Freightliner Class 86/6 fleet

XCTurbostar

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I’m pleseantly surprised no-one has thrown up the wording on Freightliner’s latest press release on the class 90s/86s.
https://www.gwrr.co.uk/news...
Some of the [Class 90] locomotives will replace the ageing class 86 fleet which will be retired from service until they can be overhauled and re-introduced as Freightliner expands its electrically hauled services.
 
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D365

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I’m pleseantly surprised no-one has thrown up the wording on Freightliner’s latest press release on the class 90s/86s.

Very intriguing. Seems like everyone except DB is suffering from a shortage of electric traction!
 

sjm77

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Just a random question; Electric locomotives are known to be more efficient than diesel, but both evolve with time. Therefore how would a modern class 70 compare with a 55 year old pair of class 86s when hauling a heavy container train?
 

furnessvale

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Just a random question; Electric locomotives are known to be more efficient than diesel, but both evolve with time. Therefore how would a modern class 70 compare with a 55 year old pair of class 86s when hauling a heavy container train?
I suppose that depends just where the efficiencies over time have come from.

In a diesel locomotive, the engine itself has become more efficient but just how much has the electrical side developed?

I would hazard a guess that even a modern diesel would have trouble matching an old electric given that the electric loco, as old as it is, can use solar, wind, nuclear or any other method of generation.
 

XCTurbostar

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I suppose that depends just where the efficiencies over time have come from.

In a diesel locomotive, the engine itself has become more efficient but just how much has the electrical side developed?

I would hazard a guess that even a modern diesel would have trouble matching an old electric given that the electric loco, as old as it is, can use solar, wind, nuclear or any other method of generation.
I'm guessing this is the reason Freightliner have an aspiration to 'overhaul' them before re-introduction. The more they iron out the little electrical niggles of a 55 year old loco, the more and more efficient it becomes.

Do we know what the difference between 66, 86 and (current) 90s distance between failures?
 

The Chimaera

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Makes you wonder how far they will go with the 'overhaul', surely the control equipment must be on its last legs by now. Thyrister 86 anyone?
 

50039

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There must also be the issue of track access charges to consider? How do they compare and is there an ‘incentive’ to use electric traction?
 

furnessvale

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There must also be the issue of track access charges to consider? How do they compare and is there an ‘incentive’ to use electric traction?
The original 86s certainly battered the track. At least they only need to go at 75mph now.
 

furnessvale

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You would think that considering they're only just over 10 years old but some of the 70s have been out of action for several years now.
My preferred platform for a prototype reengineered loco into an electro diesel has been a 66, simply because of the numbers available for a later production run.

Given the numbers of 70s sitting about with problems, maybe one of those would be a better bet.
 

xotGD

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If Freightliner are so desperate for electric traction that they are going to overhaul their Cans, perhaps there is still hope for 90050?
 

hst43102

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If Freightliner are so desperate for electric traction that they are going to overhaul their Cans, perhaps there is still hope for 90050?
I very much doubt it. Have you seen any pictures of it's state?

 

Murray J

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I don't think they're that desperate, although I do wonder if DB have any 90s or even 92s stored that are in a relatively serviceable condition?
 

CW2

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Who owns 90050 anyway? I understood that EWS / DBS provided 90016 as a replacement after admitting their culpability in the catastrophic failure of 90050, following maintenance carried out by them on behalf of Freightliner. So do Freightliner own 90050, or was it swapped with 90016 so that it (90050) is now technically a DBS loco?
 

rebmcr

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If Freightliner are so desperate for electric traction that they are going to overhaul their Cans, perhaps there is still hope for 90050?

I very much doubt it. Have you seen any pictures of it's state?

Bodypanels and paint are trivial to remedy, what matters are things nobody can tell from a photo — electronics, wiring, and traction motors.
 

43096

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Bodypanels and paint are trivial to remedy, what matters are things nobody can tell from a photo — electronics, wiring, and traction motors.
It's sat on scrap bogies (ex-Class 87) and has been heavily robbed for spares. That's before you even look at the fire damage that caused its demise.
 

hst43102

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Bodypanels and paint are trivial to remedy, what matters are things nobody can tell from a photo — electronics, wiring, and traction motors.
It had a fire. The windows are broken and water has probably ruined any electronics and wiring still in there...
 

50039

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Curious as to the ‘overhaul’... will it be ‘fix them up and get them back out there‘, using spares etc from donor locos, or if there is a genuine need/desire to increase the electric fleet, will it be more substantial - more like GBRF are doing with 56/69s? If it were to be the latter, then presumably any bodyshell could be re-engineered.

Reading elsewhere about further electrification coming - Felixstowe and odd links in North London - so there could be lots of opportunity for more electric traction - but no idea how the costs compare to running 66/70s...??
 

hst43102

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Reading elsewhere about further electrification coming - Felixstowe and odd links in North London - so there could be lots of opportunity for more electric traction - but no idea how the costs compare to running 66/70s...??

Felixstowe electrification should have been done years ago.
 

CW2

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The problem of electrifying to Felixstowe is: Who pays?
The passenger usage of the branch is comparatively light so wouldn't justify the expenditure in its own right.
It seems obvious to electrify for the benefit of the freight traffic, but would the FOCs ever see a financial payback from the significant sums required to electrify? There would be cost savings from avoiding the traction changes and reduced fuel bills, and possibly some traincrew savings too, but would they ever recoup the capital costs?
You can't electrify right into the intermodal terminals because the OLE is not compatible with loading / unloading intermodal traffic using cranes, so some form of exchange sidings would need to be the limit of electrification, with a pilot loco(s) shuttling to and fro as required. Would the terminl owner be expected to pick up any of the bill?
So it's obviously a Good Thing, but equally obviously nobody wants to pay for it.
 

Matt1983

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I’m pleseantly surprised no-one has thrown up the wording on Freightliner’s latest press release on the class 90s/86s.
https://www.gwrr.co.uk/news...
This confirms something I read when the first 90 was repainted into orange. On Freightliner's Twitter feed a poster said it was a shame no 86's would ever be repainted or something similar and Freightliner responded with a 'watch this space!' or words to that effect. Would be great to see.
 

MB162435

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Who owns 90050 anyway? I understood that EWS / DBS provided 90016 as a replacement after admitting their culpability in the catastrophic failure of 90050, following maintenance carried out by them on behalf of Freightliner. So do Freightliner own 90050, or was it swapped with 90016 so that it (90050) is now technically a DBS loco?
In the Rail Guide 2020, it is listed as a DB Loco so I would say it is under DB ownership now
 

MB162435

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90050 is owned by Freightliner.

Thanks for the correction, just checked the Guide and it is indeed listed as owned by Freightliner but in the DB fleet list, thought I'd probably just misremembered what it said
 

43096

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Thanks for the correction, just checked the Guide and it is indeed listed as owned by Freightliner but in the DB fleet list, thought I'd probably just misremembered what it said
It’s actually changed hands a few times in recent years. After the fire, ownership of 90016 and 90050 was swapped between EWS and Porterbrook so that 90016 replaced it in the Freightliner fleet. Some time later LNWR purchased it for spares use from DB when they had the Freightliner maintenance contract. It has since transferred ownership to Freightliner for further parts recovery.

Here endeth the history lesson...!
 

MB162435

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It’s actually changed hands a few times in recent years. After the fire, ownership of 90016 and 90050 was swapped between EWS and Porterbrook so that 90016 replaced it in the Freightliner fleet. Some time later LNWR purchased it for spares use from DB when they had the Freightliner maintenance contract. It has since transferred ownership to Freightliner for further parts recovery.

Here endeth the history lesson...!
Wow, didn't realise how complicated 050's life was, thanks for the info about it, as I thought it only jumped ship once but as you say you could do a whole documentary over 90050's life!
 

CW2

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Yes,thanks for that.I think it is safe to conclude it is unlikely ever to run again.
 

USRailFan

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I've always wondered why they are used in pairs. Why is this? The Freightliner ones only have 3600hp, yet this is more than a class 66, which are used singly. Is it to do with tractive effort?

Haven't they ran in pairs - at leat on WCML Freightliners - ever since BR days?
 

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