Freedom Pass, TfL Staff Pass, etc: Require touch in and out?

[hkstudent]

I notice that Freedom Pass and TfL Pass do not bear PAY value in the card and acted as the same as Travelcard in London.
Do they need to touch in / out at a non-barriered station e.g a DLR station or transferring from other National Rail services to TfL services like in Reading, where requires a long way to barrier from the platform?

 

[Lewlew]

No need. They simply open the barriers. If I'm not in uniform then I tend to tap in anyway if passing through open barriers just in case anyone is watching.

When changing from staff pass to national rail ticket then no need to tap in/out

 

[matt_world2004]

I notice that Freedom Pass and TfL Pass do not bear PAY value in the card and acted as the same as Travelcard in London.
Do they need to touch in / out at a non-barriered station e.g a DLR station or transferring from other National Rail services to TfL services like in Reading, where requires a long way to barrier from the platform?

Can't touch in and out at reading with a freedom pass /staff pass but you can travel.

 

[Snow1964]

Can't touch in and out at reading with a freedom pass /staff pass but you can travel.

Whats the logic in issuing a pass that permits travel, but doesn’t allow you to enter/exit the end station.

Or is it simply the gates are badly programmed and don’t accept valid tickets, and if so why is the mistake not being corrected. Reading is not exactly some wayside halt where there is no budget to do a few improvements

 

[Hadders]

Whats the logic in issuing a pass that permits travel, but doesn’t allow you to enter/exit the end station.

Or is it simply the gates are badly programmed and don’t accept valid tickets, and if so why is the mistake not being corrected. Reading is not exactly some wayside halt where there is no budget to do a few improvements

Because freedom passes from Reading are valid on TfL rail but not GWR services. The barriers not accepting them means that staff can remind passengers of this.

 

[Snow1964]

Because freedom passes from Reading are valid on TfL rail but not GWR services. The barriers not accepting them means that staff can remind passengers of this.

But isn’t there also SWR and Cross Country trains at Reading, so why would anyone be told don’t use GWR specifically rather than must use TfL

 

[Hadders]

But isn’t there also SWR and Cross Country trains at Reading, so why would anyone be told don’t use GWR specifically rather than must use TfL

Good point.

 

[Mojo]

Whats the logic in issuing a pass that permits travel, but doesn’t allow you to enter/exit the end station.

The “logic” for want of a better word, is that the gateline at Reading is not equipped for Oyster, but Contactless Payment Cards only.

 

[Snow1964]

The “logic” for want of a better word, is that the gateline at Reading is not equipped for Oyster, but Contactless Payment Cards only.

Ok Thanks, so basically just railway non joined up thinking, allow oyster on the trains serving the station, but in adding it, choose not to update the customer interface (the entrance doors/gates) to allow customers to get to/from the trains unhindered.

 

[Mojo]

Ok Thanks, so basically just railway non joined up thinking, allow oyster on the trains serving the station, but in adding it, choose not to update the customer interface (the entrance doors/gates) to allow customers to get to/from the trains unhindered.

It isn’t necessarily a choice, but more so a limitation of the design, because the oyster system capacity is “full up” and extra fare zones (eg. to Reading) cannot be added. Hopefully when the back office Oyster system is finally sorted this won’t be an issue.

 

[mmh]

Because freedom passes from Reading are valid on TfL rail but not GWR services. The barriers not accepting them means that staff can remind passengers of this.

Ok Thanks, so basically just railway non joined up thinking, allow oyster on the trains serving the station, but in adding it, choose not to update the customer interface (the entrance doors/gates) to allow customers to get to/from the trains unhindered.

This was explained on another thread as being a side-effect of the limitations of the Oyster system rather than an active choice, because a Freedom Pass is seen as an all-zone pass, and as zoned Travelcards are not valid outside the Travelcard zones and rejected, so too are Freedom Passes. If that is the case, then presumably Freedom Passes don't work any barriers outside the zones, not just at Reading or other Crossrail stations outside the zones but elsewhere, e.g. Watford Junction and Shenfield. Does anyone know if that is indeed the case?

 

[matt_world2004]

This was explained on another thread as being a side-effect of the limitations of the Oyster system rather than an active choice, because a Freedom Pass is seen as an all-zone pass, and as zoned Travelcards are not valid outside the Travelcard zones and rejected, so too are Freedom Passes. If that is the case, then presumably Freedom Passes don't work any barriers outside the zones, not just at Reading or other Crossrail stations outside the zones but elsewhere, e.g. Watford Junction and Shenfield. Does anyone know if that is indeed the case?

They work at Watford junction but not shenfield iirc

 

[T-Karmel]

But isn’t there also SWR and Cross Country trains at Reading, so why would anyone be told don’t use GWR specifically rather than must use TfL

Considering Freedom Pass is valid on Reading - Paddington line only and customer already know that, then the main thing is to remind them they can use it on TfL Rail and not on GWR.

Use of invalid tickets on SWR trains from Reading (Freedom Pass or Contactless for example) is a separate big issue, however you will not remind every single passenger entering with contactless that they can use it to Paddington but not Waterloo. And what if they enter with Contactless to go to Oxford? You'll only tell them they can't if they specifically come forward and ask you if they can use it.

And I heard many many times "Oh but I asked in Waterloo/Reading, they said I can use contactless to Staines/Egham/Ascot/Reading!"

You can't prevent everything but you can prevent some of ticket irregularities from happening.

 

[Aictos]

Whats the logic in issuing a pass that permits travel, but doesn’t allow you to enter/exit the end station.

Good point, I know of one rail operator who issues passes for contractors who work on their behalf who have been issued said passes for duty travel only but they won't work on the gatelines.

Surely any pass that a operator issues to staff be directly or indirectly employed by them should be able to work on any gateline at any station served by that operator or is that asking too much?

 

[matt_world2004]

Considering Freedom Pass is valid on Reading - Paddington line only and customer already know that, then the main thing is to remind them they can use it on TfL Rail and not on GWR.

Use of invalid tickets on SWR trains from Reading (Freedom Pass or Contactless for example) is a separate big issue, however you will not remind every single passenger entering with contactless that they can use it to Paddington but not Waterloo. And what if they enter with Contactless to go to Oxford? You'll only tell them they can't if they specifically come forward and ask you if they can use it.

And I heard many many times "Oh but I asked in Waterloo/Reading, they said I can use contactless to Staines/Egham/Ascot/Reading!"

You can't prevent everything but you can prevent some of ticket irregularities from happening.

They typically don't remind you of the validity when you present it to the gateline at reading it's purely a technical reason the passes don't open the gates.

Likewise they don't open the gates at Langley or iver either despite them being valid on almost all trains there

 

[Hadders]

If someone enters at Reading using contactless but travels to Oxford, Waterloo etc they will get charged a maximum fare so at least 'the railway' gets something.

If a Freedom Pass holder was allowed through unchecked they could travel anywhere, and there's no provision for a maximum fare to be charged.

It's a right pain that Oyster isn't valid to Reading (or Luton Airport Parkway, Hatfield, Welwyn Garden City etc) but another reason is due to limitations of the Oyster card system itself as there are only 15 fare zones available and they're all being used.

 

[MikeWh]

If someone enters at Reading using contactless but travels to Oxford, Waterloo etc they will get charged a maximum fare so at least 'the railway' gets something.

Actually it would be interesting to know what the charge might be if they went to Waterloo. It could be two incomplete journeys (one a lot larger than the other) or there might be an unadvertised fare charged (perhaps the same as if they went to Paddington).

If anyone wants to try this I'd recommend having a Reading to Waterloo single as well in case of checks before Feltham.

 

[hkstudent]

Actually it would be interesting to know what the charge might be if they went to Waterloo. It could be two incomplete journeys (one a lot larger than the other) or there might be an unadvertised fare charged (perhaps the same as if they went to Paddington).

If anyone wants to try this I'd recommend having a Reading to Waterloo single as well in case of checks before Feltham.

I think it would be charged accordingly.
It is possible to travel to Ealing Broadway on Tfl Rail and change for District Line to Wimbledon via Earl's Court, and then heading to Waterloo NR, without passing through any barriers.
(Obviously, that "illogical", "Circuitous" NR to NR journey doesn't generate a fare on Single Fare Finder, just like Dartford - Liverpool Street / Fenchurch Street NR and East Croydon via Willesden Junction / Wembley Central - Euston NR)

It's a shame that Ealing Broadway - Clapham High Street is long gone.

 

[MikeWh]

That's a good spot via Ealing and Wimbledon.

Not sure about Dartford to Fenchurch Street, but from Crayford it charges correctly a z1-6 mixed NR+TfL journey.

 

[hkstudent]

That's a good spot via Ealing and Wimbledon.

Not sure about Dartford to Fenchurch Street, but from Crayford it charges correctly a z1-6 mixed NR+TfL journey.

This does raise an interesting question:
What if I travel from Crayford via Highbury & Islington to (via WIJ) Euston LO or (via SRA) Liverpool Street LO, will TfL correctly charge the journey as NR only journey?

 

[matt_world2004]

This does raise an interesting question:
What if I travel from Crayford via Highbury & Islington to (via WIJ) Euston LO or (via SRA) Liverpool Street LO, will TfL correctly charge the journey as NR only journey?

London Overground journeys are mostly charged at the tfl rate

 

[MikeWh]

London Overground journeys are mostly charged at the tfl rate

Any journey starting at Crayford will be either NR or NR+TfL.

This does raise an interesting question:
What if I travel from Crayford via Highbury & Islington to (via WIJ) Euston LO or (via SRA) Liverpool Street LO, will TfL correctly charge the journey as NR only journey?

Might have to give one of those a try at some point.

This does raise an interesting question:
What if I travel from Crayford via Highbury & Islington to (via WIJ) Euston LO or (via SRA) Liverpool Street LO, will TfL correctly charge the journey as NR only journey?

Having just looked at a map I think both those journeys are illogical. You end up going way further than you need just to keep on NR.

 

[flythetube]

Can't touch in and out at reading with a freedom pass /staff pass but you can travel.

Contractor Oyster that I have been issued with according to a check on a ticket machine shows that it is Open Ended (No Expiry Date) and valid for Zones 1 through to F (F being reserved for Elizabeth Line to Reading according to Wikipedia)

Although actual validity is bound by the zones printed on the accompanying Photocard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_in_London_fare_zones_7–9

 

[matt_world2004]

Contractor Oyster that I have been issued with according to a check on a ticket machine shows that it is Open Ended (No Expiry Date) and valid for Zones 1 through to F (F being reserved for Elizabeth Line to Reading according to Wikipedia)

Although actual validity is bound by the zones printed on the accompanying Photocard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_in_London_fare_zones_7–9

Yes, mine said 1-15+W in 2014 so they were still issuing first generations quite late. Ive seen MTR Staff with dark blue oystercards marked gateline passes at iver and langley . So there is definitely second generation oystercards about that can open the gatelines beyond Iver. I was speaking to agency staff at west drayton and they are not issued contractor oysters for travel. Which sucks.

 

[Taunton]

I notice that Freedom Pass and TfL Pass do not bear PAY value in the card and acted as the same as Travelcard in London.
Do they need to touch in / out at a non-barriered station e.g a DLR station ...

One wonders then why DLR train crew scan in Freedom Passes during ticket checks rather than just see what it is

 

[matt_world2004]

One wonders then why DLR train crew scan in Freedom Passes during ticket checks rather than just see what it is

To make sure it hasn't been reported stolen and to record they have checked the pass. For statistical purposes

 

[hkstudent]

Any journey starting at Crayford will be either NR or NR+TfL.


Might have to give one of those a try at some point.


Having just looked at a map I think both those journeys are illogical. You end up going way further than you need just to keep on NR.

Or another reason is: bringing a full-sized bike which would require avoiding deep tubes.

 

[matt_world2004]

Or another reason is: bringing a full-sized bike which would require avoiding deep tubes.

It would actually be quicker than to walk through zone 1 than going via willesden junction

Wouldn't it be easier going via new cross if you are avoiding deep tubes. You get charged tfl rate on the east London line though

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Good point, I know of one rail operator who issues passes for contractors who work on their behalf who have been issued said passes for duty travel only but they won't work on the gatelines.

Surely any pass that a operator issues to staff be directly or indirectly employed by them should be able to work on any gateline at any station served by that operator or is that asking too much?

It’s a good way of checking at the barrier it’s duty travel the pass is being used for and not abused.

 

[matt_world2004]

It’s a good way of checking at the barrier it’s duty travel the pass is being used for and not abused.

TfL issue Contractor passes on Oyster now. The journey history is audited occasionally to check for travel outside working hours (Although some are valid For residential but not leisure travel )

A few years ago they audited all the contractor passes and it showed a few being used at weekend and they disciplined /dismissed some of the contractors it turned out they had noted the contractor pass numbers down incorrectly and some of the pass numbers associated with the pass actually belonged to someone else. Who was travelling for work related purposes at the weekend.

These were staff who were in zero hours contracts they lost work/money because of a data inputting error As it took time for it to be sorted. No one kicked up because they didn't want to be punished