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Free travel for Police?

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badassunicorn

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Hi all, whilst waiting at the station this afternoon I noticed a woman flash a police card/badge thing and be waved through the gateline. I would doubt very much that she was on duty as she was wearing casual clothes with loads of shopping bags etc. Am I right in thinking that all police officers travel for free on the trains?
 
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185

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Only BTP can officially travel.

.....but contrary to clandestine company instructions, many staff actively welcome other officers onto trains both on and off duty as well - on many occasions officers have provided much needed backup at our time of need.

In my view, the more the merrier. Some staff will disagree with my thoughts on this, but miss the point about greedy selfish train company management not caring about us at all.
 

muz379

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depending on what force they work for .

I know the Met get free underground and bus travel in London on presentation of their warrant card , on and off duty .

Where I live in Manchester last time I checked Local police officers with GMP are entlted to free travel within the(old GMPTE) TFGM boundary this includes PCSO's and specials both off and on duty .

BTP obviously have free travel when on duty , and on their way to work . Ive never seen anything mentioned about off duty but they are hardly likely to get charged if they present a Warrant .

A fair few other forces have travel concessions organized with local transport providers .The primary theme being is that the arrangements are a goodwill gesture and not contractual agreements meaning that they dont attract any interest from HMRC as a taxable benefit .

My personal Perspective as a Guard is that I am never going to charge a police officer for a ticket if they present a warrant card, I have a great deal of respect for the job they do . But if I do have trouble with an aggressive/drunk/nuisance passenger I expect that they will offer assistance .Even if that assistance is just to give a detailed account of what has happened to the police who come to assist or in court .

Speaking to a friend a few years ago who is a copper he said he never showed his Warrant when getting trains and buses late at night as he would rather pay his fare and decide what incidents if any he got involved in .Plus if he had been on the ale he didnt have to get involved then and saved the trouble that this could cause . Rather than having some clumsy bus driver or train guard drop him in it by saying "oh wait mate this guys a copper dont do that ." So I guess that's one of the drawbacks of free travel for them is that the guard or bus driver might expect them to intervene .
 
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LowLevel

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That's basically the state of affairs - they're free as a bird with me as long as they help out if needed (as they are effectively obliged to do anyway, in return for making it obvious to me, by choice, they travel free.
 

Solent&Wessex

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Afraid I adopt a very different approach.

Police officers can be useful.

So can nurses, doctors, firemen etc - so let's let all them travel free too.

While we're at it, I have a lot of respect for soldiers, sailors, mountain rescue etc, so we best let them all travel free too.

Can someone give me one good reason why police constables should travel free when they are off dutyu?
 

Searle

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kwvr45:1885873 said:
Afraid I adopt a very different approach.

Police officers can be useful.

So can nurses, doctors, firemen etc - so let's let all them travel free too.

While we're at it, I have a lot of respect for soldiers, sailors, mountain rescue etc, so we best let them all travel free too.

Can someone give me one good reason why police constables should travel free when they are off dutyu?

Because you're a nice person? :)
 

LowLevel

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You're in a minority there I'm afraid chief. I can't think of anyone I know who chings coppers. I can't imagine that stance would have developed without good cause.

As long as the company want to send me out in to the badlands with ever reducing security presence etc then I'm quite happy to turn a blind eye to ensure a bit of backup.

That said, I'm not particularly desperate anyway. I use my discretion as much as possible because that's what the company want me to do, apparently, and whoever pays the piper picks the tune. If they tell me they want me to hang old ladies upside till the money falls out if they travel 30 minutes out on an advance or provide me with 3 heavies to enforce things then wonderful. Otherwise I take the easy fares, give a good return on my wages and spend my confrontation points on things like anti social behaviour and such.

I take in more than average takings and I don't get my head kicked in. What's not to like. I like my face intact and I've seen too many other people get assaulted for vigorously chasing silly little fares. I'm a guard not an RPI.
 
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bnm

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Off duty, BTP officers not based in London, can only get free residential rail travel for up to 8 miles. For those based in London the radius is 70 miles.

This is only for travel to and from work. With some TOCs extending the 8 mile maximum. There is no concession for free leisure travel. Any officer using their warrant card to obtain free leisure travel where it is not permitted could face disciplinary proceedings most likely resulting in dismissal.

The exception is for officers in post prior to April 1996. Some of these have 'safeguarded' passes permitting free and/or discounted leisure travel across the network.

That's the way of things from the BTP side. However, some TOCs have local agreements to allow off duty officers free leisure travel. This though can be problematical if officers go out of area. Most officers don't and won't take the p***, as any problems could result in disciplinary action.

Ultimately, where no agreement is in place between a police force and a transport operator, no police officer should use his/her warrant card to obtain free travel. Where agreements are in place an officer has to remember that when they identify themselves with a warrant card they are, under the regulations, on duty. As such their conduct is measured by the standard of an on duty officer. So, not a good idea to use it when out shopping with the kids or after a night on the ale.
 

the sniper

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Only BTP can officially travel.

Officially on your TOCs side, but BTP is one of the few Forces which actually makes a major point internally of not allowing it's Warrant Card holders to travel on their Warrant Cards, even though most TOCs encourage it. While most Forces PSD departments spend their time investigating allegations of corruption and Police brutality, BTP PSD occupy their time trying to punish PCs who have travelled off duty on their warrant cards. Usually finding them out after they've honourably got involved in dealing with trouble off duty.

Frankly it's one of the things that sickened me about how the BTP treats its employees. The PCs I worked with who travelled by train, they were always getting involved with problems off duty, having to badge out to deal with people, but they weren't allowed to badge out for free travel when the TOCs permitted it! Saying that though, there are some local arrangements in BTP where off duty free travel is permitted, though this isn't nationwide.

This is why I always say that BTP get as crapper deal as NR staff when it comes to the joke that is rail staff travel facilities.

Speaking to a friend a few years ago who is a copper he said he never showed his Warrant when getting trains and buses late at night as he would rather pay his fare and decide what incidents if any he got involved in .Plus if he had been on the ale he didnt have to get involved then and saved the trouble that this could cause . Rather than having some clumsy bus driver or train guard drop him in it by saying "oh wait mate this guys a copper dont do that ." So I guess that's one of the drawbacks of free travel for them is that the guard or bus driver might expect them to intervene .

When I was a Special with BTP, I did the same, and not just because of BTP policy. If you showed your Warrant Card you were putting yourself on duty, on duty with no back up or equipment and other things to do with the day. While I'd get involved in anything serious off duty, to do it safely you had to do it smartly and on your own terms. Being dropped in the deep end by a gung-ho Guard is not good for anybody involved.

You mention about them not badging out when on the ale, well this is beyond not wanting to get involved. As I say, when you get that Warrant Card out you're putting yourself on duty. You'd have to be mad to put yourself on duty while in drink, it's a sack-able offence.

Afraid I adopt a very different approach.

Police officers can be useful.

So can nurses, doctors, firemen etc - so let's let all them travel free too.

While we're at it, I have a lot of respect for soldiers, sailors, mountain rescue etc, so we best let them all travel free too.

Can someone give me one good reason why police constables should travel free when they are off dutyu?

Is it not your TOCs policy to offer at least PCs free travel on presentation of their warrant card? Of off duty Soldiers, Sailors, Mountain Rescue teams, Doctors, Nurses, Firemen and Police Officers, I've only ever had any use for the latter. I can do first aid, I can use a fire extinguisher, I don't have the legal authority to deal with offenders or my employers permission to deal effectively with fare evaders. Willing and able PCs/SPCs do.
 
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razor89

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I was always under the impression that the reason they are allowed free travel is that they are obliged to act should there be any trouble on their journey. In the place I used to work any police badge was acceptable, not just BTP. Occasionally though an off duty officer would stagger in drunk on a Saturday night, and some of my colleagues would tell them to buy a ticket as they were in no state to carry out their obligations.
 

badassunicorn

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Ahhh I see, I guess any help from off duty police/railway employee would be much appreciated if you had to for example detrain a 12 car at an unstaffed station in the middle of the peak! It seems like a precarious line the police take with regards to being "off" duty, in that are they ever really fully off duty if they are obliged to jump in when stuff kicks off?
 

PermitToTravel

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If I recall correctly, on TfL/LU services (including buses), officers of the Met, City of London, Thames Valley, Essex, and Surrey police forces, and the BTP, can all travel free off-duty
 

Solent&Wessex

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Is it not your TOCs policy to offer at least PCs free travel on presentation of their warrant card? .

No, not universally. There is a local agreement which affords on duty uniformed officers free travel between two stations 10 minutes apart, and another which allows on duty uniformed officers free travel on a branch line, but nothing else except BTP.

In fact we had a company wide email reminding us of this in detail not so long ago.
 

ATW Alex 101

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I was speaking to a BTP officer on the North Wales coast line and he said that they cover all the way from Bangor to Chester and they travel via train and get off at each station whilst on duty.
 

ralphchadkirk

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I don't understand the arrangements to be honest, but as far as I know it's a individual tax liability, amount dependant on the number of officers who choose to have the travel benefit.

My organisation was offered the same arrangements back in 2005 I believe, but it was roundly rejected after people heard that it wasn't actually free!

EDIT: I made a mistake in my original post, I meant ATOC not TfL. I don't know about the arrangement with TfL.
 
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185

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Can someone give me one good reason why police constables should travel free when they are off duty?

The 11 drunken North Yorkshire bobbys, out of area, heading for Leeds for a night out some years back, pinning two bag thieves to platform 16 for BTP to apprehend.

Not all our freeloading off-duty bobbies are bone idle. ;)
 

tony6499

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Southern had/have an agreement allowing Met Police to travel free on production of their warrant card, it is up to each TOC and Police Force to reach an agreement but they are honour bound to come to assist if needed on the train
 

trentside

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Fully agree with LowLevel on this one, I'd much rather leave them to it and have the back up than ching them and lose a potential ally should any trouble develop. If I did run into a problem and assistance wasn't offered, I may re-evaluate this stance.

I have heard stories of Met officers abusing the free travel facilities they can opt in to and then being collared by RPOs and left in quite a difficult situation. I think this involved journeys going a significant way out of the free travel area though.
 

Mutant Lemming

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Wasn't there a mass abuse of the free travelcard facility by the Met police - as in nearly all of them gave their travelcard to someone else and used their warrant card to travel - hence the change from giving them a gateline ticket to using their warrant card as a travel identity doucment ?
 
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