Free over 60's travel - for or against

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Jim

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AGAINST!

Fare paying passengers, paying stupidly inflated fares are being asked by over 60's to give up there seats, be it back or front, to allow 60+ not to stand! Do you think that is right? Why should I off stood up for a 1hr.30 journey just because the granny wanted my seat

Your opinions...
 
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Daniel

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You should have stood up as elderly people generally have weaker legs.

I think that over 60's should be forced to pay a suppliment - not go for free.

After all, students still have to pay.
 

HSTfan!!!

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I pay £36 a month to sit in a claustrophobic single deck tin can full of school kids every day.... Serious, what with increasing prices you'd expect double deck buses or increased frequency on buses during rush hour. Roll on passing my test..... this is not the way to get the public out of their cars.
 

devon_metro

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Go to the back, the grannies can't go up the steps :mrgreen:

I agree though, means i have to pay more! All of my local buses are full of grannies who have been shopping!
 

RJ

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I'd suspect that pensioners do not have a large budget, what with not being able to work or whatever. Every little helps. And its not them who decided to let them go free, so you can't resent them for that.

Also, if you sit at the front of the bus in "priority" seats, then you should give it up should somebody in greater need requires it more than you. I'm sure that when you're an old man, you wouldn't like to be standing and struggling to hold on the whole time.....
 

theblackwatch

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I'd suspect that pensioners do not have a large budget, what with not being able to work or whatever. Every little helps. And its not them who decided to let them go free, so you can't resent them for that.

In my experience, a good proportion of the over 60s are among the richest people about! "Don't need to work so took early retirement" etc. Admittedly, there are people who do not have lots of money, but that applies to people in all age groups.

This free travel for the elderly is a prime example of an idea which the government has not thought through properly. Someone I know (who has just happened to reach 60) decided to go to Skipton on the bus a couple of weeks ago to visit the Embsay & Bolton Abbey - he was refused access as it was full (of other 60+ people) and told he would have to wait for the next one, which was in 2 hours time.
 

matt

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After 09:30 in the midlands when the over 60s travel passes become valid the first bus is always packed with old folk
 

The Gricer

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In my experience, a good proportion of the over 60s are among the richest people about!
I would dare to say that the richest among them are not the ones using the buses. My dad is in his seventies and can now get out and about much more than he was able to afford to do before he got his free bus pass.

Quite a sobering thought is that in less than 8 years I will be elligible for an 'over sixties' pass myself! :grin:


Frank
 

Techniquest

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I'm for, as it's very useful! Indeed, I hope they are still about when I'm that old!

It does take away some of the fresh air out of the buses, so that's got to be good. Less pensioners on the road!

Not getting up for an elderly person, unless you're literally unable to due to being in a wheelchair/on crutches, is rude, when there's no seats available.
 

Bighat

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AGAINST!

Fare paying passengers, paying stupidly inflated fares are being asked by over 60's to give up there seats, be it back or front, to allow 60+ not to stand! Do you think that is right? Why should I off stood up for a 1hr.30 journey just because the granny wanted my seat

Your opinions...

Firstly Jim, the issue you are complaining about has nothing to do with with free travel.

When I was your age (sorry to use that rather condescending phrase) I was EXPECTED to offer my seat to an older person, and my father would have belted me round the ear hole if I didn't "volunteer". That does not happen today, Your peers and contemporaries carry guns and knives around and assault one another. Daily almost, I read reports ON THIS FORUM from people of YOUR age complaining that they have been threatened, mugged (and one day, possibly worse) by others who have no respect for their fellow man.

Have you stopped to wonder why?

As for the 'free travel', in London anyway, these are paid for by the local London Borough council, out of taxes levied on the rateable value of the house you live in. I pay £1,500 PER YEAR (and have done for the last 40 odd years-allowing for inflation), and 70% of this goes on 'educating' children. I have been 'entitled' to a Freedom Pass for two years now. I have used it 4 times, total benefit to me £2.80. So tell me, who's got the best deal then?

Jim, whilst NO-ONE likes to stand, please engage brain BEFORE setting digit to keyboard.

p.s. I would LOVE to have the energy and ability to be able to stand up unsupported for 90 minutes, but alas age does take its toll. Unfortunately, YOU too will find this out one day!
 

Bighat

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In my experience, a good proportion of the over 60s are among the richest people about! "Don't need to work so took early retirement" etc. Admittedly, there are people who do not have lots of money, but that applies to people in all age groups.

This free travel for the elderly is a prime example of an idea which the government has not thought through properly. Someone I know (who has just happened to reach 60) decided to go to Skipton on the bus a couple of weeks ago to visit the Embsay & Bolton Abbey - he was refused access as it was full (of other 60+ people) and told he would have to wait for the next one, which was in 2 hours time.


And have you stopped to think WHY some over 60's are among the richest people about? Maybe it's because they worked hard and saved! It is YOU my friend who have not thought it through.

But do you think that all these geriatric 'grannies' really enjoy the public transport experience. Get real, they use buses because they HAVE to. They are not part of this rich elite which seems to bother you so much. In London IIRC, all 'children under 16 now travel free (why? they have not paid taxes all their life!), and 16 and 17 year olds are now to be given free travel also (in certain circumstances). Whoopee! The children of these geriatrics which you seem to despise so much never benefitted from such luxuries, nor did they receive child benefit and a host of other benefits YOUR parents now receive so that you can sit on your computer at home (how much did it cost, who pays for the internet subscription etc), just so that YOU can sit their and slag people off.

Get a life.....when you are old enough!!
 

theblackwatch

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And have you stopped to think WHY some over 60's are among the richest people about? Maybe it's because they worked hard and saved! It is YOU my friend who have not thought it through.

But do you think that all these geriatric 'grannies' really enjoy the public transport experience. Get real, they use buses because they HAVE to. They are not part of this rich elite which seems to bother you so much. In London IIRC, all 'children under 16 now travel free (why? they have not paid taxes all their life!), and 16 and 17 year olds are now to be given free travel also (in certain circumstances). Whoopee! The children of these geriatrics which you seem to despise so much never benefitted from such luxuries, nor did they receive child benefit and a host of other benefits YOUR parents now receive so that you can sit on your computer at home (how much did it cost, who pays for the internet subscription etc), just so that YOU can sit their and slag people off.

Get a life.....when you are old enough!!

Well I'm amused you think my parents recieve benefits for me, pay for my computer and internet subscription. I never knew they could claim for child benefit when I've been working full time for 17 years and left home in 1996!

I've no problem with people having saved up for their retirement, its what I'm doing - been working since 07.45 this morning, got about 30 mins to go, up at 06.30 tomorrow.... You say about those being rich because they worked hard and saved. It could be argued then that those who worked hard and saved (and don't need the bus) are paying for those who didn't - and there are plenty of people of every generation who just expect the state to pay for them. Obviously there are also those who couldn't work/save (ie disability, illness etc) but that's a different matter.

Incidentally, where had I slagged anybody off (apart from the government)?

I'll let you pick up your own toys and put them back in your pram.
 

Jim

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I really do think though, that on a 90 minute journey, the goverment allow FULL fare passengers to stand...

WHY shoudld the bus companies BUY bigger buses because of a goverment inicitive?

Re: Liam, even the back seats were being vacated by full fare paying pasengers for the over 60's
 

Jim

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I see what the "for" side is getting at, but in the belting heat on a Saturday Lunchtime, have you ever been on a bus (Optare Solo BTW) with 36 passengers on (i.e full up) when only 3 got a ticket! This ment that 33 graniies were fighting for seats, on a bus with only 26 seats! How disgracfull, the goverment really didn't think about this though. The free pases have killed at least 10 bus routes in the dorset area, because other routes needed more funding!

Stop & think about what routes might be being lost, before the passenger things"
 

Tom B

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You need to remember that free travel is propped up by the government, they don't just let OAPs on they must all be recorded with a buttonpush on the machine. They then claim back a certain amount per pax from the government (not sure how much, anyone?). It keeps some services alive here, without the OAPs they wouldnt be viable.

Also its already regulated because it can only be used outside a specified time band ie the peak - so it doesn't overcram buses when working people usually need them.

If bus companies aren't putting properly sized buses out it's their problem. No different to if loads of fare-paying pax suddenly turned up. And yes you should give up your seat, when you're old and not so strong in the legs as you are now you'll expect the same! Children should, first those small ones with no ticket who are only carried free on condition they don't occupy a seat, then others. For the record I always move back (if I'm sitting near the front), then vacate my seat if the bus begins to fill.
 

Jim

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Also its already regulated because it can only be used outside a specified time band ie the peak - so it doesn't overcram buses when working people usually need them.

You must be taking the mick, they blinking didn't but restrictions on the Wilts passes

You need to remember that free travel is propped up by the government, they don't just let OAPs on they must all be recorded with a buttonpush on the machine. They then claim back a certain amount per pax from the government (not sure how much, anyone?).

IIRC, it ends up with a bit of a loss, paticularry on long distance journeys...
 

Daniel

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Surrey County Council said:
From the 1st April 2006 bus travel for senior citizens becomes free.

Senior Citizens' permits are accepted after 9am Mondays to Fridays and any time at weekends and on bank/public holidays.

To get a permit you must live in Surrey and be aged 60 or over.

To apply you will need to provide proof of residence in Surrey and age, for example a pension book or birth certificate, along with your completed application form. If you already have a permit from the previous year, you can provide that.

If you find it impossible to travel on your own you can apply for a Companion Permit.
 

yorkie

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The problem with buses is that they are often only decent value if you are under, or over, a certain age.

Outside the peak buses tend to mainly be used by Under 16s and Over 60s.

Why would I pay £3 for a return to town, when I can cycle in less time, for next to nothing? (My bike cost me £350 and has required no maintenance for 2 years - that works out at 47p per day so far and it has plenty of life left in it)

Where there are parallel rail routes, a Y-P discounted return is nearly always cheaper than a bus fare (in my experience), despite the train being quicker - where's the logic in that?

To make matters worse, buses are full-fare for anyone who looks 14 or over in places like York, unless you have a York-specific card (not just general proof of age card).

I only ever get buses when I am forced to do so due to being outside my home city, and going to a destination not served by rail. Last time this happened I was refused entry to a bus due to it being full, causing an eventual delay of 2 hours (as I missed a train as a result). Many of the people on the bus would have been 60+ travelling for free and been home before I'd even got on the alternative bus I had to get. It's not fair, but then I can't complain because there's no-one to complain to!

The bus industry is totally unaccountable, makes up random rules as they go along which differ hugely from operator to operator, there are no customer charters, no compensation schemes, no nothing.

It is for these reasons that all proposals to replace rail services with bus services should be opposed.

Of course buses are cheaper to run - because the companies can screw the fare-paying passengers and not have any concequences.

But back to the question, I really don't have an answer, but something isn't right when fare-paying passengers are turned away.
 

Derek

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Just read this thread and thought I should put in my two pennith worth. I think there should be no free travel, young or old, because the rest of us have to subsidise them.
 

class 313

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Exsactly!

Im not pating for some old winkly ****, im paying for myself and thats it! MAKE THE OLD PEAOPLE PAY AGAIN!
 

Nick W

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I don't think busses are ever decent value.

Cars are only 50p per mile. For more than two people you might as well go by car.

Of course bike's the best option.
 

Bighat

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Exsactly!

Im not pating for some old winkly ****, im paying for myself and thats it! MAKE THE OLD PEAOPLE PAY AGAIN!


Looking at your spelling, I shall now demand a refund on my taxes. The money spent on your 'education' has obviously been a total waste of MY taxes.

Seriously though, for all of you who have been making snide remarks about 'subsidised travel' in this thread, look at the BIGGER picture. We ALL cross subsidise one another during our lifetime.

If all children had to pay back their primary and secondary education costs (as some university students now have to), where would it end? You may not like school now, but you would be pretty hacked off if you were presented with a bill for 11 years tuition when you become 16!

Similarly, why should a married couple with four children pay less tax (and receive child benefit) than a couple with no children?

We are supposed to be a caring and compasionate society. Look at countries (e.g. in Africa) where its every one for himself. Would you fancy living there?

p.s. there are no Freedom Passes in Sudan, nor any buses. Doesn't matter though, most people die long before they are entitled!
 

devon_metro

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As long as it happens when im 60+!

Although i thik if you pay for a ticket then you should be entitiled to a seat, and if there are none, a cheaper fare. It is unfair paying rip-off bus prices to then not get a seat as an OAP has taken it.

I say build non OAP friendly buses with Steps and gaps with a large step from the pavement ;)
 

class 313

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Looking at your spelling, I shall now demand a refund on my taxes. The money spent on your 'education' has obviously been a total waste of MY taxes.

Seriously though, for all of you who have been making snide remarks about 'subsidised travel' in this thread, look at the BIGGER picture. We ALL cross subsidise one another during our lifetime.

If all children had to pay back their primary and secondary education costs (as some university students now have to), where would it end? You may not like school now, but you would be pretty hacked off if you were presented with a bill for 11 years tuition when you become 16!

Similarly, why should a married couple with four children pay less tax (and receive child benefit) than a couple with no children?

We are supposed to be a caring and compasionate society. Look at countries (e.g. in Africa) where its every one for himself. Would you fancy living there?

p.s. there are no Freedom Passes in Sudan, nor any buses. Doesn't matter though, most people die long before they are entitled!

I apologise for my random out burst....

But you make very vailed comments! witch i also think is true
 

Derek

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Looking at your spelling, I shall now demand a refund on my taxes. The money spent on your 'education' has obviously been a total waste of MY taxes.

Seriously though, for all of you who have been making snide remarks about 'subsidised travel' in this thread, look at the BIGGER picture. We ALL cross subsidise one another during our lifetime.

If all children had to pay back their primary and secondary education costs (as some university students now have to), where would it end? You may not like school now, but you would be pretty hacked off if you were presented with a bill for 11 years tuition when you become 16!

Similarly, why should a married couple with four children pay less tax (and receive child benefit) than a couple with no children?

We are supposed to be a caring and compasionate society. Look at countries (e.g. in Africa) where its every one for himself. Would you fancy living there?

p.s. there are no Freedom Passes in Sudan, nor any buses. Doesn't matter though, most people die long before they are entitled!

Firstly lets have no sarcasim here, surely our government should decide on who is realy in need.
 

Techniquest

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It's not fair, but then I can't complain because there's no-one to complain to!

Wrong. At least in South Wales I know for fact there is something called Bus Users or something. Basically a group to turn to when things go balls-up with buses.

Try a search in Google for it. I think it's http://www.bususers.org but don't rely on me being right!

EDIT: Dreadful, I got it right! Never had any need to use them myself, but there you go. Rant away in an e-mail to them!
 

Bighat

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As long as it happens when im 60+!

Although i thik if you pay for a ticket then you should be entitiled to a seat, and if there are none, a cheaper fare. It is unfair paying rip-off bus prices to then not get a seat as an OAP has taken it.

I say build non OAP friendly buses with Steps and gaps with a large step from the pavement ;)


if you had read, and UNDERSTOOD, the post preceeding yours: you may have saved yourself the embarassment of making such an inane remark!
 
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