Free TV licence scrapped for (most) over 75-s

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Darandio, 10 Jun 2019.

  1. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Apologies, but such is the pressure of dealing with someone in the earliest stages of dementia that I am prone to make small mistakes. Patricia was born in November 1941. She is going to lose her free licence in 2020, when the new charging regime comes into effect.

    I would give anything to see her back to being the "young at heart" person she once was, but life just is not like that.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jun 2019
  2. py_megapixel

    py_megapixel Member

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    I believe that many pensioners use the bus because it is free. Scrapping bus passes pushes them towards driving, and encouraging several million people to start using a car as their primary mode of transport is simply not something we can afford to do, with the current climate change situation and traffic problems in many places.
     
  3. DanDaDriver

    DanDaDriver Member

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    I suppose that depends whether you view your taxes as keeping roads, Health services, police, fire service etc going at the time you pay them, or as a form of saving for the future.
     
  4. EM2

    EM2 Established Member

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    Absolutely NO BBC involvement whatsoever? That's more difficult than you might think, for example one of the big Amazon productions at the moment, 'Good Omens', is part BBC funded.
    And of course, you couldn't watch any repeats of old shows, no Red Dwarf, no Top Gear, no Dad's Army etc.
     
  5. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Which is what I don't do!
    Must admit I'm full of praise for the current county cricket situation where county games are streamed by the clubs (non-BBC) but they add BBC commentary to the streams; that's a service I would happily pay £150/yr for (seriously) so I get licence value there even if there was no other use for the Beeb.
    Which possibly backs up those like myself who want to pay directly for the bits we use and not for the bits we don't.
     
  6. Robin Edwards

    Robin Edwards Member

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    Aren't we all making more of this situation than needed? There must be many under 75s out there that don't have two h'pennies to rub together that currently have to pay to watch Dad's Army for the 100th time :)

    I don't believe Pension Credit is a fair enabler of getting free TV licence of over 75 either. We all face means testing where the situation arrives when for instance we might need care from NHS (hopefully still there when I need it!) and there is a threshold of £23K I believe that is currently used to determine who pays and who doesn't. It's not beyond the wit of man to use similar criteria for this imo.

    For those who think that they've worked hard and saved throughout their lives to deserve some entitlement the same as those that may have done differently and fritted their money away, this doesn't apply throughout the welfare state so you can't have cake and eat it I'm afraid. If you can afford to pay, then be glad that you can because there's plenty out there that are living hand to mouth, many not of their choosing.

    Another factor for those of a certain age to consider : The younger generation will effectively be paying higher rate of taxation for the remainder of their working lives at 6+% interest to pay off their student finance loans. They also have to pay for a TV license like everyone else, naturally. The over 75's for those wanting & able to obtain a higher education probably did so for free??
     
  7. WelshBluebird

    WelshBluebird Established Member

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    Are you trying to suggest that those of working age who are struggling for money only are in that position because of the above?
    Ever thought it is more to do with:
    • Higher housing costs
    • Lower wages compared to living costs
    • Zero hours contracts and the continued push away from "jobs for life" into more insecure and unstable work

    If you get the lower state pension then you are able to claim pension credit which tops it up to just shy of £168, and you'd get a free TV licence too according to the current plans.

    You currently have to apply for the free TV licence don't you? What is the difference?

    Absolutely. Shift the blame onto the BBC, get more people to be unhappy with them, use that to further push the idea that the BBC should be funded by some other means.
     
  8. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Only for the first 25 years (I believe), after which the debt is written off
     
  9. Robin Edwards

    Robin Edwards Member

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    You are correct if loan was taken out prior to September 2012 when the repayment period changed from 25 to 30 years and is now proposed by current government to change to 40 years so I understand.
     
  10. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    I'm sorry to hear that, Paul.
     
  11. geoffk

    geoffk Member

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    Yes, it's the Government, not the BBC, which should be getting the flak here. The free bus pass is, in theory, funded by the Government, not the bus operators (but we all know that the funding formula does not fully cover operators' costs). There are of course arguments about "over-paid BBC presenters" etc. and whether money could be saved there.
     
  12. mikeg

    mikeg Member

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    Have to say the whole 'my generation saved, rather than..'. Isn't backed up by evidence. Today's young and middle aged drink, smoke, etc. Less than they did in 'your day'. Have a lower standard of living. Also I appreciate there are those of all ages who are hard done by, and that not all had it easy. But to burden us with unsustainable perks, whilst many of us have to rely on handouts despite work seems not only 'not fair' but counterproductive in a utilitarian sense. Also what about the disabled of working age? Many are only just affording to sustain themselves if that.
     
  13. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    If you draw economic comparisons between the cost of a packet of 20 average sized cigarettes and a "pint" of an average drink in 1966 (when I was 21 and just in receipt of my First in Mathematics from Manchester University) and in 2019, you will find the normal inflation benchmarks are not quite what they could be, as in recent times, taxation on such products has been greatly increased from the economic accepted norm increase, with Government stating the above-average tax increases are to be viewed as an incentive to better the health of those consumers.
     
  14. mikeg

    mikeg Member

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    Very true! I think both sides of the argument could therefore pick a better argument on this one! Similarly the cost of foreign holidays has been much below inflation. But I think the real issue is the cost of housing rising above inflation and wages. Also job insecurity is a big issue. It's true that if you create too much certainty there is a lack of incentive, but the current situation is also counterproductive as a rational decision whether to make an investment of any kind become almost incalculable (well at least to most - you may do better with your mathematical ability!)

    But I do still think the current situation a trifle unfair, even when all is taken into account I believe that less has been paid in tax by the older generation than received in benefits by them. This wouldn't be a problem in my book had they not been better off by most measures. I'm always willing to support those in a worse position than me, I think the problem is probably wider actually.
     
  15. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Of course, go back even further in time, prior to 1948 (yes, I was still around in those days) prior to the establishment of the National Health Service, when people had to pay for medical services at the current rates applicable in those days that were charged by medical professionals.
     
  16. Robin Edwards

    Robin Edwards Member

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    I'm struggling to find your argument :
    If your First in Mathematics gave you a standard of living throughout your lifetime resulting in you being able to afford the current TV licence in older age, what is the issue? If not, then are you saying that you won't be able to afford herein?
    Also, I'm unclear if you're wanting to return to the 'good old days' before the NHS was created where afford or be damned was more the order?

    As a general comment, I care for several older people, a couple now in their 90s and as their world tends to shrink, the feeling that they are unfairly treated more than the young of today seems to come out. The young of today, aye?
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I think you could validly argue that the present set of people in their 50s and 60s (the "baby boomer" generation) are the ones who presently have it easiest. Though such things can change quickly enough. And Gen-X (my lot) will at some point inherit some of their riches, so it will pass down to some extent.
     
  18. whhistle

    whhistle Established Member

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    Seriously... I don't want to offend annyone here, this is just the way I see the situation

    The "old people" generation now are part of the "we deserve..." generation, that don't deserve as much as they get.
    "We didn't know diesel was bad" - not come across anything else the Government has said that people believe / follow!
    "We were mis-sold PPI" - I bet more than half of the people mis-sold PPI were fully understanding what it was.


    HOWEVER:

    TV is important for some old folk who don't get out and about very much. It's their link to the outside world.

    But I also think the BBC should change it's funding significantly.

    I don't agree TV stars should be making hundreds of thousands of pounds a year. If the BBC stops paying such high salaries (including to it's internal staff!) then you won't get the likes of Graham Norton on the BBC at all. However, the BBC could focus on making these house hold names they were known for. There's a wealth of talent that started on the BBC, and that's what they should continue to do. Pay less (but still way more than the average Nurse gets!) but concentrate on finding new talent.
    If that new talent flies the nest and goes to another channel, people will know they're going where the money is.

    Making significant savings like these could mean the TV Licence is reduced in funding and thus affordable for everyone.

    The impending problem is more and more people not watching TV as it's broadcast and thus don't pay.

    Broadcast TV is on the way out, so sooner or later, the BBC will change how it is funded anyway. The current administration just doesn't want it to happen under their watch - too much hassle I suspect.
     
  19. whhistle

    whhistle Established Member

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    It is interesting though.

    I know people who don't mind not scanning something at the supermarket checkout, or deliberately changing a bakery item to something less expensive, yet when I tell them I don't pay for a TV Licence it's like the end of the world has come.

    Double standards?
     
  20. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Interestingly broadcast radio still seems to be surviving - stations playing 10 songs on repeat perhaps less so (that's what Spotify is for), but speech based radio like BBC local radio does still have its followers (and loyalty - most radio listeners always have the same station on). It might well switch to being delivered via IP, but I can't see it going away. You can complement that with the likes of the Radio 4 podcasts (R4 is great but I find it best enjoyed "on demand" rather than live to air).

    I could therefore envisage a scenario in which the BBC drops its TV output entirely but retains radio, podcasts and maybe the News Channel and news website. Or maybe it keeps a channel like BBC2 for public service broadcasting but bins the rest.
     
  21. whhistle

    whhistle Established Member

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    Yeah, and radio is important for traffic updates and such too.

    The only broadcast channels I see surviving are: News, Shopping, Sports.
    In the end, everything else will become "on demand", which is where the BBC would perhaps use a subscription model. Or sell via Netflix / Amazon Prime.
     
  22. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    But if the money saved from scrapping the free passes was spent on making public transport attractive enough for the whole population, then that might cut car use more.
     
  23. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    You are Mick Cash and I claim the £5 offered in my morning newspaper.....:p.....Are we still on the "TV free licence for the over-75s" thread? They will now be demanding free passes to watch their television channels....:rolleyes:

    In response to your thoughts above, one of the weekly events not so very long ago in the area of the Northern franchise that made public transport less attractive to those who actually relied upon it as part of their travel to work and back was the fiasco of rail travel being subject to the strike machinations of the RMT, who also had hopes for their now famous press releases being in the running for the Nobel Prize for Literature.
     
    Last edited: 13 Jun 2019
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    These days most BBC programmes are commissioned from commercial programme-makers, who could now just sell direct to the public or via Netflix, Amazon etc. Or I suppose the BBC could compete using a paid-for iPlayer service.
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Passes aside, there is a paradox in bus operation. To get people out of cars you have to run fast and frequent services up main roads. For older, retired people with limited mobility you need "wanderbuses" around estates, but low frequencies are fine. If it isn't affordable to do both, what do you do?
     
  26. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    If by "broadcast TV" you mean picking up radio waves from a land based transmitter, Switzerland have become the first country to switch off its terrestrial TV transmission in the last few days. They now rely solely on satellite, cable and IP delivery. That will happen in the UK in due course as the radio spectrum used for TV gets taken over by mobile providers.

    If you mean linear TV channels will disappear, regardless of the method of delivery, I'm not sure about that.
     
  27. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Everyone has had (analogue) cable in CH for years anyway. They're mostly a country of flat-dwellers, and it's a standard installation in all blocks.

    I reckon they will. What's the point in linear delivery of BBC1? It'd be better if you could subscribe to series (the players for some reason seem to miss delivering that feature nicely - for some reason it escapes them to offer a "stack them up" type feature like PVRs do) and watch them when you want. Nothing stopping you watching them at the time they used to be on TV of course.

    The only TV it makes sense to provide as a linear channel is rolling news. Even sport works better as a paid for "pass" for streaming specific events or series of events e.g. Premiership football.

    Radio is different because it is consumed as a "background" medium, but that of course will in time move to IP streaming. A lot of people only listen that way anyway.
     
  28. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    Sometimes it's nice to have a curated stream of content to watch rather than making a decision. You may also stumble over a program that you may not have chosen, but find out you enjoy.

    Searching for something to watch in iPlayer, Netflix or Amazon can become a bit overwhelming - too much choice.

    What I do dislike is regular programs being replaced by rolling news, which can easily be accessed by anyone on the rolling news channel. Don't take away my daytime TV just because the PM may step out of #10 to make a resignation speech - put it on rolling news and maybe run a closed caption on the main channel, if you really must.
     
  29. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    The reason you mention is because it was not an argument put forward, but a scenario of the time period of twenty years prior to my original 1966 time period which I used as the comparison to what occurs in 2019. I thought mention of how people paid for medical services prior to the setting up of the NHS was quite a valid point to have made.

    As I said earlier in the thread, I am now in the position at the age of 74 of looking after the daily needs of my good lady wife, who at 77, has developed the early stages of a dementia-type affliction. However, as I also said earlier in the thread in a different posting, neither of us are financially embarrassed and I have employed a team of daily care staff to help matters. There is the other matter that after making what my Consultant feels is a good recovery from the stroke that I suffered in July 2012 at the age of 67, I too now have begun to suffer from age-related problems in the area of the brain where the stroke occurred. I have found this website to have been a great help in keeping my brain active in these post-stroke days, even though the majority of my postings these days are made on what I still call the Quizzes and Games forum, where I have made over 100,000 postings on that particular forum alone since joining this website in April 2011.
     
  30. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Whilst it is technically possible to watch non-live programmes on demand, a lot of people, including some of the most tech-savvy, still like the ritual of flicking through the channels. Linear TV also acts as a shop window. BBC Three pretended to go online only, but they still insist on putting some BBC Three shows on BBC One late at night. I suspect most of BBC Three's online only content is watched by a very small number of people, not just because they are not worth watching, but because people aren't that bothered to seek out the content.

    I'm sure ITV and other commercial broadcasters would love the BBC to go on demand only!
     

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