Nothing sarcastic here, all too very true I am afraid!
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Free over 60's travel - for or against
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Nothing sarcastic here, all too very true I am afraid!
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Dennis
Established Member
Just to add my opinions.....
I'm all for free bus travel for the over 60's as long as they don't abuse the system and turn buses into mobile OAP clubs. Those good folk have made their contribution to society and deserve some rewards. What better way to do this than to let them fill up the otherwise half empty Dennis Darts and Scania Omnideckers that are currently roaming the bus network carting around fresh air.
The bus companies must be rubbing their hands with glee thanks to what must be this governments only truly socialist act; every time a pensioner gets on (real or imaginary), there is more cash to be had from the local authorities who have to pay for and administer this scheme (Eastbourne pensioners alone costing the local authority £600 000 per year).
My only concerns, reflecting other voiced here, is what happens when a normal fare paying passenger wants to travel and the bus is full? And how does the positive discrimination (in favour of both the U16's and O60's) which offer free travel fit in the equality legislation?
As a final point, has anyone else ever encountered unruly / objectionable 'old' bus passengers? IMHO, although not wantonly destructive like so many youngsters, queue barging, second seat hogging, shouting down the length of the bus, whingeing at the driver etc are increasingly common traits amongst the more senior bus passengers.
I'm all for free bus travel for the over 60's as long as they don't abuse the system and turn buses into mobile OAP clubs. Those good folk have made their contribution to society and deserve some rewards. What better way to do this than to let them fill up the otherwise half empty Dennis Darts and Scania Omnideckers that are currently roaming the bus network carting around fresh air.
The bus companies must be rubbing their hands with glee thanks to what must be this governments only truly socialist act; every time a pensioner gets on (real or imaginary), there is more cash to be had from the local authorities who have to pay for and administer this scheme (Eastbourne pensioners alone costing the local authority £600 000 per year).
My only concerns, reflecting other voiced here, is what happens when a normal fare paying passenger wants to travel and the bus is full? And how does the positive discrimination (in favour of both the U16's and O60's) which offer free travel fit in the equality legislation?
As a final point, has anyone else ever encountered unruly / objectionable 'old' bus passengers? IMHO, although not wantonly destructive like so many youngsters, queue barging, second seat hogging, shouting down the length of the bus, whingeing at the driver etc are increasingly common traits amongst the more senior bus passengers.
Jordy
Established Member
Agreed.
There is a simular free over 60s bus pass in Grimsby now, and it has indeed made the buses more well used, and encouraged Stagecoach to run them more frequently, which is happening as of today!
Jordy
The sarcasim I was commenting on was your rude post on another members spelling.
They just get told it's full and the driver closes the door on them.
In my recent case, we were told we had a choice to wait 60 minutes, or take a 15 minute walk to a place with more frequent (but much slower) buses. I walked... and ended up on a bus that took 1 hour for a 4 mile journey, and the bus left 25 minutes after I was meant to leave originally.
Result? On a train 1 hour later than planned, which meant the last direct York train was missed, meaning a detour via Leeds, resulting in a delay eventually totalling 108 minutes.
And I had to run to even make that, if I had walked from the bus stop at the end I'd have just missed a train and had a further delay of an additional 107 minutes*, so it could have been much worse!!!
* I know that may sound excessive, but if I had not run to make the train I got, then I'd have missed the last booked connection via London, forcing me to go via Birmingham, and due to engineering works on that awfully slow line it would have taken 47 minutes longer with the additional one hour wait. If this had happened I'd have got home at 00:59 instead of 21:24. Worse, I'd even have had to get a bloody Voyager!!!
My Grandma (and it seems many of her friends) are actually strongly against free bus travel. The main reason for this is the withdrawl of every other type of concessionary fare (e.g. discounted season tickets for sixth form students). They don't see why other people in equal or greater need should suffer just so they don't have to pay 50p.
On the other side of the argument, the newspaper was reporting that some are complaining that they have to pay £8 to use the metro for a whole year.
On the other side of the argument, the newspaper was reporting that some are complaining that they have to pay £8 to use the metro for a whole year.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
For your lengthy thoughts on how to radically change the country's transport system, I award you, Metroland, with Post of the Week. The prize? Knowledge that others agree with your thoughts and stuff...
On a slightly more serious note, I do agree with pretty much what you've said there. It's very interesting in theory, although how it would survive in practice we may never know.
In a way, Wales has that already, in that if you have one of their Concessionary Passes, you can travel by bus and train in Wales. Very, very handy. What restrictions and other conditions come with that I don't know, but it is much akin to the Freedom Pass in London, in that it is extremely useful if you travel on public transport more than just a commute every day. You could use it to go from Holyhead to Milford Haven and not pay any extra. First Class fares are subject to paying the full FC fare of course, but hey, Milford Haven - Holyhead with just one change at Crewe or Shrewsbury, without paying excessive amounts, that's amazing. If only there were such things in England...
So long as we have all this around when I'm 60+, another 48 years, 2 months and so many days away, then I'm all for it!
On a slightly more serious note, I do agree with pretty much what you've said there. It's very interesting in theory, although how it would survive in practice we may never know.
In a way, Wales has that already, in that if you have one of their Concessionary Passes, you can travel by bus and train in Wales. Very, very handy. What restrictions and other conditions come with that I don't know, but it is much akin to the Freedom Pass in London, in that it is extremely useful if you travel on public transport more than just a commute every day. You could use it to go from Holyhead to Milford Haven and not pay any extra. First Class fares are subject to paying the full FC fare of course, but hey, Milford Haven - Holyhead with just one change at Crewe or Shrewsbury, without paying excessive amounts, that's amazing. If only there were such things in England...
So long as we have all this around when I'm 60+, another 48 years, 2 months and so many days away, then I'm all for it!
Against it. IMO, it was only introduced because of the 'Grey vote' - but TBH, how many government decisions aren't based to please one group of people or another?
Free travel should be means tested, depending on income, age & whether you're working or not. There are many children living on a smaller income than over 60s who have to go out to school, etc. If you deduct the money that I'd spend on food and other expenses that are paid for by my parents, and, statistically my household is well off (apparently) - I have an income a lot less per week than even the basic rate of state pension.
Free travel should be means tested, depending on income, age & whether you're working or not. There are many children living on a smaller income than over 60s who have to go out to school, etc. If you deduct the money that I'd spend on food and other expenses that are paid for by my parents, and, statistically my household is well off (apparently) - I have an income a lot less per week than even the basic rate of state pension.
theblackwatch
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I'm sure you're right about that - the 'grey vote' is significant (I would guess around 1/3 of those eligable to vote) and is increasing all the time. Mind you, the free travel isn't mch use to a lot of the elderly. For example, my Grandma couldn't get on a bus - she lives in a residential home, is partially sighted and finds walking out to a taxi and getting in it requires major effort. She used to get some tokens (around £10 worth I think) twice a year which could be used on bus services or towards taxi fares. With the free travel on buses, I'm not sure if these tokens have been dropped - if they have, then she will actually lose out as she won't get anything towards her taxi journeys.
You are nearly 12 years old?
Maybe you meant 38 years time?
It's closer than you think!
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Where the hell I got 48 years from I dunno! Maybe I was thinking of 70 instead for some reason...Yes, that's it...
38 years, bring it on!
38 years, bring it on!
taw valley
Member
its shamefull to reason some of the replys on here "why should i stand up for a granny" well maybe there the grannys and grandpa's that have kept your ablity to speack english and free speach and not nazi german
im ashamed of the people who think it , and you know who you are. i hope when you turn 60 your see how stupid you sounded and wish that, that guy/girl sitting in that seat will give it up for you so you can rest your old legs
im ashamed of the people who think it , and you know who you are. i hope when you turn 60 your see how stupid you sounded and wish that, that guy/girl sitting in that seat will give it up for you so you can rest your old legs
So a 59 year old full fare paying passenger has to give up his seat, for someone posiabally only a few days older than him, before 0930, because of the free passes
I no longer have an objection to giving up my seat for someone older (but still refuse to give up my seat in the wheelchair bay if someone + buggy gets on), but my objection is to giving everyone +60 free travel.
Ascot
Established Member
The granny pass should be limited to the twirly pass(west Midlands style). There is no law saying give your seat to a rasberry but it's curtecy to let them rest their legs after the hard walk from the gully. Remember we ALL going to get lke them.
At last someone with some intelligence and forethought and obviously a member of the old school who was taught manners in his younger days? Something that is sadly lacking in today’s World of rubbish in streets and long painful waits for operations due to monies being spent on those who have never paid into it?
As a long serving pensioner myself and not rich. My once a month trip on a bus is a welcome outing for me. Train journeys now are just a memory. A return ticket to London would take almost a quarter of my pension so that’s a luxury I have to shrug off.
People who moan about the first bus after 9.30 being full of old grannies should catch the next one. If you only get one bus a day that’s tough, move into a Town.
Just remember, you’ll be old one day if the good Lord spares you. So think before you put pen to paper.
Tom B
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As Metroland reports, the SYOAP being free has meant an upsurge in OAP usage. In fact routes that previously werent viable are kept floating by the OAPs so it's good for everyone - without the OAPs the routes may be cut. And there *IS* a 9am cap, so they keep away from the peak hours - you get plenty of "twirlies", the first buses after 9am are full of OAPs. Loss on long journeys may be inevitable but many more journeys are very short. In particular we have a lot of OAPs here taking a bus from the markets to the interchange, a short trip, before changing to a bus home.
Of course we now have the problem with drivers issuing OAP tickets in lieu of proper ones...
And as Bighat points out, you can't complain about it being a waste of taxpayer's money to provide OAPs with free travel if they have paid for your education and yet you fail to construct a proper sentance.
Of course we now have the problem with drivers issuing OAP tickets in lieu of proper ones...
And as Bighat points out, you can't complain about it being a waste of taxpayer's money to provide OAPs with free travel if they have paid for your education and yet you fail to construct a proper sentance.
I don't understand that here either. Why do they issue OAPs with tickets, they don't do it in some areas such as West Midlands. When they introduced the free travel, I was looking forward to buses not having to piddle around at bus stops as tickets were issued, but OAPs still have to state their destination and have a ticket printed.
Talking of piddling around at bus stops... bring on flat-fares and an exact change policy!
Talking of piddling around at bus stops... bring on flat-fares and an exact change policy!
Tom B
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In South Yorks, it's a matter of them waving the pass in the general direction of the driver who prints a ticket - doesn't show the destination. Some still insist on opening up their pass with difficulty, extracting it from their pass and showing it to the driver, who has printed the ticket as soon as he sees the blue pass holder! Or bright orange in the case of mobility, or bright orange with a dot in the case of blind.
Who really I have an objection to, is what I see whenever I take the bus. Kids with cheap-rate or free travel to school taking all the seats, leaving those paying higher fares (over 16 students & adults) standing.
One of the smaller operators round here has a sign up saying Children travelling at reduced fare must give up their seat for an adult. Though in practice, this never happens, as they only run 1 commercial route and the rest of their jobs are council-subsidised which are stupidly underused owing to extremely poor publicity.
One of the smaller operators round here has a sign up saying Children travelling at reduced fare must give up their seat for an adult. Though in practice, this never happens, as they only run 1 commercial route and the rest of their jobs are council-subsidised which are stupidly underused owing to extremely poor publicity.
[HTML=http://www.oxford-chiltern-bus-page.co.uk/upload180404/OBC-new-wayfarer.JPG]Wayferer TGX150's[/HTML]have a system which allows the "proper" recording of the pass & it's boarding point, without having to issue a ticket, where as the Wayfarer that First Bristol use, is old technologgy & means you have to issue to record so to speak
Yes, but I guess that isn't as importnat to record, as no subsidy has to come from the council
I'm also certain that the council are losing money, a 54A bus that leaves Cribbs Causeway just before 9pm on a Saturday is supported, yet it's used by loads of people, and the driver seems to wave loads of people on, charge a few more a minimal fare and not issue them a ticket. It seems to me that they're trying to make it look like nobody uses that bus, despite the fact the bottom deck was full, and the top deck had at least 15 people on it.
Errr......In London they do sell tickets for use on buses in shops. As for ease of boarding and alighting, why not have bench seats right across the bus, with open sides? We could call this new mode of transportation.......a charabanc. Rather brings this back on topic. If you're over 60, you may well remember them!
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