Furloughed / Self Employed Workers Discussion

[Bantamzen]

Following some discussions with family members on the issue, I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread specifically on the issues arising for workers currently furloughed by the crisis, and for the self employed.

One family member yesterday asked me when they might expect to receive their furloughed pay, as their employer had indicated that it might be well into May or even June before they would get anything. My impression was that HMRC had the intention of issuing grants to employers by the end of April. But digging a little deeper into the gov.uk site there doesn't seem to be any real detail on how & when these will be processed. Obviously this is going to be of great concern to many, as an awful lot of workers are now going without pay & many will have little or no capital to back them up. So should the government be doing more to clarify the situation and reassure workers?

 

[Andrew S]

Have they asked their employer? Anyone who has been furloughed is still employed, so will be paid through their normal payroll. I am furloughed, and am being paid (80%) on my normal pay dates.

 

[Bantamzen]

Have they asked their employer? Anyone who has been furloughed is still employed, so will be paid through their normal payroll. I am furloughed, and am being paid (80%) on my normal pay dates.

Yes they have, it was their employer that told them they would not be paid until the grants were received.

 

[thejuggler]

It is rare grants are paid upfront. If the employer thinks the Government will simply send a payment for thousands of pounds once the system is up and running they may need to give their heads a shake and keep on top of the emerging HMRC guidance.

The Government will probably need evidence the employee has been paid the money before reimbursing the company, so the approach of paying the 80% wage as normal is probably the best way of going about it.

 

[Iskra]

I'm furloughed for 8 weeks but getting paid as normal. My only concern is what happens after the 8 weeks is up if the situation means we can't go back to work. But relatively speaking, I'm in a pretty good place essentially having paid time off at the moment.

 

[westv]

Am I the only one who had to look up the word "furlough"?

 

[3rd rail land]

It is rare grants are paid upfront. If the employer thinks the Government will simply send a payment for thousands of pounds once the system is up and running they may need to give their heads a shake and keep on top of the emerging HMRC guidance.

The Government will probably need evidence the employee has been paid the money before reimbursing the company, so the approach of paying the 80% wage as normal is probably the best way of going about it.

What if the employer does not have the funds available to pay the 80% wages up front due to much reduced/no revenue coming in?

 

[Ploughman]

Are there many manufacturing firms still working normally?
I do 2 days a week part time for an automotive electrical firm and currently working normally.
Small firm and no problems with keeping distances.

 

[Dai Corner]

What if the employer does not have the funds available to pay the 80% wages up front due to much reduced/no revenue coming in?

They can take out a business interruption loan

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...coronavirus-business-interruption-loan-scheme

Support for businesses through the Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme
The temporary Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme supports SMEs with access to loans, overdrafts, invoice finance and asset finance of up to £5 million and for up to 6 years.

The government will also make a Business Interruption Payment to cover the first 12 months of interest payments and any lender-levied fees, so smaller businesses will benefit from no upfront costs and lower initial repayments.

The government will provide lenders with a guarantee of 80% on each loan (subject to pre-lender cap on claims) to give lenders further confidence in continuing to provide finance to SMEs. The scheme will be delivered through commercial lenders, backed by the government-owned British Business Bank.

There are 40 accredited lenders able to

 

[Meerkat]

Have they asked their employer? Anyone who has been furloughed is still employed, so will be paid through their normal payroll. I am furloughed, and am being paid (80%) on my normal pay dates.

Why are you only being paid 80%? Unless you agree otherwise I thought the employer was supposed to pay as per contract and they had to cover the 20%?

 

[thejuggler]

80% to £2500 is Government grant, anything above this is at employers discretion.

 

[Meerkat]

80% to £2500 is Government grant, anything above this is at employers discretion.

How so, is furlough a legal way of voiding an employment contract?
It’s a bit irrelevant as few would choose redundancy instead but surely the employer can’t reduce your pay by 20% without agreement?

 

[Dai Corner]

How so, is furlough a legal way of voiding an employment contract?
It’s a bit irrelevant as few would choose redundancy instead but surely the employer can’t reduce your pay by 20% without agreement?

Not if you're working, obviously. It wasn't that unusual for people to be laid off without any pay 'back in the day'

 

[ComUtoR]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

Guidance
Claim for your employee’s wages through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme
Find out if you’re eligible and how much you can claim to cover wages for employees on temporary leave (“furlough”) due to coronavirus (COVID-19).

 

[Andrew S]

Yes they have, it was their employer that told them they would not be paid until the grants were received.

Apologies. I've re-read your post and see that you did state that. I hope they get positive information soon.

 

[dgl]

I worked my last day for the foreseeable on Thursday, disinfecting, removing rubbish and removing linen from caravans at work, the last guests having left the previous Friday. Luckily the company has some spare cash (70mil iirc) to pay us our contracted hours for the moment so even if government money is delayed I will still get paid, trust me I feel very lucky.
Admittedly if it hadn't been for lockdown conditions I would still be working doing whatever is required (Painting, cleaning, clearing litter, PAT testing Etc.) and that would have kept me busy, at least and would have been much preferred to staying at home.

Let's just hope this situation ends sooner rather than later, not only so my employer doesn't lose their most profitable part of the year but also as the outdoor pool is gorgeous in the summer, and I want to be there, not getting bored at home!

 

[edwin_m]

The Observer today was suggesting that our fruit would go to waste if we didn't fly in the usual pickers from Eastern Europe. But the Times yesterday made the suggestion (more sensible in my view) that some of the many furloughed workers would be happy to do this as long as they could retain their 80% pay and right to return to the original job.

 

[Mag_seven]

Am I the only one who had to look up the word "furlough"?

No you are not - it (and the term "furloughed") is certainly a new word in my lexicon!

 

[theblackwatch]

No you are not - it (and the term "furloughed") is certainly a new word in my lexicon!

Me too. At first I thought it was something to do with distances of horse racing!

 

[Bantamzen]

The Observer today was suggesting that our fruit would go to waste if we didn't fly in the usual pickers from Eastern Europe. But the Times yesterday made the suggestion (more sensible in my view) that some of the many furloughed workers would be happy to do this as long as they could retain their 80% pay and right to return to the original job.

It is true that many farmers are worried that they will not have the labour resources for the harvests, some of which are imminent. There is some call from them for people to apply to farms to seek temporary employer, and there is even a special web site set up to assist with this (link below):

http://hopslaboursolutions.com/seasonal-work/

Whether or not people respond is another matter, because it will require travel, working in whatever conditions each day brings, and of course there will be some contact with other people working on the farm.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I'm furloughed for 8 weeks but getting paid as normal. My only concern is what happens after the 8 weeks is up if the situation means we can't go back to work. But relatively speaking, I'm in a pretty good place essentially having paid time off at the moment.

We were laid off after last week, and were told full pay for March then 80% for April and May. I’m guessing it will be extended though if things not back to normal. But best to tell us to come back to work in June now and extend it, than to say come back in August but cut it short!

 

[Iskra]

We were laid off after last week, and were told full pay for March then 80% for April and May. I’m guessing it will be extended though if things not back to normal. But best to tell us to come back to work in June now and extend it, than to say come back in August but cut it short!

We've not been told what happens after the end of the 100% pay bit, but considering our 100% pay was announced before the govt announced its 80% bit, hopefully they've instead taken up the govt on their offer throughout now and can afford to top up to 100% for longer if needed. The cost wouldn't be anymore than they originally planned? If it gets to a point I get made redundant at the end of furlough I've got a decent length of service and it could be good to make me do something different.

We were never told an end date, just that we can be called back at as little as 24hrs notice.

- - - - - - - - - -

For those who haven't heard of furlough, it's an American thing. Very glad it exists right now though!

 

[scotrail158713]

The Observer today was suggesting that our fruit would go to waste if we didn't fly in the usual pickers from Eastern Europe. But the Times yesterday made the suggestion (more sensible in my view) that some of the many furloughed workers would be happy to do this as long as they could retain their 80% pay and right to return to the original job.

Maybe we could use any senior school pupils who fancy a bit of money whilst there’s no school? After all, their exams have been cancelled so they’ll not exactly be doing much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe we could use any senior school pupils who fancy a bit of money whilst there’s no school? After all, their exams have been cancelled so they’ll not exactly be doing much.

I think they're not overly helping that they are applying the usual process for recruitment.

Perhaps the Government could actually help by exempting it from income tax so they can pay "cash in hand"[1] for that sort of casual work? I'd happily go down and do a weekend if it's needed that much. Not to avoid the tax, but to keep it simple. Perhaps each farm could pay a simple one off payment to allow this.

[1] "Electronic money in bank account" doesn't have the same ring to it

 

[PHILIPE]

No you are not - it (and the term "furloughed") is certainly a new word in my lexicon!

When I was in he Army in the 50s a Furlough was Leave.

 

[Bantamzen]

I think they're not overly helping that they are applying the usual process for recruitment.

Perhaps the Government could actually help by exempting it from income tax so they can pay "cash in hand"[1] for that sort of casual work? I'd happily go down and do a weekend if it's needed that much. Not to avoid the tax, but to keep it simple. Perhaps each farm could pay a simple one off payment to allow this.

[1] "Electronic money in bank account" doesn't have the same ring to it

Once upon a time, it was very common practice for local people to chip in with helping the farmers, and in return they got a share of it. Indeed having family in rural Cheshire, I have on occasion when visiting been roped in to helping with harvests.

 

[Dai Corner]

Maybe we could use any senior school pupils who fancy a bit of money whilst there’s no school? After all, their exams have been cancelled so they’ll not exactly be doing much.

I have heard it said that the original reason for the 6 week school summer holiday was to allow children to help with the harvest.

 

[Ploughman]

When I was in he Army in the 50s a Furlough was Leave.

In railway terms a "Furlong " is 10 chains = 8 Furlongs = a mile

Seem to be getting into Track Quality eighths.

 

[Meerkat]

Re Fruit picking.... very hard to organise social distancing for that - don’t they normally put people up in caravans and huts, lots of people sharing facilities?

 

[Bantamzen]

Re Fruit picking.... very hard to organise social distancing for that - don’t they normally put people up in caravans and huts, lots of people sharing facilities?

Not necessarily, however people will be likely working in groups outdoors.