Fratton depot shift roster

[43066]

I do see the commercial guard role as something that will be a good fit for me, I have a pretty extensive security and customer service background, plus I'm a very chilled level headed guy who doesn't go looking for trouble, I would always put safety first when dealing with any problematic situations.

On that basis you should consider going driving as soon as possible. Working as a guard would give you excellent safety critical railway experience and access to internal vacancies.

Alternatively you could apply directly for “off the street” trainee driver jobs either immediately, or once employed as a guard.

Definitely something to consider - as are the other guard roles a couple of others have suggested.

All the very best with your decision, and future railway career!

 

[Stigy]

I mis-worded that I think, they told me they are very conscious of fatigue and that if you are not appropriately rested you should not be performing safety critical duties so you would need to follow the procedure to be removed from your shift due to excess fatigue.

I appreciate everybody's honesty here, must admit I'm a little annoyed that the link system and shift timings wasnt covered in more depth in my interview but then I'm probably guilty myself of not asking about it in more depth rather than just assuming what the pattern would be.

I will have to give this some serious thought. My current situation is I really want out of my current job, I'm bored and jaded and frustrated with the treatment we get from management and I see no future in it, however I do work a 4 on 4 off pattern which provides a pretty good work/life balance, I also only work day shifts 0630-1830 or occasionally 0530-1730.
The commercial guard role is definitely something I could see myself being far more content doing for a living, the salary is almost double what I earn now plus the extra perks like free travel and the holiday entitlement is much better too, plus I like that SWR seem to value and reward their staff far more for the role they perform unlike my current employment where everything is about as bare minimum as you can get. I also feel the railways can offer me far more in terms of future progression.

I'm now 41 and definitely ready for a change and a career that will hopefully take me to retirement, I rarely do social activities during the week after work anyway so from that point of view the hours wont really affect my life, my concern as mentioned is how much time I will lose with my daughter, if she was older it wouldnt be such a issue but as shes 7 she still wants to be around her old man and I would hate for a job to have a negative effect on my relationship with her.

To add my input here; it’s a big step to make, but if I were you I’d not worry too much at this stage about the shifts. I’m not 100% sure what industry you’re in currently, but you referred to security in other posts so will assume it’s something along those lines? (Apologies if I’m completely wrong!). I did several years in security before I joined the railway 13 years ago and have never looked back. I went from earning £18k a year and a 60 hour week to about £22k a year and a 37 hour week. That doesn’t sound like a lot in terms of salary, but when you factor in far fewer hours in the working week and annual pay increases, I left the role this year on £35k salary.

I jumped ship from SWR to pursue a driving career with GWR and to me (not because I didn’t like the company, as I always found SWR a good place to work) the shifts look all over the place. Not being used to train crew shifts, my standard 0800-1715 for two weeks, then 1545-0100 for four days over two weeks on a 4-week roster was a walk in the park compared to what I get now (I wasn’t train crew though). It’s not as bad as SWR’s pattern as has been indicated, but it’s still very much a culture shock finishing at say 2300hrs on a Monday evening, having Tuesday off and back at 0600hrs ish on the Wednesday. It doesn’t happen all the time, but when it does, you can feel it.

As you probably know, railway jobs are so difficult to get in the first place, so bear in mind if you reject this one, you may not get another chance. I have two young children and still find I have time at home and a decent enough work/life balance. Doubling your salary will no doubt make your quality of life more comfortable too I’d imagine?

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Chris1978]

To add my input here; it’s a big step to make, but if I were you I’d not worry too much at this stage about the shifts. I’m not 100% sure what industry you’re in currently, but you referred to security in other posts so will assume it’s something along those lines? (Apologies if I’m completely wrong!). I did several years in security before I joined the railway 13 years ago and have never looked back. I went from earning £18k a year and a 60 hour week to about £22k a year and a 37 hour week. That doesn’t sound like a lot in terms of salary, but when you factor in far fewer hours in the working week and annual pay increases, I left the role this year on £35k salary.

I jumped ship from SWR to pursue a driving career with GWR and to me (not because I didn’t like the company, as I always found SWR a good place to work) the shifts look all over the place. Not being used to train crew shifts, my standard 0800-1715 for two weeks, then 1545-0100 for four days over two weeks on a 4-week roster was a walk in the park compared to what I get now (I wasn’t train crew though). It’s not as bad as SWR’s pattern as has been indicated, but it’s still very much a culture shock finishing at say 2300hrs on a Monday evening, having Tuesday off and back at 0600hrs ish on the Wednesday. It doesn’t happen all the time, but when it does, you can feel it.

As you probably know, railway jobs are so difficult to get in the first place, so bear in mind if you reject this one, you may not get another chance. I have two young children and still find I have time at home and a decent enough work/life balance. Doubling your salary will no doubt make your quality of life more comfortable too I’d imagine?

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Thanks mate that's given me a bit of reassurance.

I'm still in corporate security now, I've been in the industry for 16 years off and on including a spell in management, so I've worked every shift pattern imaginable and done everything from days, nights, earlies, lates, weekends, bank holidays and started and finished shifts at some ridiculous times, so the railway shift system shouldn't be a culture shock to me.

As I've mentioned I dont see a future for myself in security, I'm very jaded with the industry and get no satisfaction from my current job, but the one advantage I do have is I currently work 4 on 4 off day shifts only which is why I'm a little reluctant to go back to a more varied pattern where I'm bouncing from earlies to lates and back constantly. I've also got used to coming home to my family each evening which is obviously something that will change with SWR with the regular late finishes.

All that said it's very much a pros and cons situation, I realise that SWR can provide me a much better future in terms of financial stability/standard of living as well as career prospects, also the SWR link system is said to average 42 hours per week which is the same as what I average on my 4 on 4 off security pattern so over a month I wont be working any more hours, I will be working more days but on working days I'll get more time at home than I currently do working 12 hour shifts.
The SWR holiday entitlement is much more generous as well, I currently only accrue 20 days per year on my basic hours.

So all in all I know moving to the railways is the right decision it'll just take some adjustment. I wouldn't be against the shift pattern at all if there was more of a balance, say working 2 earlies, 2 middle shifts, 2 lates then 2/3 off or something similar, it just looks pretty brutal when you have a stretch of 7 lates then 2 off then up at daft o clock for a early.

 

[Stigy]

Thanks mate that's given me a bit of reassurance.

I'm still in corporate security now, I've been in the industry for 16 years off and on including a spell in management, so I've worked every shift pattern imaginable and done everything from days, nights, earlies, lates, weekends, bank holidays and started and finished shifts at some ridiculous times, so the railway shift system shouldn't be a culture shock to me.

As I've mentioned I dont see a future for myself in security, I'm very jaded with the industry and get no satisfaction from my current job, but the one advantage I do have is I currently work 4 on 4 off day shifts only which is why I'm a little reluctant to go back to a more varied pattern where I'm bouncing from earlies to lates and back constantly. I've also got used to coming home to my family each evening which is obviously something that will change with SWR with the regular late finishes.

All that said it's very much a pros and cons situation, I realise that SWR can provide me a much better future in terms of financial stability/standard of living as well as career prospects, also the SWR link system is said to average 42 hours per week which is the same as what I average on my 4 on 4 off security pattern so over a month I wont be working any more hours, I will be working more days but on working days I'll get more time at home than I currently do working 12 hour shifts.
The SWR holiday entitlement is much more generous as well, I currently only accrue 20 days per year on my basic hours.

So all in all I know moving to the railways is the right decision it'll just take some adjustment. I wouldn't be against the shift pattern at all if there was more of a balance, say working 2 earlies, 2 middle shifts, 2 lates then 2/3 off or something similar, it just looks pretty brutal when you have a stretch of 7 lates then 2 off then up at daft o clock for a early.

You’ll also get every Christmas Day and Boxing Day off on the railway. Not sure if you do already (being in corporate security), but I know most security is a 24/7, 365 operation. Admittedly it’ll come out of your annual leave entitlement if you’re rostered to work though...

I miss certain aspects of security, but don’t miss how I was treated or the low wages (although at the time it was still more than the min wage). I understand where you’re coming from in terms of not being satisfied in your job, definitely. I remember when SIA licensing was introduced we were promised a far better, fairer industry to work in. Which never happened.

As others have (as have you I believe), once you’re on the railway there’s so many other avenues you could explore if the shifts aren’t working out. You have management experience too, which could hold you in good stead. You just have to put up with it until the opportunities present themselves and ‘make do’ on your £40k+ a year!

 

[Chris1978]

You’ll also get every Christmas Day and Boxing Day off on the railway. Not sure if you do already (being in corporate security), but I know most security is a 24/7, 365 operation. Admittedly it’ll come out of your annual leave entitlement if you’re rostered to work though...

I miss certain aspects of security, but don’t miss how I was treated or the low wages (although at the time it was still more than the min wage). I understand where you’re coming from in terms of not being satisfied in your job, definitely. I remember when SIA licensing was introduced we were promised a far better, fairer industry to work in. Which never happened.

As others have (as have you I believe), once you’re on the railway there’s so many other avenues you could explore if the shifts aren’t working out. You have management experience too, which could hold you in good stead. You just have to put up with it until the opportunities present themselves and ‘make do’ on your £40k+ a year!

The frustration for me in security is the way you are treated, companies dont treat you with any value or respect it's like you dont matter. Your employment terms and conditions are as bare minimum as you can get, no extra pay for the constant unsocial hours, no extra pay for overtime which is constantly expected of you, no perks or bonuses, even holiday has been trimmed right down to 20 days per year where I am, this is because we work 4 on 4 off but that seems very harsh to me as we still average 42 hours per week and are expected to work all weekends and bank holidays where rostered.
Job prospects are very limited, the real problem for me is that I did progress to site manager at my last job a position which was unfortunately made redundant due to budget cuts after 3 years which forced me back into a basic guard role and now I find myself feeling very jaded and unsatisfied as I just feel like I'm better than what I'm doing.

I know part of the SWR holiday entitlement are ad hoc days so would I be right in thinking I could book myself a few extra Saturdays or Sundays off through the year?

 

[pompeyfan]

Holiday entitlement is 5 weeks allocated (1 spring, 2 summer, 1 autumn and 1 winter) and then 8 days adhoc to cover bank holidays. Sunday’s can be taken as unpaid depending on depot coverage. Good luck getting a Saturday off at short notice though. Depot quota I think is about 4 for saturdays, but these tend to get blocked out/requested very early on.

 

[Chris1978]

Holiday entitlement is 5 weeks allocated (1 spring, 2 summer, 1 autumn and 1 winter) and then 8 days adhoc to cover bank holidays. Sunday’s can be taken as unpaid depending on depot coverage. Good luck getting a Saturday off at short notice though. Depot quota I think is about 4 for saturdays, but these tend to get blocked out/requested very early on.

Is there a limit on how many unpaid days you can take? I mean I would be happy to take a extra Sunday off unpaid fairly regularly as the generous salary more than affords dropping a day here and there.

They mentioned the holiday being rostered but as I understand they will allow you to move it around within reason, for example if I wanted 2 weeks in the spring is that something that would present a problem? Also what about time off over the Christmas and new year period are there any restrictions on that?

 

[Stigy]

Is there a limit on how many unpaid days you can take? I mean I would be happy to take a extra Sunday off unpaid fairly regularly as the generous salary more than affords dropping a day here and there.

They mentioned the holiday being rostered but as I understand they will allow you to move it around within reason, for example if I wanted 2 weeks in the spring is that something that would present a problem? Also what about time off over the Christmas and new year period are there any restrictions on that?

You should be able to swap with somebody else who wants the block you’ve been allocated. You should also be granted any leave you have booked prior to starting if you made them aware of it? You will get Xmas day and Boxing Day day off because the railway basically closes down at about 2100 on Xmas eve and doesn’t resume until early on 27th. If you’d ordinarily be rosters on these days, you’ll have to take that out of your leave entitlement (assuming it’s the same for Guards as in other grades).

 

[pompeyfan]

Guards at SWR gain paid leave if they’re rostered to work Christmas Day and Boxing Day, it does not come out of their AL entitlement. If there is a vacancy (block available) over Christmas week then you’d be untitled to request your leave moved to that week, but it would be rarer than hens teeth. Getting leave moved between seasons requires management approval but it’s usually just a case of pinging a group email, and certainly shouldn’t mean you accepting the job offer hinges on it. I don’t think there’s a limit to the amount of unpaid sundays you can request, as long as their is suitable cover available ie not high levels of sickness, special events, engineering works which require a specific depot to work more trains (thinking Byfleet curve for Woking, Winchester block for Fratton etc)

 

[Chris1978]

So when you say rostered leave does that actually mean certain dates are chosen for you? I thought it was more a periodic thing where you get to select a certain amount of time off within a certain time period subject to demand/availability?

If it is a case of your leave dates being selected for you is it relatively easy to get them changed to dates you want or are these kinds of requests normally declined? To be honest this could be a deal breaker for me as I need to be able to take the bulk of my leave during school holidays.

 

[pompeyfan]

You are allocated 1 week in each season with the exception of summer where you get 2 consecutive weeks allocated to you, this is on a rotational basis over about 8 years. Leave can be moved to any week with slots available or can exchanged between guards. I’d say there’s a pretty likely chance that for every person that needs leave during school holidays, there’s an equal amount of older staff that want nothing to do with school holidays.

 

[MiNi]

So when you say rostered leave does that actually mean certain dates are chosen for you? I thought it was more a periodic thing where you get to select a certain amount of time off within a certain time period subject to demand/availability?

If it is a case of your leave dates being selected for you is it relatively easy to get them changed to dates you want or are these kinds of requests normally declined? To be honest this could be a deal breaker for me as I need to be able to take the bulk of my leave during school holidays.

Don't be too hasty in your decision Chris as you have worked hard to get this far. I know that you are worried about missing your child growing up but with your new salary you will be able to spoil him more than you can now when you do spend time with him.I would have thought that some older guards would rather work than be in town with lots of screaming children. And would swap with you.

 

[Chris1978]

You are allocated 1 week in each season with the exception of summer where you get 2 consecutive weeks allocated to you, this is on a rotational basis over about 8 years. Leave can be moved to any week with slots available or can exchanged between guards. I’d say there’s a pretty likely chance that for every person that needs leave during school holidays, there’s an equal amount of older staff that want nothing to do with school holidays.

So in your experience is it fairly easy to get the holiday dates you want more often than not? I have pre-warned them of dates I have booked for next year in May and August.

Don't be too hasty in your decision Chris as you have worked hard to get this far. I know that you are worried about missing your child growing up but with your new salary you will be able to spoil him more than you can now when you do spend time with him.I would have thought that some older guards would rather work than be in town with lots of screaming children. And would swap with you.

Thanks mate. I think it's a case of I've got very used to working 4 on 4 off and I dont tend to do much overtime so I'm home with my family pretty much 50% of the days of each month, so it will be hard to go from that to what looks quite a brutal shift roster, but I know that there is a lot that will compensate for that.

I will definitely give this a shot at least and if the hours are too hard on my family life I will simply look to make a change and worst case I've at least gained some rail experience.
What I plan to do is to go through the projected roster thoroughly and work out how much it will really effect my home life over the course of a month, knowing I can request a extra Sunday off is something at least.

 

[Chris1978]

I don’t think there’s a limit to the amount of unpaid sundays you can request, as long as their is suitable cover available ie not high levels of sickness, special events, engineering works which require a specific depot to work more trains (thinking Byfleet curve for Woking, Winchester block for Fratton etc)

So in theory I could request one extra Sunday off per month if I wished? Not saying I would do that but interesting to know it's a option.
It's a shame the union havent seen the working hours as more of a priority, I personally would have preferred a slightly reduced salary for better working hours, I know I'm probably in the minority on that as most people prioritise salary above everything.
Shame that they dont have a option for perhaps a 35 hour week rather than a 42 as that would definitely be my preference.

 

[Stigy]

So in theory I could request one extra Sunday off per month if I wished? Not saying I would do that but interesting to know it's a option.
It's a shame the union havent seen the working hours as more of a priority, I personally would have preferred a slightly reduced salary for better working hours, I know I'm probably in the minority on that as most people prioritise salary above everything.
Shame that they dont have a option for perhaps a 35 hour week rather than a 42 as that would definitely be my preference.

Once you’ve been a guard for a while, apply for driver. They’re on 35 hr weeks at SWR and you’ll be well placed to apply as you’ll have some great safety critical experiences to draw upon.

 

[Chris1978]

Once you’ve been a guard for a while, apply for driver. They’re on 35 hr weeks at SWR and you’ll be well placed to apply as you’ll have some great safety critical experiences to draw upon.

Definitely something to think about, it's more the kind of hours I want for sure. I'll see how I settle into life as a guard and go from there.