Freightliner Class 86/6 fleet

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Some are to go for recycling once the 90s ex Anglia arrive but I understand it’s withdrawal of the worst examples first not total replacement.
 

DBS92042

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I noticed 86627 has a new pantograph and other roof equipment the other day, so Freightliner are still investing in the fleet for now.
 

D365

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I wonder if Freightliner will allow any 86/6s to be used on Railtours?
Can't see why anyone would ask Freightliner when there's several specialist rail tour operators that own/operate Class 86s. Especially as the Freightliner locomotives, most likely, do not have working ETH supplies (electrical train heating).
 

matt

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Can't see why anyone would ask Freightliner when there's several specialist rail tour operators that own/operate Class 86s. Especially as the Freightliner locomotives, most likely, do not have working ETH supplies (electrical train heating).
You could say the same thing about why class 66's are used. 86/6 are an attraction for haulage enthusiasts as them working passengers trains is a lot rarer.
 

Whistler40145

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50039

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Today's 1433 Felixstowe North F.L.T. to Coatbridge F.L.T. left Ipswich 90 minutes late and had three Class 86 locomotives at the front when it passed me in London. I wonder if one of them was a failure.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H49978/2020-04-03/detailed
According to Twitter (post by last nights driver - sorry, don’t know to link it here), 86612 is being moved back north with pantograph damage. The triple header southbound was to get a replacement in place
 

The Bear

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I've always wondered why they are used in pairs. Why is this? The Freightliner ones only have 3600hp, yet this is more than a class 66, which are used singly. Is it to do with tractive effort?
Could be for reliability reasons
From memory the 86/6s run in pairs manly for braking.

A few years ago is was decided among operators to run the 90s in pairs for reliability reasons apparently but soon afterwards it was decided to switch out some traction-motors for fears of overloading the OHLE supply.
 

ABB125

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From memory the 86/6s run in pairs manly for braking.

A few years ago is was decided among operators to run the 90s in pairs for reliability reasons apparently but soon afterwards it was decided to switch out some traction-motors for fears of overloading the OHLE supply.
That's interesting; are class 90s not very reliable then, or is it more a case of "we've got loads of them which we're note fully utilising, we might as well run them in pairs so we'll never break down sice it won't really cost us much to do so"?
 

dk1

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That's interesting; are class 90s not very reliable then, or is it more a case of "we've got loads of them which we're note fully utilising, we might as well run them in pairs so we'll never break down sice it won't really cost us much to do so"?
They are very reliable. Plan is for extra power to,operate them in multiple. Following extensive testing last year that will be with 1 motor on each loco being isolated when working like this.
 

The Bear

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That's interesting; are class 90s not very reliable then, or is it more a case of "we've got loads of them which we're note fully utilising, we might as well run them in pairs so we'll never break down sice it won't really cost us much to do so"?
They are very reliable. Plan is for extra power to,operate them in multiple. Following extensive testing last year that will be with 1 motor on each loco being isolated when working like this.
dk1, you got there before I could......

I also forgot to mention that most Anglo-Scottish intermodals are also probably too heavy now for a single 90.

On the subject of cost; I recall in April 2015 when pairs of 90s took over from 92s on the 4M25/4S47 intermodal diagram it was said that DB had found it cheaper from a maintenance point of view to run pairs of 90s rather than a single 92.

Also at the same time the 6L35/6X77 car train diagram also went from class92 to single 90.
 

xotGD

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I thought the need for pairs of electric locos on freights was down to tractive effort?
 

captainbigun

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They are very reliable. Plan is for extra power to,operate them in multiple. Following extensive testing last year that will be with 1 motor on each loco being isolated when working like this.
They used to run with a motor on each loco cut out but subsequent modification means this is no longer required. Overall current draw is now managed such that they can run all four motors.

Running pairs is down to TE and not braking. A single loco is quite capable of charging the brakes.
 

dk1

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They used to run with a motor on each loco cut out but subsequent modification means this is no longer required. Overall current draw is now managed such that they can run all four motors.

Running pairs is down to TE and not braking. A single loco is quite capable of charging the brakes.
Of course its capable of charging the brakes. I dont recall saying it wouldnt. Hadnt heard of any subsequent mods. Last I was told earlier this year was that they'd both be on 3 legs.
 

apk55

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The normal reason for running a pair of locomotives is starting tractive effort. If this is not high enough then there is a possibility of a train stalling on a steep upgrade or the motors overheating. Cutting out a motor would mean you lose some of tractive effort and make the train slower to start - very undesirable.
Power consumption at starting is quite low (remember power = tractive effort X speed) but will rise with speed. If power demand is a problem then it would be better restrict power demand at speed. If a driver can not be relied on to do this then it would not be difficult to do this with some minor mods to the control circuit. On a class 86 this could be done by locking out the top notches of the tap changer and on a class 90 some calibration changes to the control electronics.
 

captainbigun

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Of course its capable of charging the brakes. I dont recall saying it wouldnt. Hadnt heard of any subsequent mods. Last I was told earlier this year was that they'd both be on 3 legs.
Mod in conjunction with FL, DBC and NR. Productionised now.

Brake comment was in response to another post.
 

Class 170101

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Also the fact that 1600tinnes doesn't work particularly well timetable wise on the GEML with one Class 66 on the down road.

Only pairs of Class 86s can maintain it on current timings.
 

Richard Scott

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The normal reason for running a pair of locomotives is starting tractive effort. If this is not high enough then there is a possibility of a train stalling on a steep upgrade or the motors overheating. Cutting out a motor would mean you lose some of tractive effort and make the train slower to start - very undesirable.
Power consumption at starting is quite low (remember power = tractive effort X speed) but will rise with speed. If power demand is a problem then it would be better restrict power demand at speed. If a driver can not be relied on to do this then it would not be difficult to do this with some minor mods to the control circuit. On a class 86 this could be done by locking out the top notches of the tap changer and on a class 90 some calibration changes to the control electronics.
Don't forget tractive effort falls with speed so power consumption probably fairly linear, may be slightly lower at starting so as not to overload motors as current will be high.
 

50039

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Hi - not sure if it’s been covered elsewhere - but is there a list of regular workings for pairs of 86s on the southern section of the WCML, and presumably onwards to Felixstowe?

They seem to be fairly fixed, so far I believe I have identified the following heading south:

21:25 Coatbridge to Felixstowe
06:00 Crewe to Felixstowe
05:00 Trafford Park to Felixstowe

Going north, I know of:
11:12 Felixstowe to Trafford Park
Added:
14:33 Felixstowe to Coatbridge

I think most of those are right, but if there are three going to Felixstowe (well, Ipswich) then there must be two more that I don’t know of returning north?

Also, not aware of any on Saturdays?
 
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