Full size bikes on trains

[2dmuppet]

Morning all,

Just had a rather upsetting journey into Cambridge this morning, so thought I would ask if anybody else has had similar experiences. Call it a bit of group therapy

We have a great many commuters to Cambridge on the Great Northern line who travel by Bike, sometimes they can be three deep in the vestibule areas. These Bikes have to go somewhere, but if they block access then it's an issue, which they often do.

Now, I travel first class, and before all sympathy for my plight is withdraw, please note I am neither posh or rich. It's entirely down to the soppy reason that it will guarantee me a seat next to my lovely wife on such a crowded service.

Unfortunately, it is a semi-regular occurrence that bikes are placed across the doors, blocking access to the compartment.

I normally have to ask people to move them and I usually get the usual disgruntled, indignant responses.

I've had a previous occasion where I asked somebody to move their bike, and then they proceeded to put it back, blocking me in the compartment!

Today was a bit different. Nobody laid claim to owning the bike - that was until I attempted to move it. 'That's my bike!, don't touch my bike'. I was now villain #1. Horrible. It upset me more than it should.

There used to be regulations about full size bikes on peak time trains, but this does not appear to be the case now. I don't understand why this reg. has been gradually eroded.

Has anybody else had incidents with less than courteous bike owners?

I've had a cup of tea and a sit-down now.

 

[JamesT]

Morning all,

There used to be regulations about full size bikes on peak time trains, but this does not appear to be the case now. I don't understand why this reg. has been gradually eroded.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/93786.aspx states restrictions on bikes. Of course, enforcement may be quite another matter.

 

[DarloRich]

Storm in a tea cup - it isnt worth getting yourself in a state over.

 

[al78]

I haven't had any problems myself with cyclists, however that is the reason I nearly always use my folding bike if I am planning a rail journey. It is sometimes the case that even if you try to bring a standard bike on an off peak service, thinking it will be lightly loaded, the bike spaces will be full of people standing around, even if there is plenty of space to sit down, or it will be full of luggage. My folder will fit nicely into the vertical luggage rack.

I didn't think guards allow more than a few bikes on board. I slipped up once when cycling in Scotland and trying to get on a train at Ardgay. I'd cycled 35 miles to get there, and when the train arrived the guard (or driver) said "sorry, no more space", so I had to cycle another 35 miles to get to Inverness.

 

[Ianno87]

Don't get upset. You were perfectly reasonable in taking it upon yourself to move a bike blocking you in the compartment.

"Well don't leave it blocking me in" would have been a reasonable response to "don't touch my bike"

 

[2dmuppet]

Very true. Essentially, what my wife said

 

[SPADTrap]

I've opened a platform side door at a station call to board a 365 only to have a bike fall out as the doors popped open. I didn't even see it through the doors but the bikes owner decided I had done it in purpose. I felt really bad until they went for me.

 

[sefton]

Last time nobody claimed ownership promptly, I just moved it out of the way and put it on the platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The issue I think is that those trains are DOO so nobody is there to enforce any ban nor the limit of 2.

 

[DarloRich]

Don't get upset. You were perfectly reasonable in taking it upon yourself to move a bike blocking you in the compartment.

"Well don't leave it blocking me in" would have been a reasonable response to "don't touch my bike"

i think my response may have been slightly more robust and industrial!

The issue I think is that those trains are DOO so nobody is there to enforce any ban nor the limit of 2.

it is also difficult to enforce a ban with a guard. We often have 4 or 5 bikes on the Vale and the guards seem to take a practical view. I assume their views are that it isnt fair to leave someone at a deserted country station for an hour until the next train arrives with no guarentee they can get on that one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's actually LM policy to carry more than 2 on the Marston Vale where feasible, I've seen a poster at Bletchley about it regarding using both ends of a 153 but the need to alight if a wheelchair user wishes to board and you're at that end. Quite pragmatic really; many users are at the lower end of the economic scale and use train+bike to get to (often shift) work, e.g. train one way and bike the other, and wheelchair users are unlikely because Bletchley is not accessible on platform 6[1].

I'd expect the 230s to have a lot of bike space if they have any sense. At busy times it would double as standing room so not be wasted.

[1] Which was a terrible piece of cheapness by NSE when the lifts were fitted. I guess they assumed the Vale would close in short order. But really they need to start using 5 instead as a matter of course except for a couple of peak trains where it is used for another purpose, these could be marked in the timetable.

 

[DarloRich]

It's actually LM policy to carry more than 2 on the Marston Vale where feasible, I've seen a poster at Bletchley about it regarding using both ends of a 153 but the need to alight if a wheelchair user wishes to board and you're at that end. Quite pragmatic really; many users are at the lower end of the economic scale and use train+bike to get to (often shift) work, e.g. train one way and bike the other, and wheelchair users are unlikely because Bletchley is not accessible on platform 6[1].

I'd expect the 230s to have a lot of bike space if they have any sense. At busy times it would double as standing room so not be wasted.

[1] Which was a terrible piece of cheapness by NSE when the lifts were fitted. I guess they assumed the Vale would close in short order. But really they need to start using 5 instead as a matter of course except for a couple of peak trains where it is used for another purpose, these could be marked in the timetable.

5 is used *most* of the time now but it isnt certain. The policy is now, I think, 4 bikes at the discretion of the guard

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose 5 sometimes gets nicked for other purposes, such as yesterday when a train was failed in 4 and so all southbound LMs were brought through the "carriage siding" lines (actually running lines 5 and 6 I think) into 5.

 

[arb]

There used to be regulations about full size bikes on peak time trains, but this does not appear to be the case now. I don't understand why this reg. has been gradually eroded.

There is an in-depth analysis of the rules on full size bikes around Cambridge at https://grumpytrainuser.wordpress.c...-of-contradictory-ambiguous-and-absurd-rules/

 

[PeterC]

There is an in-depth analysis of the rules on full size bikes around Cambridge at https://grumpytrainuser.wordpress.c...-of-contradictory-ambiguous-and-absurd-rules/

That's the trouble with the public. They seem to imagine that the railway is supposed to be a single integrated service.

 

[stut]

Sigh.

All it would take to solve this would be secure bike parking at both ends of the journey, with decent facilities. But we don't get that.

We get quite a lot of bike parking now, but generally with partial CCTV cover, and unmaintained facilities. If you had, for example, full CCTV cover, access cards for a subscription fee, and properly maintained stand pumps (and a quick maintenance stall, perhaps - not one where you have to book a "service" a week in advance, one that will patch a puncture for a couple of quid), then it would work.

But take my journey, for example. When I cycle, I cycle from Hitchin over the hills, so I need a decent, light bike. There's a lot of racks there, but they're just in the car park, and there's been a lot of thefts reports, with no recovery. There's a stand pump, which is great, but it's been broken for over a year now, and requests to fix it get ignored. So there's no way I'm leaving my commuter bike at Hitchin station.

I can, by the rules, take it on the train. I do my best to keep it out the way, alight and re-board if needed to accommodate, but it's far from ideal. And of course, there's the stairs to negotiate at Biggleswade (after the crowds squeeze out of the far-too-small staircase) which is never fun. I'd much rather not have to bother with all that faff, but it's really not set up for me to do otherwise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The racks have just been redone at Bletchley, including a pump and stuff like that, getting rid of the old bikes abandoned there (they are stacked on the boarded-off old bay platform if anyone lost one and wants it back, talk to staff and I'd imagine they will get it for you), more stands (both double decker and Sheffield type, the latter are more popular but the extra capacity is useful) and 6 very visible CCTV cameras.

I'm quite happy with it, TBH, and have told LM so. Was surprised to see it done at the end of the franchise.

Access cards are an interesting idea but are a barrier for occasional users, so if you have that kind of facility you also need an open one as well.

 

[yorkie]

Has anybody else had incidents with less than courteous bike owners?

I don't travel on peak services of the sort you describe, so no. I have, however have incidents with less than courteous people occupying cycle spaces and being reluctant to move themselves or their suitcases when required

This problem is not unique to bikes. I experience huge suitcases blocking aisles and doorways on a frequent basis on the Manchester Airport trains.

 

[sportzbar]

Regarding suitcases I worked a service from Manchester airport yesterday evening. Passengers had piled up 5 or 6 cases against the cab door as we left. Naturally I gave them some words of encouragement as to remove them so I could access the cab and agreed that space was at a premium in the carriage.

Fast forward to Manchester Piccadilly I tried to open my cab and suprise suprise the cases had been stacked against the door again causing them to fall and one to open completely dumping underwear all over the floor.....

 

[stut]

The racks have just been redone at Bletchley, including a pump and stuff like that, getting rid of the old bikes abandoned there (they are stacked on the boarded-off old bay platform if anyone lost one and wants it back, talk to staff and I'd imagine they will get it for you), more stands (both double decker and Sheffield type, the latter are more popular but the extra capacity is useful) and 6 very visible CCTV cameras.

I'm quite happy with it, TBH, and have told LM so. Was surprised to see it done at the end of the franchise.

Which is great, but it's a question of maintenance and follow-up. If an overstretched police force aren't interested (or more fairly, don't have the capacity to be interested) in cycle theft, then the CCTV may as well not be there. If the stand pump breaks or is broken, will it be fixed (like I say, the one at Hitchin has been broken for the best part of a year now)?

Access cards are an interesting idea but are a barrier for occasional users, so if you have that kind of facility you also need an open one as well.

Oh yes, of course. If you're really advanced, you can also tie access cards into general travel smartcards, but I doubt we're there in terms of joined-upness.

This is a pretty standard setup in cycle-friendly countries, like the Netherlands and Denmark (although I'd add that Copenhagen takes the interesting step of providing carriages or half-carriages specifically for bikes on its commuter trains).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding suitcases I worked a service from Manchester airport yesterday evening. Passengers had piled up 5 or 6 cases against the cab door as we left. Naturally I gave them some words of encouragement as to remove them so I could access the cab and agreed that space was at a premium in the carriage.

Fast forward to Manchester Piccadilly I tried to open my cab and suprise suprise the cases had been stacked against the door again causing them to fall and one to open completely dumping underwear all over the floor.....

There are 3 problems here.

1. Lazy passengers who can't be bothered lifting cases into the overheads.

2. Lazy passengers who can't be bothered helping passengers who can't lift their cases into the overhead to do so.

3. Inadequate luggage provision (particularly on trains with small overheads e.g. *Stars).

All three need resolving, though the third is probably the easiest.

 

[syorksdeano]

Fast forward to Manchester Piccadilly I tried to open my cab and suprise suprise the cases had been stacked against the door again causing them to fall and one to open completely dumping underwear all over the floor.....

Least it didn't have certain toys like a certain mp likes to buy

Going back to bikes though as a passenger it annoys me where some on bikes think they own the train and refuse to move the bleeding things away from doors.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Part of the problem is that passengers often don't have long at stations and the cycle areas are rarely well-marked in possibly a long train.

Specialist areas of trains like cycle areas, wheelchair areas etc need marking properly. Properly is the likes of full body height pictograms or the very bright "tapes" Northern use on the doors. Properly is not a small bicycle sticker on the doors. You need to be able to see it clearly as a 12-car train rolls in and you have less than a minute to reach it. It also needs showing on the PIS with proper platform zone markings so you know where to stand to start with.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Part of the problem is that passengers often don't have long at stations and the cycle areas are rarely well-marked in possibly a long train.

Specialist areas of trains like cycle areas, wheelchair areas etc need marking properly. Properly is the likes of full body height pictograms or the very bright "tapes" Northern use on the doors. Properly is not a small bicycle sticker on the doors. You need to be able to see it clearly as a 12-car train rolls in and you have less than a minute to reach it. It also needs showing on the PIS with proper platform zone markings so you know where to stand to start with.

I don't travel on peak services of the sort you describe, so no. I have, however have incidents with less than courteous people occupying cycle spaces and being reluctant to move themselves or their suitcases when required

.

Well exactly. Whoever thought "let's put tip-up seats in the cycle space so we can create needless conflict between cyclists and other passengers" wants shooting. Whoever subsequently thought that TPE class 185s (which have this fault) would be ideal for Manchester Airpost services, where most travellers seem to be competing to see who can bring the biggest suitcase with them, wants shooting twice!

As I've mentioned on other cyclist-bashing threads, cycles take up far less space when stored vertically so carriages should be designed so that the cycle space is a) vertical and b) impractical to use for sitting or storing luggage. Possibly the only decent aspect of Cross Country's Voyagers is that they do have vertical cycle spaces and as a consequence it's rare to see anything but bikes in them!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree. Tip up seats in cycle and wheelchair spaces, and dual purpose cycle and wheelchair spaces, are a bad idea.

 

[InOban]

Which is great, but it's a question of maintenance and follow-up. If an overstretched police force aren't interested (or more fairly, don't have the capacity to be interested) in cycle theft, then the CCTV may as well not be there. If the stand pump breaks or is broken, will it be fixed (like I say, the one at Hitchin has been broken for the best part of a year now)?



Oh yes, of course. If you're really advanced, you can also tie access cards into general travel smartcards, but I doubt we're there in terms of joined-upness.

This is a pretty standard setup in cycle-friendly countries, like the Netherlands and Denmark (although I'd add that Copenhagen takes the interesting step of providing carriages or half-carriages specifically for bikes on its commuter trains).

But in the Netherlands (don't know about Denmark) you have to pay to take your bike on the train. The revenue could be used to provide better facilities on the train, and more secure storage at stations.

 

[al78]

I've not had a problem with tip-up seats. On Southern trains the space is (just) larger enough to tie a bike in the space when one of the seats is in use.

Secure cycle parking at stations would be a good idea, although I can't see it happening on a large scale. I don't know why a pump is needed. Anyone using a bicycle where a breakdown would involve significant inconvenience should bring the tools required too, at the very least, fix a puncture (it really isn't difficult), or bodge a temporary repair that will get them home. Using a bicycle and not being able to repair a puncture is asking for a long walk home.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've not had a problem with tip-up seats. On Southern trains the space is (just) larger enough to tie a bike in the space when one of the seats is in use.

Secure cycle parking at stations would be a good idea, although I can't see it happening on a large scale. I don't know why a pump is needed. Anyone using a bicycle where a breakdown would involve significant inconvenience should bring the tools required too, at the very least, fix a puncture (it really isn't difficult), or bodge a temporary repair that will get them home. Using a bicycle and not being able to repair a puncture is asking for a long walk home.

What you want is Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres. I would use nothing else.

If you get a puncture it means they've worn too much and it's time for new ones. That might mean a taxi/walk every year or two if that. Unless they're bald, or you have a road bike with very narrow wheels and go down a hole and get a pinch flat, you simply don't get punctures.

 

[All Line Rover]

Last time nobody claimed ownership promptly, I just moved it out of the way and put it on the platform.

And if the cyclist is using the toilet? They're hardly going to take their bike in there, are they?

 

[Johncleesefan]

I remember a driver at my depot one day in a 158, a bike got placed in the vestibule behind his cab. He got out and asked the bloke to move it to the bike space to which the bloke got in his face and confrontational. The driver proceeded back into his cab and just before the hustler alarm went he got back out and launched the bike back onto the platform and then it was bye bye bike