Free at ticket office but £10 + £2 postage because I bought from EMT onine

[suzanneparis]

Was meant to be travelling to London tomorrow from Leicester. Booked a super off peak return with EMT online and collected tickets from machines.

Due to illness I now have to travel down on Wednesday - a day later. So my outward ticket is not valid (is that correct).

I went to ticket office and they said if I had bought it from them it would have been free to make one change. But they couldn't do it as bought online from EMT.

Phoned EMT and they are charging £10 and expecting the tickets to be posted back to them recorded delivery (about £2). Total £12 costs.

Is this all correct??

IF so then I shall not buy my tickets online from EMT ever again. I shall go to the ticket office and buy them.

Thanks for any help advice on the above.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fee would apply to the ticket office too, so it's only costing you extra for the postage.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Was meant to be travelling to London tomorrow from Leicester. Booked a super off peak return with EMT online and collected tickets from machines.

Due to illness I now have to travel down on Wednesday - a day later. So my outward ticket is not valid (is that correct).

I went to ticket office and they said if I had bought it from them it would have been free to make one change. But they couldn't do it as bought online from EMT.

Phoned EMT and they are charging £10 and expecting the tickets to be posted back to them recorded delivery (about £2). Total £12 costs.

Is this all correct??

IF so then I shall not buy my tickets online from EMT ever again. I shall go to the ticket office and buy them.

Thanks for any help advice on the above.

Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak Single and Return tickets (i.e. the Period Single/Return kind, not the Day Single/Return kind) are valid to travel on the outbound leg until 04:29 on the third day of issue. So in other words - your ticket remains valid for travel tomorrow.

If you send tickets in the post by regular first or second class mail and obtain proof of postage (i.e. at a Post Office), Royal Mail will reimburse you up to £20 if the item is lost or otherwise not delivered. If you used Signed For, the limit is £50. And if you want it insured to a greater value you'll need to pay extra for that.

The 'requirement' to use recorded delivery doesn't exist as such; it's probably just that they are advising you that they aren't liable for the tickets being lost in the post, and that, due to the value of the tickets, you will need to use the recorded delivery service to be eligible for compensation to the value of the tickets if they are indeed lost.

Any loss that occurs once the tickets have been successfully delivered is on EMT.

As you say, there is a distinct advantage to booking at the ticket office in a case such as this. However, there are also disadvantages; for example that, if you only buy a ticket on the day of travel, most train companies will not enable ticket offices to make reservations for the same day's trains. This is sometimes still possible if booking online. And furthermore, if there is a risk that the timetable may change, that strikes may occur or similar, if you book in advance you have a guaranteed right to travel. If you simply turn up on the day without a ticket you might be entirely unable to travel.

There are some retailers who will refund a flexible (i.e. non-Advance) ticket without a fee if it has yet to be collected from the ticket machine. Southern (and their other brands) are one example of such a retailer, and this is the reason I will sometimes use their website to book flexible tickets if I am not sure I will travel (much as I am loathe to the thought of them getting the commission for the sale!).

 

[gray1404]

In order to use the outward portion on day 2, does the OP not need to at least start their journey (even if just going one stop) on day 1 and do an overnight break of journey. I believe it would only be the anytime ticket that would allow the journey to be started from the starting station on day 2, not a Super Off Peak Return.

Also, Royal Mail will not compensate for lost tickets sent in regular the post up to £20. I have tried claiming on this basis and was advised that the compensation will not cover things like tickets or cash and I should use Special Delivery. They did however give me a book of 6 x basic first class stamps and I was lucky that my tickets did turn up in the end some weeks later. The TOC concerned still processed the refund too.

 

[suzanneparis]

Bletchleyite

The ticket office said they could make one change for free. Not incurring the £10 fee. So, yes it is different than online which is costing £12.

For the love of.
Forgive me but I do not understand what you are saying.
The ticket is a super off peak return. with the outward date printed on the ticket at Tuesday 20 November. Could i still use this on Wednesday morning at 10.25am departure from leicester?

Thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bletchleyite

The ticket office said they could make one change for free. Not incurring the £10 fee. So, yes it is different than online which is costing £12.

I do not believe the ticket office were correct in saying this. They can do a non-issue for a short period after sale, but that's different.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak Single and Return tickets (i.e. the Period Single/Return kind, not the Day Single/Return kind) are valid to travel on the outbound leg until 04:29 on the third day of issue. So in other words - your ticket remains valid for travel tomorrow.

This is incorrect. Break of Journey is permitted "if the passenger cannot complete the journey on day 1" or somesuch. There is rather a lot of debate as to what this means, but as an absolute minimum (and expect arguments anyway) you would need to have started the journey on the ticket's printed day of validity, and you would do well to have some evidence of having done this because otherwise you will almost certainly be refused travel.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

In order to use the outward portion on day 2, does the OP not need to at least start their journey (even if just going one stop) on day 1 and do an overnight break of journey. I believe it would only be the anytime ticket that would allow the journey to be started from the starting station on day 2, not a Super Off Peak Return.

Also, Royal Mail will not compensate for lost tickets sent in regular the post up to £20. I have tried claiming on this basis and was advised that the compensation will not cover things like tickets or cash and I should use Special Delivery. They did however give me a book of 6 x basic first class stamps.

A requirement to start the journey used to exist. It no longer does.

I have thoroughly read through the relevant sections of Royal Mail's Retail Postal Scheme (the equivalent of their terms) and have found no mention of where tickets are excluded from compensation. Valuables, specifically mentioned as being articles in the nature of money or jewellery, are not covered. But tickets are not valuables (unless they are some kind of collectable item).

 

[suzanneparis]

The thing I takeaway from this is to buy my tickets as close to departure as possible if I am buying tickets such as super off peak return to london.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A requirement to start the journey used to exist. It no longer does.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46590.aspx

Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak

tickets are valid for travel on the date shown on your ticket and until 04:29 on the following day.

Off-Peak Singles and the outward portion of Off-Peak Returns are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following morning. If the journey cannot be completed in this time, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day. Unless otherwise indicated in the relevant restriction code, time restrictions apply as from the initial origin station on both days. The appropriate restrictions for the actual day on which travel is being undertaken apply (for example, it may be that if day 1 is on Sunday, no restrictions apply, but on day 2, the Monday-Friday restrictions apply). All travel must be completed by 04:29 in the morning after this second day. Please note that break of journey is not permitted on some journeys, as detailed in the ticket restrictions.

I believe it was the case that the requirement to start also applied to Anytime tickets, but that was changed - not Off Peak.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The thing I takeaway from this is to buy my tickets as close to departure as possible if I am buying tickets such as super off peak return to london.

If you require a walk-up ticket of any kind and do not require a seat reservation, it is best to buy them immediately before travel, yes.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

This is incorrect. Break of Journey is permitted "if the passenger cannot complete the journey on day 1" or somesuch. There is rather a lot of debate as to what this means, but as an absolute minimum (and expect arguments anyway) you would need to have started the journey on the ticket's printed day of validity, and you would do well to have some evidence of having done this because otherwise you will almost certainly be refused travel.

There is no requirement that the journey is 'not possible' to make in one day in order for the outbound journey to be occur over multiple days. It is the contractual right of the holder of every Super Off-Peak and Off-Peak Single or Return ticket to use the outward portion up until 04:29 on the third day of validity. After all, they could well have decided to start their journey on the last train of the day on the first day, and then to continue their journey on the second day.

I will concede that it is necessary to start the journey on the first day, but this merely means that you can't use the ticket until the first stop on the way towards London in this case. The ticket is valid thenceforth.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is no requirement that the journey is 'not possible' to make in one day in order for the outbound journey to be occur over multiple days. It is the contractual right of the holder of every Super Off-Peak and Off-Peak Single or Return ticket to use the outward portion up until 04:29 on the third day of validity.

Only if they have started it on day one (up to 0429 on day two). Note "continue the journey", not "begin the journey".

 

[suzanneparis]

So.... does this mean that I could use the ticket some time tomorrow to travel from Leicester to Market Harborough. Then on Wednesday travel from Market Harborough to London (but it would be after 04.29)??

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Only if they have started it on day one (up to 0429 on day two). Note "continue the journey", not "begin the journey".

That is not what the terms say. They say that the passenger "cannot complete" the journey on day 1. It would be entirely impossible for the company to reject the ticket on the basis that the passenger could not show that they had started their journey.

For the love of.
Forgive me but I do not understand what you are saying.
The ticket is a super off peak return. with the outward date printed on the ticket at Tuesday 20 November. Could i still use this on Wednesday morning at 10.25am departure from leicester?

Not on the 10:26 departure (I assume that is what you meant), as that is non-stop from Leicester. If you take the 10:38, however, or the 10:13, you could use it from Market Harborough onwards (which is the first stop of those trains), if you bought a ticket to Market Harborough. A single to Market Harborough would cost £10.60, or £7.00 with a Railcard.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

So.... does this mean that I could use the ticket some time tomorrow to travel from Leicester to Market Harborough. Then on Wednesday travel from Market Harborough to London (but it would be after 04.29)??

Exactly, yes. That would be the only option that doesn't cost anything extra.

 

[gray1404]

So.... does this mean that I could use the ticket some time tomorrow to travel from Leicester to Market Harborough. Then on Wednesday travel from Market Harborough to London (but it would be after 04.29)??

That would be fine if you commenced travel from Market Harborough on day 2. (Strictly speaking you should have travelled from Leicester to Market Harborough on day 1 but I do not think there is any way of proving this.) The outward portion is valid until 0429 on day 3 - not day 2.

 

[gray1404]

A requirement to start the journey used to exist. It no longer does.

I have thoroughly read through the relevant sections of Royal Mail's Retail Postal Scheme (the equivalent of their terms) and have found no mention of where tickets are excluded from compensation. Valuables, specifically mentioned as being articles in the nature of money or jewellery, are not covered. But tickets are not valuables (unless they are some kind of collectable item).

I was not aware that the requirement no longer exists to start a journey on day 1. When did this change occur and where is it documented?

I really wish now that I had have taken my complaint further with Royal Mail and cited their conditions. From memory their reply said something like "valuables such as tickets or cash should not be sent through regular post." If Royal Mail are incorrectly denying claims for lost tickets then that is wrong. The thing was as the tickets then turned up with the TOC later on I no longer needed to carry forward my complaint with Royal Mail. I did have proof of posting by the way. It is not even possible to do a test claim with Royal Mail for tickets as in order to claim again, and take it forward, some train tickets would genuinely have to go missing in the post.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I was not aware that the requirement no longer exists to start a journey on day 1. When did this change occur and where is it documented?

I really wish now that I had have taken my complaint further with Royal Mail and cited their conditions. From memory their reply said something like "valuables such as tickets or cash should not be sent through regular post." If Royal Mail are incorrectly denying claims for lost tickets then that is wrong. The thing was as the tickets then turned up with the TOC later on I no longer needed to carry forward my complaint with Royal Mail. I did have proof of posting by the way. It is not even possible to do a test claim with Royal Mail for tickets as in order to claim again, and take it forward, some train tickets would genuinely have to go missing in the post.

I think there are mixed stories about this and it is unclear whether or not that change is in place.

 

[Wallsendmag]

If you buy from A LNER Ticket Office and go to the same office for a refund before the travel date there is no refund charge on walkup tickets .

 

[RJ]

The fee would apply to the ticket office too, so it's only costing you extra for the postage.

I do not believe the ticket office were correct in saying this. They can do a non-issue for a short period after sale, but that's different.

Not necessarily. I often waive the fee for things advertised as having a fee where I am if the ticket was bought from the station, but this is discretionary.

If the tickets are bought elsewhere the same concessions are not extended unless policy requires it.

 

[AnkleBoots]

(Strictly speaking you should have travelled from Leicester to Market Harborough on day 1 but I do not think there is any way of proving this.)

The fact she would be on the same southbound train before and after stopping at Market H would be a big clue that she had not spent the night at Market H..

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The fact she would be on the same southbound train before and after stopping at Market H would be a big clue that she had not spent the night at Market H..

Unless there were a check both before and after Market H, that would be difficult to discover. And even then, what is to say the passenger didn't travel down to Market H and make their own way back to Leicester?

Any attempt at rejecting the ticket is fraught with difficulties in terms of evidence and practicality.

 

[causton]

Some ticket offices non-issue walk-up tickets before the date of travel without too much fuss (I know I would!) and it is mentioned in the NRE internal Knowledgebase that discretion may be given by certain TOCs.

 

[gray1404]

I really would not recommend getting the same train. However, making their own way to Market Harborough could be possible (be that on an earlier train with a single or otherwise).

 

[Jonfun]

I honestly don't know how much clearer the railway can make the phrase "tickets are valid for travel on the date shown on your ticket and until 04:29 on the following day".

As a concession, recognising that somebody making a long journey might not be able to do that in one day, the railway allows you to continue your journey the next day if required, which seems perfectly fair to me. In order to be "continuing" your journey, it stands to logical reason that your journey must already have begun, otherwise you wouldn't be continuing it, you'd be starting it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is not what the terms say.

It is, I quoted them upthread. It says the passenger may continue it on day two. You can't "continue" something you have not started.

You may be thinking of the Anytime Single, which is valid 2 days at the passenger's full discretion, i.e. they may start their journey at any time on day 1, 2 or before 0429 on day 3 provided it is also finished by 0429 on day 3.

 

[gray1404]

Might be a lot simpler here to go back to ask the ticket office if they can non issue the ticket and reissue one for travel the following day. I would not expect them to be able to on the basis you got the ticket online. Failing that, pay the refund fee on this occasion and charge it to experience and buy a new ticket for Wednesday. I know its annoying but it might be a while lot simpler.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Might be a lot simpler here to go back to ask the ticket office if they can non issue the ticket and reissue one for travel the following day. I would not expect them to be able to on the basis you got the ticket online. Failing that, pay the refund fee on this occasion and charge it to experience and buy a new ticket for Wednesday. I know its annoying but it might be a while lot simpler.

I would advise this. You are almost certain to get an argument if using a (Super) Off Peak Return outward portion on a day other than that printed on it, unless it's for a journey that would obviously be hard to do in one day, e.g. one involving the Caledonian or Night Riviera Sleeper or otherwise over a very long distance (e.g. from London down to somewhere in Cornwall or something).

To me the stress would not be worth £12.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I would advise this. You are almost certain to get an argument if using a (Super) Off Peak Return outward portion on a day other than that printed on it, unless it's for a journey that would obviously be hard to do in one day, e.g. one involving the Caledonian or Night Riviera Sleeper or otherwise over a very long distance (e.g. from London down to somewhere in Cornwall or something).

To me the stress would not be worth £12.

Perhaps to you and to others, the risk of the stress is not worth it over £12 (or £10.70 for a single to Market Harborough).

To me, it's almost something I'd go out of my way to try. I say "bring it on" if any TOC feels like disrespecting my contractual rights...