Further RMT strike action on SWR [latest action suspended]

[Twotwo]

It is a good deal but a little double edged.

The Basic Salary will be £67k in 2022 but to achieve the £72k you state you have to be at a London depot, includes their top rate London weighting (Regional Allowance) and a retention bonus.

I'd be interested to see what the impact of a retention rate is in the long term.

I very much doubt their London depot drivers will be moving to other London tocs now. I know they've lost a lot of drivers at Waterloo to overground and mtr crossrail.

 

[LowLevel]

When will ASLEF realise that their insular nature and approach does have a impact on other grades and does more to create division than unite.

They do realise - unfortunately they don't have the war chest that the RMT does, despite representing one grade of well paid individuals ASLEF itself is extremely vulnerable to being destroyed financially if it puts it's foot wrong even once and gets cleaned out by a TOC in court. The RMT on the other hand has many millions at it's disposal and can afford to be slightly more risky with it's actions.

However as far as I can tell most drivers I know spend most of their time complaining about ASLEF stitching them up with dodgy deals and agreements, either being divisive with their referendums or not bothering and just agreeing things if they think it would cause dissent. It wouldn't be the way I would want my union to operate.

 

[Carlisle]

'The RMT on the other hand has many millions at it's disposal and can afford to be slightly more risky with it's actions.

Why then did the RMT reportedly have to borrow from Unite in order to pay the wages of each SWR guard participating in the recent month long strike ?

 

[LowLevel]

Why then did the RMT reportedly have to borrow from Unite in order to pay the wages of each SWR guard participating in the recent month long strike ?

I have no idea. The balance sheet and accounts of the trade union is a matter of public record, a quick google will find you some recent returns to the Government.

 

[TEW]

I believe that drivers will expected to be more flexible, at the moment start time of shifts can be moved by up to 2 hours with 36 hours notice, this will probably increase, they also lose their attendance bonus, I’m sure ASLEF drivers may be along shortly to clarify. There was a 4 page summary and 17 page detailed document.

No changes to the spare movement, still up to 2 hours with 36 hours notice. They haven't really had to sell any conditions, other than committing to being in control of the doors on all stock where the technology allows. Some minor changes regarding time allow to prep trains, but that's about it really.

 

[pompeyfan]

No changes to the spare movement, still up to 2 hours with 36 hours notice. They haven't really had to sell any conditions, other than committing to being in control of the doors on all stock where the technology allows. Some minor changes regarding time allow to prep trains, but that's about it really.

thank you for clarifying. I’m aware there’s also some changes to PNB and 20 minutes cab breaks etc.

how likely do you think it is for diesel work to be cross covered between GWR and SWR? Especially as GWR Fratton no longer sign 158s? I’m trying to work our where this arrangement could come in use? I assume Exeter GWR drivers could drive to Yeovil and maybe a Salisbury SWR driver could go to Bristol and back?

 

[vikingdriver]

thank you for clarifying. I’m aware there’s also some changes to PNB and 20 minutes cab breaks etc.

how likely do you think it is for diesel work to be cross covered between GWR and SWR? Especially as GWR Fratton no longer sign 158s? I’m trying to work our where this arrangement could come in use? I assume Exeter GWR drivers could drive to Yeovil and maybe a Salisbury SWR driver could go to Bristol and back?

I imagine it is mostly for the future, for whatever replaces the 158/9 fleet etc.

 

[387star]

thank you for clarifying. I’m aware there’s also some changes to PNB and 20 minutes cab breaks etc.

how likely do you think it is for diesel work to be cross covered between GWR and SWR? Especially as GWR Fratton no longer sign 158s? I’m trying to work our where this arrangement could come in use? I assume Exeter GWR drivers could drive to Yeovil and maybe a Salisbury SWR driver could go to Bristol and back?

Only new drivers don't sign 158s by which I mean the seven trainees currently in the system. A few qualifieds came over but at least two still sign them although one never got to sign 150s!

 

[TEW]

thank you for clarifying. I’m aware there’s also some changes to PNB and 20 minutes cab breaks etc.

how likely do you think it is for diesel work to be cross covered between GWR and SWR? Especially as GWR Fratton no longer sign 158s? I’m trying to work our where this arrangement could come in use? I assume Exeter GWR drivers could drive to Yeovil and maybe a Salisbury SWR driver could go to Bristol and back?

The changes to the breaks mean more favourable terms for the drivers though. The 20 minute cab breaks are removed and all PNBs must be between the third and sixth hour.

The consensus seems to be that the agreement for other TOC drivers driving SWR services will never be implemented, it's a time limited agreement from June 2020 to May 2021. The purpose seems to be more for Suburban routes to release drivers for 701 training than for country depots, using surplus GWR or Crossrail drivers in the London area. But given the short timescales and the route and traction training that would be needed, it does seem unlikely it would be used.

 

[ainsworth74]

We are not going to be going ten rounds of panto like "Drivers are overpaid!", "Oh no they're not!", "Oh yes they are!", repeat ad nauseam. And we are particularly not going to be doing it on this thread which is about the RMT dispute with SWR. The ASLEF deal clearly has some relevance but we do not need to get sidetracked into a lengthy and fractious back on forth on drivers salaries.

 

[Horizon22]

i completely disagree with that approach, but I could see it being very popular for those that want to see operational duties removed from the guards grade for the reasons you state. in the current climate there would be no sympathy but I’d also be very concerned this is the thin edge of the wedge and ultimately would be a CSA job with the pay that goes with it.

admittedly however, the doom mongers (myself included) have so far been proved to be incorrect about the rumoured decrease in T&Cs and remuneration for Southerns OBS. I’m led to believe they’re on effectively £18ph once you work out their annual salary divided by average weekly hours. Does that compare similarly to Scotrail’s TTE?

OBSs can be on £40K basic.

 

[pompeyfan]

OBSs can be on £40K basic.

How come you say ‘can be’? does the £40k include regional allowances? Surely the basic salary is the basic salary? Any enhancements are just that?

 

[Horizon22]

How come you say ‘can be’? does the £40k include regional allowances? Surely the basic salary is the basic salary? Any enhancements are just that?

Suppose I was including a London allowance inside it. I don't remember the exact figures anymore.

 

[pompeyfan]

Suppose I was including a London allowance inside it. I don't remember the exact figures anymore.

sorry that probably came across quite aggressive, which it wasn’t meant to be.

 

[the sniper]

admittedly however, the doom mongers (myself included) have so far been proved to be incorrect about the rumoured decrease in T&Cs and remuneration for Southerns OBS. I’m led to believe they’re on effectively £18ph once you work out their annual salary divided by average weekly hours. Does that compare similarly to Scotrail’s TTE?

They were never going to touch them again in the short term. Every time the franchise is renewed is where the risk lies. With no operational responsibility, they're only ever one pay deal away from being radically 'reorganised' or eliminated. The situation will be out of their hands. £18ph+ is a lot to pay a large number of glorified TTEs...

 

[ainsworth74]

We're still going onto terrain which is purely to do with ASLEF and their members and their leadership. This thread is about the RMT and their ongoing dispute with SWR. The ASLEF deal is, seemingly, going to go ahead so this thread needs to move onto matters relating to the RMT and their members and their dispute with SWR. If members do wish to discuss the ASLEF deal with SWR or other matters relating to driver relations on SWR please use the existing thread which you can find here to do so (with thanks to the member that pointed it out to me). The Forum has plenty of capacity to discuss different things on different threads.

Thank you in advance,
ainsworth74

 

[kw12]

Have SWR invited the RMT to fresh talks (or vice versa) following the decision by the drivers?

 

[pompeyfan]

Have SWR invited the RMT to fresh talks (or vice versa) following the decision by the drivers?

Positive talks held today with further talks pencilled in for 10 days time. I assume it’s all over video conferencing at the moment.