Full size bikes on trains

[stut]

But in the Netherlands (don't know about Denmark) you have to pay to take your bike on the train. The revenue could be used to provide better facilities on the train, and more secure storage at stations.

Indeed so. You pay in Denmark too, except on the Copenhagen S-Trains, where it's free. Paid subscriptions to secure storage could ring-fence the spending, though - I would be cynical that our TOCs would necessarily do so.

 

[stut]

Secure cycle parking at stations would be a good idea, although I can't see it happening on a large scale. I don't know why a pump is needed. Anyone using a bicycle where a breakdown would involve significant inconvenience should bring the tools required too, at the very least, fix a puncture (it really isn't difficult), or bodge a temporary repair that will get them home. Using a bicycle and not being able to repair a puncture is asking for a long walk home.

This kind of attitude is symptomatic of why cycling struggles to make it into the mainstream in this country.

Couple of things. Yes, I have Schwalbe Marathons. They're a mixed blessing. They do keep most puncture sources out, but when you do get a puncture, they are a pain in the backside to get off, and even worse to get back on again, they're so tight. And yes, I did say "most" - they do pretty well in town, but out on the byways, they're useless against thorns and other such irritants. I speak from years of experience

However... If we are to encourage utility cycling, you can't expect everybody to be happy to repair a puncture or replace an inner tube on every occasion. First of all, slow punctures are a pain to locate. Secondly, look around the Netherlands or Denmark: people are just in their work clothes or whatever they are wearing that day. No dressing up. So getting coated in road muck, oil and rubber dust isn't an appealing prospect. Plus, if you're going to keep a bike at the station, a low-maintenance model is recommended, and hub gears are the preferred type in those parts. Ever tried to remove the rear wheel on a hub?

If you're going to have a bike you never take home, having somewhere you can get the little things tended to, whether it's a slow puncture, a strange clicking noise you heard on the way home, a misaligned mudguard, a stretched gear cable, whatever... It's really, really useful. At major commuter hubs, these places pay for themselves.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Couple of things. Yes, I have Schwalbe Marathons. They're a mixed blessing. They do keep most puncture sources out, but when you do get a puncture, they are a pain in the backside to get off, and even worse to get back on again, they're so tight. And yes, I did say "most" - they do pretty well in town, but out on the byways, they're useless against thorns and other such irritants. I speak from years of experience

No, you want Marathon Plus. They are very good against thorns. As you say, regular Marathons are not.

 

[sefton]

And if the cyclist is using the toilet? They're hardly going to take their bike in there, are they?

Tough. They shouldn't have left it blocking the door.

 

[stut]

No, you want Marathon Plus. They are very good against thorns. As you say, regular Marathons are not.

Now you've got me wondering. I'll have to check what's on there!

 

[yorkie]

I remember a driver at my depot one day in a 158, a bike got placed in the vestibule behind his cab. He got out and asked the bloke to move it to the bike space to which the bloke got in his face and confrontational. The driver proceeded back into his cab and just before the hustler alarm went he got back out and launched the bike back onto the platform and then it was bye bye bike

Unwise. I do a job which involves occasionally dealing with people who get confrontational, so I understand how frustrating it can be at times, but I would not put my job at risk by reacting in such a way, and would encourage anyone in such a position in their workplace to handle the situation calmly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now you've got me wondering. I'll have to check what's on there!

Might be worth it - I had regular Marathons once and did get thorn punctures quite regularly (the MK Redways are really bad for it) - switched back to Plus and none for over a year (none since I fitted them, in fact, and I trust them enough that I don't think I've just tempted fate ). They aren't much more expensive either, though they are similarly difficult to fit.

They aren't the absolute cheapest (not extortionate either), but they really are the best I have used.

 

[jon0844]

Unwise. I do a job which involves occasionally dealing with people who get confrontational, so I understand how frustrating it can be at times, but I would not put my job at risk by reacting in such a way, and would encourage anyone in such a position in their workplace to handle the situation calmly.

A driver back in the Wagn days heard arguing in first class (365), came out to tell them to calm down, got abuse from one man and promptly manhandled him off the train and that was that.

It was the 0140 (last train) and fortunately before most people had cameras, let alone the means to film and get the driver sacked on YouTube. Instead, people cheered.

Sadly doing that today would not likely end well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've seen (I think about 5 years ago) a ScotRail guard (a fairly slightly built woman, too) chase a fare dodger off the train and out of the station! They're made of sterner stuff up there.

 

[BurtonM]

Well exactly. Whoever thought "let's put tip-up seats in the cycle space so we can create needless conflict between cyclists and other passengers" wants shooting. Whoever subsequently thought that TPE class 185s (which have this fault) would be ideal for Manchester Airpost services, where most travellers seem to be competing to see who can bring the biggest suitcase with them, wants shooting twice!

As I've mentioned on other cyclist-bashing threads, cycles take up far less space when stored vertically so carriages should be designed so that the cycle space is a) vertical and b) impractical to use for sitting or storing luggage. Possibly the only decent aspect of Cross Country's Voyagers is that they do have vertical cycle spaces and as a consequence it's rare to see anything but bikes in them!

I agree. Tip up seats in cycle and wheelchair spaces, and dual purpose cycle and wheelchair spaces, are a bad idea.

I echo these sentiments. I'm a cycle courier and get the train to and from work to cut 20 miles off my day and save energy. The amount of problems I have with the cycle space on 185s is unbelievable. TPE have basically given people like me the finger anyway with that mandatory cycle reservation policy they want to bring in so I might have to give them a miss in future.
Luckily I have the option of using Northern but it's pot luck whether you get a guard van 150/Pacer (good), 156 (good space but poor access on/off the train thanks to bulkheads), or an ex-LM 150 (space too small to fit a bike; get stuck in vestibule - before now on one of these I've had the guard instruct me not to put a bike in the actual space it's that bad).

 

[221129]

Unwise. I do a job which involves occasionally dealing with people who get confrontational, so I understand how frustrating it can be at times, but I would not put my job at risk by reacting in such a way, and would encourage anyone in such a position in their workplace to handle the situation calmly.

Indeed. The correct answer is to refuse to move the train until it is moved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't understand why anyone has an issue with mandatory cycle reservation provided it can, like on VTWC, be done pretty much right up to departure. Indeed, I'd prefer it and would happily pay a fee for it.

 

[BurtonM]

Added inconvenice. I'm a commuter. I don't want to have to do that twice a day.
And I object to paying for something that's always been free.

 

[Hellfire]

Isn't the basic problem that trains are just not designed to carry bikes, they are designed to carry passengers.

 

[yorkie]

Isn't the basic problem that trains are just not designed to carry bikes, they are designed to carry passengers.

Good trains are designed to carry passengers and - to some extent - their luggage, which includes bikes. Some of the suitcases you see on Airport services take up the space of two bikes!

 

[Hellfire]

Good trains are designed to carry passengers and - to some extent - heir luggage, which includes bikes. Some of the suitcases you see on Airport services take up the space of two bikes!

Good trains Yorkie. We don't have many of them up North

 

[bb21]

Today was a bit different. Nobody laid claim to owning the bike - that was until I attempted to move it. 'That's my bike!, don't touch my bike'. I was now villain #1. Horrible. It upset me more than it should.

You are perfectly entitled to do that as it is a safety hazard. Imagine if the train caught fire and people in First Class compartment needing to escape but the door blocked by the bike.

I have thrown cyclists off the train before for refusing to remove a blockage and move it to a more appropriate location, but equally I have told someone to get a grip when he complained about a fellow passenger with a bike for a nonsensical matter.

A bit of common sense is all that is required, but some people only live in their own little world. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you.

 

[Silver Cobra]

There used to be regulations about full size bikes on peak time trains, but this does not appear to be the case now. I don't understand why this reg. has been gradually eroded.

I've found the policy with regards to non-folding/full size bikes on Great Northern's website, in case you are interested:

https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/travel-information/on-board/bringing-a-bike

When we can't carry non-folding bikes
To make sure there is space for all our passengers at times when our trains are busiest, we don’t allow non-folding bikes:

• at any time between Drayton Park and Moorgate. This is for safety reasons and complies with Transport for London’s policy of not permitting non-folding bicycles on the London Underground lines shown on the attached map; Highbury & Islington, Old Street and Moorgate stations are all managed by London Underground.
• on trains south of Stevenage or Hertford North timed to arrive in London between 07:00 and 09:30 Monday to Friday, except on public holidays
• on trains timed to leave London between 16:00 and 19:00 Monday to Friday, except on public holidays
• on trains that are timed to leave Ely or Waterbeach or Cambridge North towards Cambridge between 07:45 and 08:45 Monday to Friday, except on public holidays

You can take a bike with you at any time between Stevenage and Hertford North.

If you’re bringing your bike on the train, please don’t lock it to any part of the train or leave it unattended.

 

[30907]

Added inconvenice. I'm a commuter. I don't want to have to do that twice a day.
And I object to paying for something that's always been free.

It doesn't affect the present discussion, but for your information, free carriage of cycles (initially on a reservation-only basis, I still have tickets from my first trip) was introduced in the mid 70s. Prior to that, they went at half fare IIRC.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It doesn't affect the present discussion, but for your information, free carriage of cycles (initially on a reservation-only basis, I still have tickets from my first trip) was introduced in the mid 70s. Prior to that, they went at half fare IIRC.

They were still chargeable on Regional Railways in the 1990s at one point.

 

[Hadders]

The new 12-car class 700 trains have doors that lead directly into the 1st class compartment. Not sure what the arrangement is on the 8-car variant but problem potentially solved if your train becomes a 700 in the future.

 

[InOban]

I know it's never enforced, but isn't there technically a luggage limit also? Clearly the TOCs will be quite happy to remove seats and install extra bike spaces and luggage racks if alteration will be revenue neutral.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know it's never enforced, but isn't there technically a luggage limit also?

There is (basically 2 large pieces and one small), but almost nobody goes anywhere near it, the vast majority have only one case, or at most two if going for a flight. It therefore isn't really ever enforced, and TOCs generally don't even mention it, e.g. VTWC just ask you not to bring more than you can carry.

 

[infobleep]

One evening within the last month there was two bikes on the train leaning against the door. Now I decided to move down the platform slightly to board the train unaware of any bikes being inside train or where they might be. I think it was still within the bikes are not allowed period too. I saw them leant against the door but decided I could deal with them when boarding so did. Once I opened the doors and started to make sure they didn't fall out, someone quickly came over to deal with them.

I can only assume they entered on the other side at a pervious station and didn't think about the train doors opening on the opposite side. Once I was in they put the bikes back against the door.

 

[2dmuppet]

Many thanks to everybody who have contributed to my initial thread. It has certainly provoked an interesting discussion.

Sadly, same thing again this morning - three bikes deep - couldn't get in the compartment. Had to ask people to move them (one of them was the same person as yesterday).

Then they put the bikes back, trapping us in the compartment (it doesn't take much to jam the door mechanism).

It's like trying to reason with a brick wall. No empathy on display. State of the world etc etc.....

It is Friday though. Excellent!

 

[Failed Unit]

Many thanks to everybody who have contributed to my initial thread. It has certainly provoked an interesting discussion.

Sadly, same thing again this morning - three bikes deep - couldn't get in the compartment. Had to ask people to move them (one of them was the same person as yesterday).

Then they put the bikes back, trapping us in the compartment (it doesn't take much to jam the door mechanism).

It's like trying to reason with a brick wall. No empathy on display. State of the world etc etc.....

It is Friday though. Excellent!

To be honest I would write to great northern as this is actually a safety issue.

They may put someone on that train as it seems a common pattern. If they do nothing use the safety angle to take it further.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Isn't there a general issue around this whole subject. Passenger numbers have increased substantially but at the same time public transport to many stations (certainly outside major conurbations) has not improved and in many cases as actually deteriorated. Many passengers have resorted to driving however in many cases station car parks are too small and/or too expensive so drivers dont want to use them. This leads to roads near stations being clogged with cars and complaints from residents and road users.

At the same time there is an increase in environmental awareness and promotion of the fact that one should not use the car for short journeys.

An ideal solution is therefore to cycle to the station. However the problem then becomes what to do with your bicycle. Many stations do have cycle parking, but with many stations being unmanned for all or part of the day, and a general lack of police there is a reluctance to use them. Leaving aside the fact that its often quite handy (or essential) to take your bicycle with you.

The problem then becomes that trains are not designed with bicycles in mind. They may have an area for a few cycles on them, but there is no way in most cases whilst you are standing on the platform of knowing where that area is.

You therefore end up with bicycles in the vestibules, and at this point everything becomes a bit give and take because bicycles dont really fir in a vestibule.

However there is an environmental benefit to us all of them being on the train because otherwise they'll potentially be on the back of a car.

 

[al78]

This kind of attitude is symptomatic of why cycling struggles to make it into the mainstream in this country.

Cycling will struggle in the UK because I recommend being as self sufficient as possible. What a bizarre claim.

There isn't a cycling equivalent of the AA*, and unlike a car, a bicycle is a simple machine, so yes I do advocate that anyone cycling regul;arly should learn at least the basics of roadside repair. My cycle commute is 10 miles each way on country lanes, if I have a mechanical problem I can't repair I have little option other than a long walk home (which has happened once).

Cycle commuting won't be mainstream for a variety of reasons. Firstly, the perception it is dangerous. Secondly, the perception that it is not possible to dress appropriately for the weather, thirdly, it does suck sometimes, fourthly, it requires physical effort, and why bother when you have a combustion engine to do the work, and finally, it is something you have to be interested in. One thing that somewhat irritatres me are the enthusiasts who aggressively push cycling because they can't comprehend why someone would not prefer it to driving (because they are egocentric). If you come across someone like that, just ask them if they would prefer to rent an allotment and grow their own veg instead of using a supermarket.

*The closest I've seen is a service which will pick you up and transport you home or to the nearest railway station, whichever is closer, but that is not the same as fixing the problem at the roadside.

 

[Harpers Tate]

What you want is Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres..

Or, better still, Tannus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or, better still, Tannus.

Are those any good? I've always thought there was a reason that not a single motor vehicle has solid tyres.