and start to look at moving further afield, such as Europe and Asia.
As part of the deal 50 employees from Williams Hybrid Power will move to GKN.
The company will remain based at Williams for the next six to nine months while GKN search for a location for the business, which is expected to be close to its current location in Oxfordshire.
“[The deal] also provides GKN with a unique set of engineering skills that we believe will help bring new innovation and performance to our wider product portfolio,” Mr Swash added.
 

JohnMcL7

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Wasnt that the flywheel system? A good example of a team spending huge amount of money for no gain (in terms of their own team)

That's always going to be the case with F1 when they're at the mercy of the rules rather than having the choice of using the technologies they want. Although the technology was eventually beaten by the Porsche battery system in the early hybrid Le Mans cars it worked extremely well giving the cars a solid boost over their diesel engines and still reliable unlike the early Toyota super capacitor and Porsche battery systems which were too unreliable.
 

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