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Fort George OO Gauge Scottish Terminus/Junction Layout

Iskra

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Fort George is a fictional layout based on a Scottish port town, loosely based on Fort William. It's the terminus of a secondary mainline, but also the starting point of a minor branch line, thus services connect into each other at Fort George, with some freight and through passenger trains also but these require shunt moves or another loco to drop onto the rear. There are no run-around facilities so loco operations are via shunt release, there is a small outshed to accommodate this. The layout is DCC with some loco's having sound. Traffic is passengers, the nightly sleeper, parcels, motorail, fish, whisky-related, fuel for the small depot, minerals and some military traffic. Currently the layout is 12 feet end to end in a straight line, but there are plans for a 4 foot extension in an L shape to allow me to run longer trains more realistically and to provide an extra couple of feet of scenic space.

The layout can run in two era's which both provide flexibility to run the stock I want; early/mid 1960's steam/diesel transition or 1996-2003. In the 1996-2003 the shed becomes a wagon repair facility instead.

This morning I've set up my Realtrack 156 and added the parts. It's a superb model and one that's very in keeping with my era/location. Thankfully, it was much easier to join the two units together than it is with Bachmann DMU's (excuse the bumpy platforms, my layout isn't flat as it's not pinned down yet, ladders are provided to passengers as required ;) )

Realtrack.jpg
 
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Cowley

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That’s great you’ve started a thread @Iskra. It’s an area of the world that I love and one day in the future I might have a go at modelling a part of Scotland because I reckon you could probably get a decent bit of scenery in with N gauge.
Also the variety of traffic you got around there was fascinating, things like a single class 20 on three coaches for instance.
 

Iskra

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That’s great you’ve started a thread @Iskra. It’s an area of the world that I love and one day in the future I might have a go at modelling a part of Scotland because I reckon you could probably get a decent bit of scenery in with N gauge.
Also the variety of traffic you got around there was fascinating, things like a single class 20 on three coaches for instance.
Yes, I actually considered doing something N gauge with my spare baseboard, but now I've decided it's getting added to the main layout. I'm just not sure I would be able manage with such a small scale, it can already be hard enough adding the detailing parts in OO. The extra 2ft I'm gaining is going to be more of a scenic part of the layout so hopefully I can do Scotland justice with it. Additionally, having an OO and N layout would be a bit much financially, with not being able to swap the stock between the two layouts like I can now with running two era's on one layout; there are some types I can convincingly operate in both era's on railtour's etc.

Yes, I totally agree and that's a big part of the attraction. Even nowadays Fort William retains a reasonable variety of services, with Caledonian Sleeper and WCRC providing Loco Hauled services. I saw a pic on twitter of a 20 running nose first on MK1's a few weeks back on the West Highland Line so I have no doubt that I will recreate that soon.
 

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Yes, I totally agree and that's a big part of the attraction. Even nowadays Fort William retains a reasonable variety of services, with Caledonian Sleeper and WCRC providing Loco Hauled services. I saw a pic on twitter of a 20 running nose first on MK1's a few weeks back on the West Highland Line so I have no doubt that I will recreate that soon.

Another thing that you used to get were mixed trains of a couple of coaches and a couple of fish vans. That’d be nice to recreate.
 

Iskra

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Another thing that you used to get were mixed trains of a couple of coaches and a couple of fish vans. That’d be nice to recreate.

Thank you. I'm going to get some reading material which will help me with more prototypical formations on the layout.
 

Cheshire Scot

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Another thing that you used to get were mixed trains of a couple of coaches and a couple of fish vans. That’d be nice to recreate.
The core freight traffic on the Mallaig mixed in the 70s/8os were (ESSO) oil tank wagons - fuel for the fishing fleet, and as noted sometimes hauled by a class 20. Normally two or three coaches and 2 tanks but on one occasion I saw it with two coaches and six oil tanks. On very odd occasions a van might be conveyed.

In an earlier era when fish vans were conveyed these were passenger trains rather than designated as mixed - some wagon types were stencilled XP which I understood to mean they could be conveyed on (express) passenger trains. Most short wheel base wagons were limited to 45mph, not a problem on the lines to Mallaig and Kyle with 40mph maximum line speeds.

There was also a mixed train to Kyle which conveyed parcel vans (also carrying mail and newspapers) and one passenger coach plus whatever freight was required on the day, mainly vans or sometimes coal.
 

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The core freight traffic on the Mallaig mixed in the 70s/8os were (ESSO) oil tank wagons - fuel for the fishing fleet, and as noted sometimes hauled by a class 20. Normally two or three coaches and 2 tanks but on one occasion I saw it with two coaches and six oil tanks. On very odd occasions a van might be conveyed.

In an earlier era when fish vans were conveyed these were passenger trains rather than designated as mixed - some wagon types were stencilled XP which I understood to mean they could be conveyed on (express) passenger trains. Most short wheel base wagons were limited to 45mph, not a problem on the lines to Mallaig and Kyle with 40mph maximum line speeds.

There was also a mixed train to Kyle which conveyed parcel vans (also carrying mail and newspapers) and one passenger coach plus whatever freight was required on the day, mainly vans or sometimes coal.
Thanks for that @Cheshire Scot, we had a thread a while back that touched on some of this. Have a look at the shot of 37261 in post #9 because it’s wonderful:
 

Iskra

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In an earlier era when fish vans were conveyed these were passenger trains rather than designated as mixed - some wagon types were stencilled XP which I understood to mean they could be conveyed on (express) passenger trains. Most short wheel base wagons were limited to 45mph, not a problem on the lines to Mallaig and Kyle with 40mph maximum line speeds.

There was also a mixed train to Kyle which conveyed parcel vans (also carrying mail and newspapers) and one passenger coach plus whatever freight was required on the day, mainly vans or sometimes coal.
I normally attach a fish van to my sleeper train, which runs nightly to St Pancras (to pander to my West Yorkshire/Sheffield connections), which I know to be prototypical even though the working is fictionally extended to Fort George. It seems I could do with a few more fish vans then.

I made a bit of a Kyle train which shows many of the livery variations that can feature on my layout in the BR period. Although not prototypical on the West Highland line, I do like the juxtaposition of Steam and BR Blue which was fairly common but rarely seems to be modelled, it's an eye catching combination I think.

MR.jpg

Thanks for that @Cheshire Scot, we had a thread a while back that touched on some of this. Have a look at the shot of 37261 in post #9 because it’s wonderful:

Thanks! I will have a good look at that thread.

I did some proper reading this week on the West Highland network, which was interesting (class 325's have been there!) and it seems I'm going to need a class 29. I also learnt that steam was gone in 1962 and 37's didn't come until a lot later although they were trialled earlier on, I've found at least one was allocated to a Glasgow shed in 1965 so that will have to be my excuse to run my BR Green one.
 

Peter C

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I normally attach a fish van to my sleeper train, which runs nightly to St Pancras (to pander to my West Yorkshire/Sheffield connections), which I know to be prototypical even though the working is fictionally extended to Fort George. It seems I could do with a few more fish vans then.

I made a bit of a Kyle train which shows many of the livery variations that can feature on my layout in the BR period. Although not prototypical on the West Highland line, I do like the juxtaposition of Steam and BR Blue which was fairly common but rarely seems to be modelled, it's an eye catching combination I think.

View attachment 88079



Thanks! I will have a good look at that thread.

I did some proper reading this week on the West Highland network, which was interesting (class 325's have been there!) and it seems I'm going to need a class 29. I also learnt that steam was gone in 1962 and 37's didn't come until a lot later although they were trialled earlier on, I've found at least one was allocated to a Glasgow shed in 1965 so that will have to be my excuse to run my BR Green one.
Without wanting to be rude by jumping in, I must say that the K1 (thanks Google) with the blue/grey coaches looks really good - I only realised a short while ago that steam actually ran with blue/grey stock for a while, if only a short period. And I always thought of blue/grey coming along way after the end of steam!

-Peter
 

Iskra

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Without wanting to be rude by jumping in, I must say that the K1 (thanks Google) with the blue/grey coaches looks really good - I only realised a short while ago that steam actually ran with blue/grey stock for a while, if only a short period. And I always thought of blue/grey coming along way after the end of steam!

-Peter
Not rude at all :) And yes, I did a double take a couple of months back watching a video of Scottish steam on youtube when I saw a BR standard with blue/grey coaches, which got me started down a rabbit hole... Yes, those were my misconceptions too! Although mine is not intended to be historically accurate, it's amazing how much a model railway can teach you!
 

Peter C

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Not rude at all :) And yes, I did a double take a couple of months back watching a video of Scottish steam on youtube when I saw a BR standard with blue/grey coaches, which got me started down a rabbit hole... Yes, those were my misconceptions too! Although mine is not intended to be historically accurate, it's amazing how much a model railway can teach you!
I always really enjoy finding out more about that period between the beginning of large-scale introduction of diesels and the end of steam as even seeing a couple of photos can tell you so many things - take the dreadful condition of the steam engines which were quite obviously run into the ground as an example of what the railways were like back then.
All trains interest me (though British trains mainly), but particularly those which are a bit different or odd - trains such as the one you've modelled would count in that category.

-Peter
 

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I suppose you’re looking at the class 27 era if it’s changeover (and 29s like you say) @Iskra. I can’t remember but have you got a Black 5 on the layout?
 

Cheshire Scot

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I did some proper reading this week on the West Highland network, which was interesting (class 325's have been there!) and it seems I'm going to need a class 29. I also learnt that steam was gone in 1962 and 37's didn't come until a lot later although they were trialled earlier on, I've found at least one was allocated to a Glasgow shed in 1965 so that will have to be my excuse to run my BR Green one.
There was some use of (obviously green) class 37s on West Highland freight circa 1968, I don't think it lasted very long. When they were re-introduced around 1980 the Civil Engineers were complaining about increased rail wear on the tight curves due to the centre axle on the three axle bogies so that may have been a factor although of course the steam locos were mainly 2-6-0 or 4-6-0 but perhaps had different impacts on the track.

To add variety for the late sixties era you could include some freightliner flats, but only with open/flat containers - there were no container lifting facilities and the containers were loaded with pulp and/or paper at Corpach (and sheeted) whilst still on the wagons. Much later container flats were used for a time for Aluminium traffic - again with loading taking place with the flat container on the wagon. .

Of course your location is fictional so you could convey different traffic (fish in refrigerated containers?), or even have a container terminal with cranes.

Edit: Thinking about it, the short Freightliner era in the late sixties may have been a trial, with traffic loaded overnight/morning running to Glasgow in the afternoon then south overnight on the 75mph Freightliner network to achieve next day arrivals in the Midlands, South East and South Wales which would not be achievable with the short wheelbase 45 mph wagons of the day but did become the norm when Speedlink was established in the seventies with modern air braked wagons. The use of cl37 on the Freightliner sets was probably driven by the need for air braked locos as that stage of the 27s were vacuum brake only. Early in the Speedlink era 4 x 27/0 were fitted with airbrakes for the then two daily air braked West Highland freight diagrams - with E&G 27/1 and 27/2 occasionally substituting - and many OBA wagons were outshopped new from Ashford Works and empty to Fort William to load for their maiden revenue earning journeys.
 
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Iskra

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I always really enjoy finding out more about that period between the beginning of large-scale introduction of diesels and the end of steam as even seeing a couple of photos can tell you so many things - take the dreadful condition of the steam engines which were quite obviously run into the ground as an example of what the railways were like back then.
All trains interest me (though British trains mainly), but particularly those which are a bit different or odd - trains such as the one you've modelled would count in that category.

-Peter
Yeah, I've got a couple of steam loco's that deliberately look a bit rough to portray that (see below). Yes I agree, I'm hoping to model a number of odd workings eventually.

I suppose you’re looking at the class 27 era if it’s changeover (and 29s like you say) @Iskra. I can’t remember but have you got a Black 5 on the layout?
I actually have a BR Green class 26 instead of a 27 due to experiencing some good thrash behind one on the NYMR a couple of years back (it's actually on the rear of the K1's rake above if you look carefully). Like yourself, I prefer loco's and classes that have a bit of a personal connection and most people wouldn't be able to notice the difference between those two classes anyway, so I think I can get away with it. Yes, I have a Hornby Railroad Black 5 fitted with sound, which works well historically and can fit in in more modern times on a 'Jacobite' type service too. There's a picture of 3/5 of my steam fleet below, with the K1 already posted, the only other is a Bachmann Jubilee that has yet to make it onto the layout as it's a bit too pristine. There's some cool new releases coming this year which could help my layout; a Standard Class 2 would be amazing which Hornby are releasing and there's a stunning looking updated Bachmann Jubilee coming, there's a version with the yellow stripe through the number to indicate it's not to run under OHLE. However, it will be one or the other not both I think looking at the asking prices.

Steam.jpg

There was some use of (obviously green) class 37s on West Highland freight circa 1968, I don't think it lasted very long. When they were re-introduced around 1980 the Civil Engineers were complaining about increased rail wear on the tight curves due to the centre axle on the three axle bogies so that may have been a factor although of course the steam locos were mainly 2-6-0 or 4-6-0 but perhaps had different impacts on the track.

To add variety for the late sixties era you could include some freightliner flats, but only with open/flat containers - there were no container lifting facilities and the containers were loaded with pulp and/or paper at Corpach (and sheeted) whilst still on the wagons. Much later container flats were used for a time for Aluminium traffic - again with loading taking place with the flat container on the wagon. .

Of course your location is fictional so you could convey different traffic (fish in refrigerated containers?), or even have a container terminal with cranes.

Edit: Thinking about it, the short Freightliner era in the late sixties may have been a trial, with traffic loaded overnight/morning running to Glasgow in the afternoon then south overnight on the 75mph Freightliner network to achieve next day arrivals in the Midlands, South East and South Wales which would not be achievable with the short wheelbase 45 mph wagons of the day but did become the norm when Speedlink was established in the seventies with modern air braked wagons. The use of cl37 on the Freightliner sets was probably driven by the need for air braked locos as that stage of the 27s were vacuum brake only. Early in the Speedlink era 4 x 27/0 were fitted with airbrakes for the then two daily air braked West Highland freight diagrams - with E&G 27/1 and 27/2 occasionally substituting - and many OBA wagons were outshopped new from Ashford Works and empty to Fort William to load for their maiden revenue earning journeys.
Thank you, I will look into 1960's container trains, there was an interesting thread on here not long back about steam on intermodal trains, so I will check that for inspiration. It's another one of those combinations that just seems odd, but is very interesting- a bit like when 9F's used to operate TTA tank oil trains. You have an excellent knowledge of WHL workings, thank you again for all the information you have provided :)
 

Peter C

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Yeah, I've got a couple of steam loco's that deliberately look a bit rough to portray that (see below). Yes I agree, I'm hoping to model a number of odd workings eventually.

View attachment 88140
Ah I love it! :) There's something both sad and really interesting to see an engine like that; sad as they were run into the ground, interesting because it shows attitudes towards steam (at least by those in control) as it approached 1968.

-Peter
 

Cheshire Scot

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I actually have a BR Green class 26 instead of a 27 due to experiencing some good thrash behind one on the NYMR a couple of years back (it's actually on the rear of the K1's rake above if you look carefully). Like yourself, I prefer loco's and classes that have a bit of a personal connection and most people wouldn't be able to notice the difference between those two classes anyway, so I think I can get away with it.
Class 26 did very occasionally appear on the West Highland (I recall seeing two instances over a nine year period and there may well have been many I did not see), also the occasional class 25.

Some other possibles:
A TPO van - whilst I am not aware of any history of TPO operation on in the West Highland, the Highland TPO did operate on the Far North line until the late 1960s and continued to operate between Inverness and Perth until the late 70s. Plus of course various van types BG, GUV, CCT etc conveying mail and parcels, GUVs also for Motorail.
A siding into a distillery - you don't need an actual distillery building, just a siding disappearing behind the 'Fort George Distillery' (or similar) boundary wall.
An oil siding for the local oil distributer as at e.g. Fort William, Connel Ferry, Oban and Lairg.
A high loading bank for loading of ballast wagons - tipped into the wagons by lorry from a local quarry as practiced at Corpach, Spean Bridge and Taynuilt
 

Iskra

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Ah I love it! :) There's something both sad and really interesting to see an engine like that; sad as they were run into the ground, interesting because it shows attitudes towards steam (at least by those in control) as it approached 1968.

-Peter
I agree. In fairness, it wasn't just steam. A lot of the diesels you see from back then are looking pretty grimy too. Is it neglect, or just the reality that there was still a lot of coal fired locomotives, industry and residences back then and railways were a dirty business?

Class 26 did very occasionally appear on the West Highland (I recall seeing two instances over a nine year period and there may well have been many I did not see), also the occasional class 25.

Some other possibles:
A TPO van - whilst I am not aware of any history of TPO operation on in the West Highland, the Highland TPO did operate on the Far North line until the late 1960s and continued to operate between Inverness and Perth until the late 70s. Plus of course various van types BG, GUV, CCT etc conveying mail and parcels, GUVs also for Motorail.
A siding into a distillery - you don't need an actual distillery building, just a siding disappearing behind the 'Fort George Distillery' (or similar) boundary wall.
An oil siding for the local oil distributer as at e.g. Fort William, Connel Ferry, Oban and Lairg.
A high loading bank for loading of ballast wagons - tipped into the wagons by lorry from a local quarry as practiced at Corpach, Spean Bridge and Taynuilt

Yes, I've read that 26's appeared, so I can just about get away with it.

I have a decent selection of parcels stock, so a TPO is a possible future extension of that and I do run one motorail service too (well, it usually follows the sleeper on a parcels service while the passengers wait and have breakfast).
A distillery is a strong possibility, I have a Metcalfe kit of one ready to go in the future and a short rake of 5 grain hoppers, plus some vans to simulate traffic in the opposite direction.
At least one oil wagon will feature to convey fuel to the small outshed. A full oil trains is a possibility in the future but not a priority in terms of expenditure.
Now a loading bank does sound interesting, I will have to have a look at some photo's.

The other area that I do draw some inspiration from is the Carlisle-Stranraer line, hence why I have a Jubilee and would like a Clan class. That's where the main idea of a terminus at the end of a secondary main line arose originally. Only when I started putting track down did I realise it was starting to look more like Fort William. Then, the idea of being a terminus station between a branch line and secondary mainline appealed due to the wide variety of traffic it could produce. So, I think the area I'm essentially modelling is what I would call 'The Scottish Periphery.' Which gives me a lot of license :) Thank you so much Cheshire Scot for your input.
 

Cheshire Scot

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At least one oil wagon will feature to convey fuel to the small outshed. A full oil trains is a possibility in the future but not a priority in terms of expenditure.
The oil depots in the Highlands tended to get a few wagons at a time as part of a mixed freight formation rather than full trains, so you can limit your expenditure!
 

Iskra

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The oil depots in the Highlands tended to get a few wagons at a time as part of a mixed freight formation rather than full trains, so you can limit your expenditure!
Haha, excellent advice!

I suppose I could probably get some timber traffic modelled too?
 

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I'm definitely planning on getting some OTA's with timber loads, they look nice, but I'm not sure what wagons would have been used in the late 50's or 60's.
I believe that timber traffic on the West Highland really started after the opening of the Corpach Pulp Mill in 1964, with loaded trains running from the site of the Callander & Oban station at Crianlarich. There's an excellent photo here of a train being loaded at Crianlarich in 1967, which gives a good view of the wagons originally used and some detail about them:
The wagons being loaded were specially converted for the West Highland Line in 1965 at Barassie Works for the pulp traffic to Corpach. The wagons known as 'Timber P's with code designated UUV. They lasted up until 1980 when the timber pulping plant at Corapch closed. None of the above wagons were preserved
There's a few more photos of early workings in the BR blue period with class 27s (So between your two eras, really) on the RMWeb thread here:
 

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I believe that timber traffic on the West Highland really started after the opening of the Corpach Pulp Mill in 1964, with loaded trains running from the site of the Callander & Oban station at Crianlarich. There's an excellent photo here of a train being loaded at Crianlarich in 1967, which gives a good view of the wagons originally used and some detail about them:

There's a few more photos of early workings in the BR blue period with class 27s (So between your two eras, really) on the RMWeb thread here:

Good work @sprinterguy.
I’ve no idea what designation those wagons are in the first photo but there’s some great detail there with loader etc.
 

Iskra

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I believe that timber traffic on the West Highland really started after the opening of the Corpach Pulp Mill in 1964, with loaded trains running from the site of the Callander & Oban station at Crianlarich. There's an excellent photo here of a train being loaded at Crianlarich in 1967, which gives a good view of the wagons originally used and some detail about them:

There's a few more photos of early workings in the BR blue period with class 27s (So between your two eras, really) on the RMWeb thread here:

Thank you, that's interesting information. I might just stick with getting the OTA's this year then. It's a close call whether it's in my era or not for the original wagons and they are going to be hard to replicate. If I do run early timber trains I may just use more generic bolsters and possibly attempt to insert cut-out end/mid panels to make them look similar to UUV's, but that will probably be much later down the line, but it would be nice to have the unique wagons :)
 

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Yeah, if it was me I'd just stick with the OTAs for now - They're certainly the wagons synonymous with West Highland timber traffic in my late nineties memories. Definitely a good idea to save the UUVs for a longer term project, seeing as they'd have to be scratchbuilt.
 

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Yeah, if it was me I'd just stick with the OTAs for now - They're certainly the wagons synonymous with West Highland timber traffic in my late nineties memories. Definitely a good idea to save the UUVs for a longer term project, seeing as they'd have to be scratchbuilt.
Just weather the hell out of them so you can’t tell what they are. ;)
 

Iskra

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Just weather the hell out of them so you can’t tell what they are. ;)
Yep, you can disguise anything with thick enough weathering haha.
...Which leads me nicely onto my current mini-project; these three are going to be my first attempt at weathering full items of rolling stock. They are seen below in original 'clean' state. They are probably about 20 years old each so fairly disposable if I get it horribly wrong. Today I dry-brushed Dulux Moka/Mocha paint onto the underframes. When I get a dry day, I will then attack them with Railmatch Sleeper Grime spray in the garden and finally try some powders to do the roofs. In the background you can see a very old brakevan which has been a weathering testbed for me and a spare piece of track that I've tried three different colours on for different parts of my layout.

weathering.jpg
 

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...Which leads me nicely onto my current mini-project; these three are going to be my first attempt at weathering full items of rolling stock. They are seen below in original 'clean' state. They are probably about 20 years old each so fairly disposable if I get it horribly wrong. Today I dry-brushed Dulux Moka/Mocha paint onto the underframes. When I get a dry day, I will then attack them with Railmatch Sleeper Grime spray in the garden and finally try some powders to do the roofs. In the background you can see a very old brakevan which has been a weathering testbed for me and a spare piece of track that I've tried three different colours on for different parts of my layout.

View attachment 88326
I love a weathered bit of rolling stock...
Sometimes even just getting a bit paint on and then wiping nearly all of it off so that some of it just highlights the detail does wonders for making something look a bit more used.
 

sprinterguy

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...Which leads me nicely onto my current mini-project; these three are going to be my first attempt at weathering full items of rolling stock. They are seen below in original 'clean' state. They are probably about 20 years old each so fairly disposable if I get it horribly wrong. Today I dry-brushed Dulux Moka/Mocha paint onto the underframes. When I get a dry day, I will then attack them with Railmatch Sleeper Grime spray in the garden and finally try some powders to do the roofs. In the background you can see a very old brakevan which has been a weathering testbed for me and a spare piece of track that I've tried three different colours on for different parts of my layout.
Funnily enough I dipped a toe into the world of rolling stock weathering for the first time in exactly the same way a couple of months ago: With an old brakevan (Of the same design, for that matter!) and a trio of vans, and a similar weathering process. I've found that Railmatch Sleeper Grime spray has a myriad of different uses around the layout!
 

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