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Fridge Thrown Onto Tracks

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Jonny

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It doesn't really matter what the outcome was. The action of throwing any objects onto a railway with intent to endanger passengers is an offence in its own right that carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

... as is wilfully obstructing the railway.
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With respect, this is why we don't let victims of crime decide on guilt or punishment. A justice system cannot be run on emotive judgement.

Indeed, there are sentencing guidelines for nearly everything in order to standardise punishments.
 
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anme

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You think 20 years for a deliberate act that ends someone else's life is a knee-jerk reaction? I bet you wouldn't if that person was someone close to you.

What's your view on car drivers speeding?
 

Dent

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You think 20 years for a deliberate act that ends someone else's life is a knee-jerk reaction? I bet you wouldn't if that person was someone close to you.

If it were someone close to you you would be likely to be in an emotional state that would cloud your judgement and make it more difficult to make a balanced, objective assessment of the most appropriate sentence. That is assuming you even had the legal expertise to make such an assessment in the first place.

Why should what someone might feel if they are in no fit state to consider all the issues objectively be a guide to what is appropriate? Any assessment made by someone in such a state is highly likely to be a knee-jerk reaction, and for that reason should not be taken too seriously.

The whole "someone close to you" argument makes no real sense, and is obviously just an attempt to use emotional manipulation to override rational reasoning.
 

cjmillsnun

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I am not saying that this type of offence is not serious, and during my almost 40 years ad a Railwayman I have seen my share of damage caused by trespass and vandalism.

I am not saying that a custodial sentence may not be appropriate in some instances, but 20 years just sounded like a knee jerk Daily Mail influenced reaction.

There are many ways to restrict someone's liberty without locking them up. And these means are cheaper than the prison option.

And if prison is as cushy as some like to think, how will it benefit anyone?

As regards what action would I take? That would depend on so many variables that I don't think that I would like to make sweeping assessments of punitive actions.

Had that train derailed at speed, it could've caused many fatalities.

As it is, there were severe delays, a driver suffering from shock and maybe more long term, and a few thousand pounds worth of damage.

Yes, a long custodial sentence is very appropriate in this case.
 

Smudger105e

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Had that train derailed at speed, it could've caused many fatalities.

As it is, there were severe delays, a driver suffering from shock and maybe more long term, and a few thousand pounds worth of damage.

Yes, a long custodial sentence is very appropriate in this case.
The train did not derail. There were no injuries. 20 years? I think not.

I don't want people to get the impression that I think that there should be no consequences for this offense, but I truly believe that the punishment should fit the crime.

If someone drives a car over the alcohol limit, they are not automatically imprisoned. But the consequence of the decision to drive could be multiple fatalities depending on the circumstances. So if you take into account what might happen with any action, then a custodial sentence would be equally as appropriate, wouldn't it?
 

sbt

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As a random benchmark, back in 1865, in an era not noted for its gentility toward miscreants, a life sentence, with 20 years of that behind bars, was what was substituted in the event someone narrowly escaped a sentence of death.
 

DarloRich

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I see we are getting the usual level of frothing, wibble and a complete lack of understanding of the criminal justice system in this country - as per normal! Try looking up the following:

1) Intent. Only a direct and specific intent will support a conviction & mere recklessness is not sufficient to establish the mens rea.
2) Reasonable doubt -
3) R v Creamer [1966] 1 QB 72 at 81

To anyone suggesting anything other than a maximum tariff of 90000 years for any offense involving the railway: save your breath.
 

TDK

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This didn't end someone else's life though did it.

Nor does someone drink driving having an accident on most occasions but they go to prison sometimes.

Someone pointing an unloaded gun as a police officer will go to prison but there is no intent of hurting anyone
 
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GB

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The length of a custodial sentence based on the potential outcome of an incident is the point in question, not whether any custodial sentence is warranted in the first place.

In the gun example you gave I would fully expect there to be a prison sentence. But I would not expect an automatic 20 year (or whatever) sentence as suggested by some...unless there are other factors involved.

If someone is jailed for drink driving then I would imagine there would be aggravating circumstances to get to that point. But again I wouldn't support an automatic 20 year sentence just because what could have happened.
 

EbbwJunction1

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Whilst the incident could have been very serious, is there any proof that the fridge was thrown onto the line with the intent to endanger life?

I've seen plenty of large objects dumped on the sides of lines, sometimes where it would have been very difficult to get them there in the first place. However, I don't recall too many (if any) cases of endangering life being brought. It's just a thought, but could this just be a case of fly tipping by very careless people?
 

xfield

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Whilst the incident could have been very serious, is there any proof that the fridge was thrown onto the line with the intent to endanger life?

I've seen plenty of large objects dumped on the sides of lines, sometimes where it would have been very difficult to get them there in the first place. However, I don't recall too many (if any) cases of endangering life being brought. It's just a thought, but could this just be a case of fly tipping by very careless people?

My thoughts exactly. My train to work travels through an area where the embankments are strewn with TVs, sofas, wardrobes, rubbish, garden furniture, a massive teddy, etc. Some people just see the railway as landfill.
 

Antman

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My thoughts exactly. My train to work travels through an area where the embankments are strewn with TVs, sofas, wardrobes, rubbish, garden furniture, a massive teddy, etc. Some people just see the railway as landfill.

Indeed and whilst in no way condoning fly tipping could it be that their intention wasn't for it to go onto the track? I don't know I wasn't there but obviously a court would listen to all the facts before passing sentence.
 

antharro

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Sad to hear this is happened on my home patch. I recall something similar happened some years ago - a cement mixer meeting the front of a (then new) 442. I'd have to look it up, but I wonder if the locations were the same. There's something to be said for covers over bridges these days, tho it is a sad reflection on society. And I completely agree with locking these idiots up. After they've picked up all the pieces of the fridge. By hand. And bits of train. Then apologized to everyone on the train for delaying their journey and to the driver for scaring the hell out of him. Or her.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Sad to hear this is happened on my home patch. I recall something similar happened some years ago - a cement mixer meeting the front of a (then new) 442. I'd have to look it up, but I wonder if the locations were the same. There's something to be said for covers over bridges these days, tho it is a sad reflection on society. And I completely agree with locking these idiots up. After they've picked up all the pieces of the fridge. By hand. And bits of train. Then apologized to everyone on the train for delaying their journey and to the driver for scaring the hell out of him. Or her.

That was between Poole and Parkstone Stations, i vaguely remember seeing a picture when it happened of the 442 hanging over the edge of the bridge (anyone have a photo of that). I believe the 442 involved was originally due to form one of the services involved in the Clapham crash
 
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