Fuel by rail

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Kestral HS4000, 15 Jan 2020.

  1. Kestral HS4000

    Kestral HS4000 Member

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    Does anyone know why only Ipswich and Neville Hill are the only mpd's to receive their fuel by rail depots such as Doncaster and Beshford hall must use a massive amount
     
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  3. Edders23

    Edders23 Member

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    It's cheaper by road ;)
     
  4. Dunfanaghy Rd

    Dunfanaghy Rd Member

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    Also bear in mind the source of the fuel. For example, Fawley stopped dispatching Gas Oil by rail after the plant was upgraded to produce low-sulphur product. (Esso's antipathy to rail must have had a bearing of course.) The new plant produced DERV only; Gas Oil was produced by Hamble from DERV piped under Southampton Water. No rail connection to Hamble any more, so . . .
    BTW, before this Fawley did dispatch Gas Oil to depots as far as Peak Forest, due to their high-sulphur product being significantly cheaper than sources such as Lindsey, even though further away.
    Pat
     
  5. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I wonder if Neville Hill might be to do with road access on site being a bit of a pain (or at least it looks like it would be). So bringing a full size articulated tanker might be quite a complex and difficult job versus bringing a small rake of rail tankers might be simpler.
     
  6. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Rail fuel has been low sulphur since 1/1/2012 when the spec was virtually aligned with road diesel.

    A parallel overall aim was to reduce the number of fuel grades in the distribution system and reduce storage + pipeline issues. Hence much easier to pipe it most of the way and do the last bit by road now.
     
  7. Dr Hoo

    Dr Hoo Established Member

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    In general terms traction fuel is not needed in ‘trainload’ quantities. With the trend to electrification and bi-modes this is only going to become more pronounced. Equipment utilisation would be poor. Given the general shortage of depot space for longer trains it would often be hard to justify tying up space for occasional fuel delivery by rail.
     
  8. trebor79

    trebor79 Established Member

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    Crown Point must be delivered by rail of have thought? There's only very limited road access.
     
  9. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Crown Point has been served by road tanker since the early 1990s. It's not a problem really.
     
  10. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Ipswich cannot be served by road in its current location.
     
  11. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    The closure of wagonload services meant that traction fuel and many other less than trainload products were lost to road.
     
  12. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    Another factor in stopping rail tanks car loads from Fawley was the loading racks were worn out. They were a bit run down when I visited Fawley yard for work purposes in the 1970's. Some of the tank cars dated back to the late 1960's and had been refurbished a couple of times. Overall not so much a dislike of rail transport but of renewal costs....

    By the way Hamble was never a refinery, only a storage and distribution depot which receives most of its product by sea. More details about Hamble Road Sidings and oil terminal appear in a book by Dave Marden - A Further Look at Southampton's Quayside Railways.

    DERV (Army acronym for Diesel Engined Road Vehicle), diesel fuel and gas oil are the same product for transport purposes - UN Dangerous Goods number 1202. ( For TOPS commodity codes it was coded Traction Gas Oil which ensured it was charged at a different rate to diesel fuel moved as a commercial product.)
     
  13. Dunfanaghy Rd

    Dunfanaghy Rd Member

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    DERV is produced by Fawley, piped under the Water and dyed to make Gas Oil.
    OT I know, but after the last rail movements from Fawley (after I finished) I heard that ESSO wanted to take over all the rail land in the site. They were unaware (allegedly) that the ex-BR line to the station and associated sidings belonged to Network Rail.
    Pat
     
  14. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    and sometimes easier!
     
  15. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    The normal access is very tight underneath Trowse bridge, but there is a secondary access via a level crossing at the other end of the site.
     
  16. heedfan

    heedfan Member

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    You can get large vehicles into Neville Hill - it happens regularly for bogies or rail vehicles to be moved by road - but it's certainly not straight forward. Large vehicles tend to block the road so it becomes difficult for staff to enter or leave the site. I also understand that historically there has been opposition from local residents regarding the number of tankers that would be required per day if the fuel were to be delivered by road.
     
  17. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    Fuel by Rail to Freightliner, Ipswich, will end on completion of their new depot at 'Upper Yard'.
    Delivery will be by road tanker to static storage tanks (2 no., each 100,000 litres)
     
  18. Kestral HS4000

    Kestral HS4000 Member

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    Thanks for your ideas most of them i agree with but if Edders 23 is right (and I think he is) who subsidizes Kingsburys massive flows from LOR and CONOCO
     
  19. Dr Hoo

    Dr Hoo Established Member

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    I think the point is that regular 3,000-tonne trains to Kingsbury are rather more efficient than occasional handfuls of wagons to a traction depot where they are actually an operational nuisance amid the main activity.
    What ‘subsidy’ do you think exists for block petroleum train flows?
     
  20. Edders23

    Edders23 Member

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    You need the same number of locos and train crew to move a 3000 tonne load as you do to move a 200 tonne load economy of scale !
     
  21. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Yes. Tankers & other larger lorries cross over Cremourne Lane level crossing outside Crown Point Panel signal box. Often there is a very long wait between trains/shunting.
     

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